Why I'm Orthodox . . . and why others may want to be too.

[Benedicta00]

Um . . . it this a trick question? I guess He does. I mean, we must truly be contrite for breaking our marriage commitment, but God doesn't despise sinners, He shows them mercy. He is less of a legislator and more of a Loving Counselor in my understanding of Him. You keep asking for proof of my postion, but how many acts of mercy do we read of in the Bible. How many people did Jesus stone, because by the laws of God it was the "right" thing to do? Christ looked sympathetcially to our weaknesses. I believe that says it all. It doen't give us license to sin, so grace and mercy can about, but it reassures us that in the midst of our sin, He can forgive us, if we honestly repent.

Basil

He can and does forgive the sin but what dissolves marriage as it is taught to us in scripture? Not repentance but DEATH. The vow we take says until DEATH do us part.

 

[Greg the byzantine]

Catholic-Orthodox

Orthodox Pokes Catholic ..... Catholic pokes back back and forth back and forth they poke and poke and poke.

God

Don't you make me come down there

Catholic-Orthodox

oint fingers at each other: He started it.

 

[Iollain]

Yes that's what we are to strive for, however because of the fact there is another person in the marriage other than ones self, sometimes it does not work out that way.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Therese the Champion, at it again! *cue the lions roaring*

I'm sorry, but I dont remember it that way. I seem to remember Basil trying to talk about his church- which he also brought up the schism and such with the RCC- but I dont remember him making false claims. But maybe thats because I just dont think they're false...

Probably you don't think they are fasle . . . but they are negative statements and we have the right to ask for objective evidence to back them up . . . I don't think anyone has the right to keep posting negative statements about another's Church and Faith and not back them up, especially when requested, do you?

You've derailed this thread, Therese. Now I know why all these people PM me and tell me its easier if I just put you on my ignore list.

Please feel free to do just that.

If you are really going to conclude with this after every post, can you actually show it through your words? I see you bringing no peace to ANY of the threads you write in. I see you slicing through threads with a catholic machete, with anything uncatholic taking the full force of your fury.

If you are going to talk about peace, shouldnt you know something about it?

So, challenging people to substantiate their claims against Our Church and holding them accountable to doing so is wrong?

Tell me . . what kind of peace are you looking for?

One that is a "feel good" peace, the "good old boys club" type of peace?

A FALSE peace?



Or one that is based on truth?


Peace, TRUE peace is based on truth, it is found in seeking the truth, not a hiding from it. It is not merely a feeling.

TRUE peace cannot exist in the absence of truth, in the absence of a desire for truth.


I don't mean your type of peace, your "feel good" "good old boys" peace that takes comfort in others "feeling" the same way you do about a certian group of Christians, or one that is comforted by not being faced with the conflict that results from being held accountable for one's accusatoins and attacks against another's faith.

That is not peace, not TRUE peace.


I wish True peace to all . . . . this comes only with the truth.



Peace to all

 

[Zunalter]

I may just be in ignorance here...but HOW, exactly, is this debate pleasing to Christ and useful in building the kingdom?

 

[CaDan]

No, Terese. You are among the last people on this board I would ever have suspected of being a "Nine Commandment Christian" (a sarcastic phrase usually directed at Protestant fundamentalists meaning they dropped the one about bearing false witness, if you weren't aware).

But Basil started a thread to witness to why he had found a church home in Orthodoxy. In the course of that, he of course had to explain their claim to be the original church, from which everyone else has schismed. With you having done that song and dance about Catholicism enough, I'm sure you recognized the tune and steps, even when set to an Eastern tempo.

Then you, Shelby, Jason, and a few others showed up and began bemoaning that woe, it's just another attack on Catholicism.

Well, let me explain this to you in the simplest of terms.

By your own church's teachings, grace is not reserved to practicing Catholics. By your own church's teachings, the Orthodox are guilty of at most schism, and are in full communion with the Catholic Church as far as it itself is concerned (cf. Paul VI).

The person doing all the attacking in this thread has been you -- with assists credited to Jason and Shelby. And I would venture to guess that in the eyes of every non-Catholic involved here, and I'd bet at least one Catholic, you have won the battle but lost the war.

Jesus Christ himself gave us the touchstone to know who His true disciples were, and where truth can be found. It's in the 13th chapter of John.

And you have been showing Christian charity, grace, and mercy to such an extent that Fred Phelps is taking notes in envy of your skill.

It is not for me to say this, but I sincerely think you need to repent, get off your high horse, and start acting like a Christian woman instead of the Arbiter of Catholic Doctrine to whom Pope Benedict looks when he needs to be set straight about something.

Forgive me, but a little straight talk of the Dutch Uncle variety seemed called for.

Basil, when opportunity presents, would you kindly explain oikonomia and its relationship to doctrinal rigidity in a bit more depth?

Concur.

Harsh words have driven at least one poster here to explore Orthodoxy. Even the promise of Bingo couldn't bring him back.

Would you like a cookie? We have eggnog, too.

 

[CaDan]

I may just be in ignorance here...but HOW, exactly, is this debate pleasing to Christ and useful in building the kingdom?

You got me.

Would you like a cookie? We have eggnog, too.

 

[GraceInHim]

You got me.

Would you like a cookie? We have eggnog, too.

we have been trying to light some joy, hey CaDan -- remember before -- you did a prayer? try it again? bet you it works

 

[Joykins]

You got me.

Would you like a cookie? We have eggnog, too.

You did not mention the Baklava!

Is outrage!

