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You have rebelliously disobeyed the Creator of the universe. You have offended God. What possible even partial payment could be made for such an offence?
The OP question is flawed and judging from the fist page of answers that I just read has managed to confuse a lot of people.
It is very much like that riddle where something is bought after borrowing money. The changed is shared out but it doesn't add up to the original amount of cash.
There are separate issues getting confused. I am sorry if I do not have the correct words.
That does not "pay" for anything, the debt your sins have created is beyond "payment", but can be forgiven.Repentance and remission of sins.
Sins can only be forgiven, atonement is not a payment system.Yes. What payment is needed when sin is remitted?
Jesus never said his death was an atoning sacrifice or some sort of payment. That speculation came later in the new Gospel about Jesus.Okay, this is one that vexes me.
If the price of sin is either eternal death, or eternal suffering in the lake of fire (depending on which interpretation you go with), and Jesus paid the full price of sin, why then is Jesus not either:
1) eternally dead
2) waiting to go into the lake of fire for all eternity
If the price of sin is either eternal death, or eternal suffering in the lake of fire (as I said, depending on which interpretation you go with), and Jesus paid the FULL price of sin, he should then be in one of those two conditions.
The only reason I can think that he would not be in one of those conditions is if:
a) he did not pay the full price of sin but was let off part of the bill (cue track playing opening chords of O Fortuna)
b) The Father chooses to end the sentence of sin prematurely (which opens the gates to a potential universalism as regards salvation - ie: all end up being saved in the end)
It CANNOT be that Jesus gets a reduced sentence on account of being sinless, as that would mean he does not pay the FULL price of sin.
Thoughts?
Both. The first or there would be no resurrection, the second, or there would be no eternal life.So, which of the two deaths did Jesus pay the price for mankind?
What is a ransom sacrifice ?Sins can only be forgiven, atonement is not a payment system.
Opinion then, nothing more.I prefaced everything by stating this was not in the canon.
Uh huh! Do you suppose that God, who gave us the scriptures in the first place, was not capable of ensuring that the books He wanted in the Bible got in the canon? And that despite God's best efforts some books that He wanted in the canon got left out? I wonder what other mistakes and failures God had?As I said, this is non-canonical.
Where do you find in the OT where they 'wounded' the offering before being sacrificed?
It is in the Bible. Look it up.Where do you find Jesus took all the sins of mankind to hell?
The ransom (Jesus cruel torture, humiliation, and murder) is the ransom payment. Jesus, Paul, Peter, John and the writer of Hebrew all describe the atonement sacrifice as a literal ransom payment and not "like" a ransom payment.What is a ransom sacrifice ?
Uh huh! Do you suppose that God, who gave us the scriptures in the first place, was not capable of ensuring that the books He wanted in the Bible got in the canon? And that despite God's best efforts some books that He wanted in the canon got left out? I wonder what other mistakes and failures God had?
He was wounded because he was hated. Just like the OT said he would be in Isaiah.What was Jesus wounded for?
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