why irresistiable grace

[dogs4thewin]

Why will God not let people leave that is not true love.

 

[Eddie L]

Why will God not let people leave that is not true love.

Because those whose hearts are indwelt by the Holy Spirit will not want to leave. That's what regeneration is for. It gives people hearts that truly see the beauty of Christ and have a heartfelt desire for Him. If a person is still in bondage to lies enough to turn their back on the real beauty of Christ, then the heart has never been set free.

The desire and love for Christ demonstrates a real freedom, and that freedom is purchased by the blood of Christ.

 

[JM]

Why will God not let people leave that is not true love.

What Eddie wrote is true.

When a person is born again (regenerated) they come to find God irresistible. When a Calvinists uses the term irresistible grace we refer to the idea found in scripture that God's grace will conqueror our rebellious nature because He loves us.

John Piper - Irresistible grace - YouTube

 

[Clare73]

Why will God not let people leave that is not true love.

"Irrestible" grace usually refers to salvation, not preservation.

In the faith,
Clare

 

[dogs4thewin]

but I would think that if people want to leave He would LET them.

 

[Eddie L]

but I would think that if people want to leave He would LET them.

You're missing our point. The freedom a believer has in Christ is what assures that he'd never want to leave. The believer has been freed to see an objective truth: the wonder of the gospel and the beauty of Christ. To fail to see that objective truth reveals that one is still blind. If one is not blind, there is no reason to want to leave.

Hypothetically, if anyone wanted to go to Hell, God would let them. Practically speaking, though, it is the Spirit's role in the salvation of a person to open their eyes to the objective reality of Jesus. Once we truly see Christ, there's no reason to want to leave Him. Where else would we go?

 

[dogs4thewin]

You're missing our point. The freedom a believer has in Christ is what assures that he'd never want to leave. The believer has been freed to see an objective truth: the wonder of the gospel and the beauty of Christ. To fail to see that objective truth reveals that one is still blind. If one is not blind, there is no reason to want to leave.

Hypothetically, if anyone wanted to go to Hell, God would let them. Practically speaking, though, it is the Spirit's role in the salvation of a person to open their eyes to the objective reality of Jesus. Once we truly see Christ, there's no reason to want to leave Him. Where else would we go?

Hell is the punishment for sin right and we are all sinners so therefore someone who wanted what they deserved would have no problem with Hell,

 

[Eddie L]

Hell is the punishment for sin right and we are all sinners so therefore someone who wanted what they deserved would have no problem with Hell,

But hell is the absence of the presence of God. Nobody who truly knows Jesus could ever want to be away from him.

 

[Eddie L]

Hell is the punishment for sin right and we are all sinners so therefore someone who wanted what they deserved would have no problem with Hell,

Emily,

Imagine a hypothetical person who truly feels the burden of their sin and truly understands what their sin has done to others, and then imagine that this person is in Hell. Not only are they lonely; not only are they miserable; not only is their existence completely free of love, joy, and peace; they are still guilty, and this hypothetical person STILL feels the burden of their sin and truly understands what their sin has done to others.

The only way that person could ever, ever have that burden lifted is through Jesus and His gospel. His work on the cross is the only path to peace. His forgiveness is the only relief there is for a person who realizes what they really deserve. No person but Jesus can pay in a way that redeems.

This redemption is not offered to people in Hell. It is no longer available there. The only time we have to find the peace of Jesus is now, while we're still among the living.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Emily,

Imagine a hypothetical person who truly feels the burden of their sin and truly understands what their sin has done to others, and then imagine that this person is in Hell. Not only are they lonely; not only are they miserable; not only is their existence completely free of love, joy, and peace; they are still guilty, and this hypothetical person STILL feels the burden of their sin and truly understands what their sin has done to others.

The only way that person could ever, ever have that burden lifted is through Jesus and His gospel. His work on the cross is the only path to peace. His forgiveness is the only relief there is for a person who realizes what they really deserve. No person but Jesus can pay in a way that redeems.

This redemption is not offered to people in Hell. It is no longer available there. The only time we have to find the peace of Jesus is now, while we're still among the living.