 

[CaDan]

Probably you don't think they are fasle . . . but they are negative statements and we have the right to ask for objective evidence to back them up . . . I don't think anyone has the right to keep posting negative statements about another's Church and Faith and not back them up, especially when requested, do you?

*sigh*

If you would just, for one moment, please set aside your forensic approach to everything, we might make a bit of progress here.

Would you like a cookie? We have eggnog too.

 

[CaDan]

You did not mention the Baklava!

Is outrage!

You only posted the recipe.

I didn't know you HAD baklava!

 

[Greg the byzantine]

You only posted the recipe.

I didn't know you HAD baklava!

I actually have baklava. No joke, my sister made it yesterday for her friends.

 

[Joykins]

[BIBLE]Isaiah 55:1-12[/BIBLE]

 

[thereselittleflower]

Yes, Therese, you are bright enough to figure out that I mean, more precisely, as I have already said, that God allows someone out of the commitment of marriage to remarry. He forgives the sin of breaking the sacrament of matrimony to remarry. Okay? In extreme cases His mercy is sought, and given I believe.

Basil

Basil . . what you have not told us is how forgiveness of the sin of divorce DISSOLVES the MARRIAGE, the COVENANT. . . .


One cannot marry another while the first marriage Covenant is in force.

A Marriage Covenant is not dissolved by a civil court.

It is not a contract that can be dissolved by a court of man.


A Marriage Covenant is ONLY dissolved by death of one of the partners.


How does forgiveness of the sin of divorce (a civil issue which ruptures the relationship of the man and woman) actually end the marriage Covenant which can only be ended by death?



You say it is dissolved because of forgiveness . .


How?


You ask isn't God powerful enough?



What does God's power have to do with it?


Will God use His power to break one of His own Laws?



We are simply waiting for you to answer these questions.



Peace to all

 

[Joykins]

You only posted the recipe.

I didn't know you HAD baklava!

Hey, *I* live within walking distance of a Greek restaurant/carryout

 

[Debi1967]

Would you all remember this is ADVENT for Heaven's Sakes..... Funny thing about that NONE of us are supposed to be fighting..... What is this ADVENT Starts and the CLAWS come out and then all of the sudden you want everyone to see even our own problems inside the HOLY APOSTOLIC CATHOLIC CHURCH .....

WOW people are NONE of you thinking?

Yes this is demonstrating so well well the Season and Christ's Church ..... I am sure he is sooooooooo very proud of us ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL Right now

 

[CaDan]

Saint Benedict and Saint Scholastica,
you were people of peace,
you walked the paths of peace your whole life
and led all who came to you into the ways of peace.

Help us to seek peace and pursue it,
to be the first to hold out our hands
in friendship and forgiveness.

Help us to achieve peace in our hearts, in our homes,
in our neighborhoods, and in our troubled world.

Let peace fill our lives
so that we may live in God's grace and love.
Amen.​

From the Benedictines for Peace.

 

[Benedicta00]

Concur.

Harsh words have driven at least one poster here to explore Orthodoxy. Even the promise of Bingo couldn't bring him back.

Would you like a cookie? We have eggnog, too.

Even though he could do a lot worse than orthodoxy they way I see it- this is how much he hates the Catholic Church. But this is just my opinion.

 

[CaDan]

Come, let us go up to the
Mountain of the Lord
That we may walk the paths
Of the Most High

And we shall beat our swords into ploughshares,
And our spears into pruning hooks.
Nation shall they learn sword against nation
Neither shall they learn war any more.
And none shall be afraid,
For the mouth of the
Lord of Hosts has spoken.​

 

[geocajun]

She isn’t doing that and neither are we. The EO makes this claim (as we do) that they are the ‘true’ Church all Theresa is doing along with myself an Jason is taking them to task to prove these claims.

Their claim to fame is that they do not change doctrine and they strictly follow what Christ laid out and we are only pointing out that this is not true, their teaching on marriage and divorce is not rooted in scripture or tradition. If it is, all they have to do is show us this and we can be done here.
That is all any of us have done, is ask them to back all this up by showing us where it is found in revelation to be true.

Bingo. It's one thing to demonstrate that a priest or bishop has sinned against the faith. We've seen plenty of cheap shots taken at our Church clergy for the sex scanal, even though i've demonstrated this problem exists within the eastern orthodox church as well. Did that get any mea-culpa's from the EO here? no of course not.. but I digress.
What we have not seen here however, is any evidence that the Catholic Church has failed to keep the integrity of the faith in tact. We keep the faith that has been handed down by the Apostles themselves.
We have seen however, a failed attempt by our EO brethren to prove they have kept the teaching of the Church in tact, particularly on the matter of divorce and contraception. Instead we've all witnessed a false mercy which simply ignores sin under the pretense that sacraments can be 'forgiven' (whatever that means).

So on the one hand, we've seen that Catholic Clerics were persecuted for the sins of a few (~2% of priests are guilty), even though the exact same thing happens in the EO Church which was never acknowledged (or denied) but the faith is intact, even though some clergy aren't good examples of following it.

On the other hand, we've seen an demonstration of false mercy in order to justify the permitting of multiple marriages among EO lay men & women, and the same to justify permitting contraception if their confessors conscience allows for it (whatever thats all about).
So here I believe we've seen the gates of hell prevail in teachings on faith and morals. This is the fruit, and the lack of Magisterial Authority to fix it within the EO Church is why we find the mantra "come, experience the mystery of our faith" pronounced so often.
If I found that my faith was very difficult to justify using the deposit of faith & reason, then I would emphasise the mystery too.