OK so if I realize I committed a crime could I not INSIST on going to prison? yes sir I could. If I started to live wrong KNOWING Christ WHY would He stop me. Free gift of grace. Let me asks you this the ring on my left hand from my late grandmother It was a free gift, however could I CHOOSE to sale it, pwan it, throw it away yes so if God's grace is a free gift why would it not work the same way. Also God gave us free will. if He calls us to do something He does NOT force it. Even if He punishes us He does NOT force us to obey Him.

 

[Eddie L]

What is punishment in Hell if not force?

 

[Eddie L]

OK so if I realize I committed a crime could I not INSIST on going to prison? yes sir I could.

Sure you could, but if you are truly one who is in Christ you would not want to spit in His face by having Him die for nothing.

If I started to live wrong KNOWING Christ WHY would He stop me.

Because you can't know Christ in an intimate sense (a spiritual sense) and reject Him. If one rejects Christ they are simply revealing their blindness.

Free gift of grace. Let me asks you this the ring on my left hand from my late grandmother It was a free gift, however could I CHOOSE to sale it, pwan it, throw it away yes so if God's grace is a free gift why would it not work the same way.

Because the free gift of grace is the missing link to what affects your desire to choose Christ. If the grace is given, you are now free to love Jesus. Love for Jesus reveals grace. Rejecting Jesus reveals bondage to sin.

 

[dogs4thewin]

so you do believe that people can choose. What is Hell if not force? well the person CHOSE that the whole time on Earth God forced nothing

 

[Clare73]

but I would think that if people want to leave He would LET them.

He would if they wanted to leave.

But none of them do.

No one wants a serious car accident, but they do want to be kept from/not allowed to have one.

No one wants to leave the fold, but they do want to be kept from actions that would cause
them to be excluded from the fold.

Being "kept" by the Good Shepherd is about preservation from danger, not about holding them against their will.

In the faith,
Clare

 

[dogs4thewin]

He would if they wanted to leave.

But none of them do.

No one wants a serious car accident, but they do want to be kept from/not allowed to have one.

No one wants to leave the fold, but they do want to be kept from actions that would cause
them to be excluded from the fold.

Being "kept" by the Good Shepherd is about preservation from danger, not about holding them against their will.

In the faith,
Clare

danger?

 

[Eddie L]

Emily,

Don't you think the Spirit has something to do with a believer's heart? WHY would a person who has the Spirit of Christ ever want to leave Him?

 

[dogs4thewin]

Emily,

Don't you think the Spirit has something to do with a believer's heart? WHY would a person who has the Spirit of Christ ever want to leave Him?

It just doesn't seem like real love, but I have trouble at times ACCEPTING grace.

 

[Eddie L]

It just doesn't seem like real love, but I have trouble at times ACCEPTING grace.

The real love we have is the love the Spirit produces in us. God doesn't leave US to try to produce love on our own. If he did, the best we could do would be some selfish counterfeit.

And we all struggle to accept grace. The pride in all of us wants to insist it is up to us.

Posting from a phone is hard!

 

[dogs4thewin]

The real love we have is the love the Spirit produces in us. God doesn't leave US to try to produce love on our own. If he did, the best we could do would be some selfish counterfeit.

And we all struggle to accept grace. The pride in all of us wants to insist it is up to us.

Posting from a phone is hard!

so if we do not want to accept grace (even though it is oftened_ why would God have us do it anyway?

 

[Eddie L]

so if we do not want to accept grace (even though it is oftened_ why would God have us do it anyway?

God changes our hearts, Emily, so that the pride that is our enemy is defeated. The final result of grace is that those God is saving want what God offers. God's saving love takes people that are enemies and turns them into friends.

Added for clarification...

If a person does not desire to love God today and does not want to be covered by the grace of the gospel, that person is either NOT BEING SAVED ever or is BEING SAVED but won't realize it until later. The evidence any of us have regarding whether or not we are among the saved is saving faith. That evidence is what justifies us calling ourselves Christian, both before God and to other people. God doesn't take people kicking and screaming into Heaven. His grace has either changed hearts so that they desire a relationship with Him or it hasn't. And if it hasn't, Hell is where one was headed and where that person will end up.