Why I'm Orthodox . . . and why others may want to be too.

[vanshan]

CaDan, do you think bickering with your brethren is helping convert Eastern Dissidents?

Is that all we are to you?

I'm not surprised, but please treat us like people, not enemies or dissidents. When we dehumanize people scary things happen.

Thanks.

Basil

 

[geocajun]

Do you think bickering with Eastern Dissidents is helping convert Eastern Dissidents?

Bickering implies 'petty' and there is nothing petty about adultery. Your response was cute, but misguided in that regard.

I think we've (particularly ThereselittleFlower and Shelb5) given more than one eastern dissident something to think about over the course of this thread, but I think the force of the arguments is weakened by our brethren rebuking eachother during the process.

 

[geocajun]

Is that all we are to you?

I'm not surprised, but please treat us like people, not enemies or dissidents. When we dehumanize people scary things happen.

Thanks.

Basil

oh vey!
A dissident is now somehow not human?


Main Entry: dis·si·dent
Pronunciation: -d&nt
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin dissident-, dissidens, present participle of dissidEre to sit apart, disagree, from dis- + sedEre to sit -- more at [size=-1]SIT[/size]
: disagreeing especially with an established religious or political system, organization, or belief

 

[JimfromOhio]

Instead of calling us unmerciful- why don’t you explain why it is you believe repentance for breaking a marriage covenant actually dissolves the marriage covenant?

Let me ask since you talk about covenant. What happens when a Catholic priest break their covenant (from my experiences) to their parish and Rome moves them from one parish to another? I find this contradictory.

 

[Benedicta00]

But how are you or anyone to know that just because a church blesses a union automatically means God does??

Because we look at the intentions of the marriage based on the fruits in their relationship. If a person cheats over an over we can say they never really intended to be faithful in the first place. The Church talks to the couple and ppl close to them who witnessed things that went on. She makes a judgment but it is based on honesty and yes this can be abused.

 

[Benedicta00]

Let me ask since you talk about covenant. What happens when a Catholic priest break their covenant (from my experiences) to their parish and Rome moves them from one parish to another? I find this contradictory.

So do I.

 

[Benedicta00]

Is that all we are to you?

I'm not surprised, but please treat us like people, not enemies or dissidents. When we dehumanize people scary things happen.

Thanks.

Basil

And you haven't done this to Theresa?

 

[geocajun]

Let me ask since you talk about covenant. What happens when a Catholic priest break their covenant (from my experiences) to their parish and Rome moves them from one parish to another? I find this contradictory.

I'm not I follow you, but what you rather happen to them? tar and feathers?

 

[vanshan]

And all the Church can do is take a honest look at the marriage to see if two ppl really entered in a covenant with God- a couple who seek annulment is asked to be honest and forthcoming because we go by the honest system.

.

Thank God, He can do better than that. He can show mercy in some circumstances.

Basil

 

[JimfromOhio]

I'm not I follow you, but what you rather happen to them? tar and feathers?

I guess you are not up to date with the news or chose to ignore them.

 

[geocajun]

I guess you are not up to date with the news or chose to ignore them.

Bless you

 

[Benedicta00]

Thank God, He can do better than that. He can show mercy in some circumstances.

Basil

He shows mercy all the time- but he does not give you special permission to commit a sin. Adultery - i.e. having sexual relations with someone when you are married to someone else is a sin. And ou can not have two valid marriages it is plain as that.

Even the civil laws recognize you can not have multiple marriages and it is illegal to do so and the true marriage is the one that was never dissolved.

Just admit- the EO have this one wrong. You can’t keep marrying over and over gain and claim God will keep dissolving marriage after marriage because you are sorry each time and are weak and need sex.

 

[JimfromOhio]

Just admit- the EO have this one wrong. You can’t keep marrying over and over gain and claim God will keep dissolving marriage after marriage because you are sorry each time and are weak and need sex.

Just admit RCC have this one wrong. You can't keep number of known pedophiles (priests) who were shifted around from parish to parish.

Why do you keep playing this arrogant attitude of that your denomination is more superior than others. I wish this be stopped.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Seems like this is just a legal loophole the Roman Catholic religion has created to try to show mercy, while still being legalistic about how it's given.

Basil . . a legal loophole . . is this all you see?

Do you understand what a sacrament is?

Tell me, do you believe that you can go in to the priest to confess your sins and receive forgiveness if when you confess your sins you have absoluitely no repentance whatsoever even if the priest says your sins are forgiven?

Can you receive the SACRAEMENT of Confession and thus forgiveness of your sins if you have no intention of repenting from your sins?


No . . .

Is it a legal loophole for the Church to tell you then that your confession was not valid?

Is it a legal loophole for the Church to tell you that your sins are not really forgiven because your confession was invalid because you had no intention of repenting so deceived the priest?


We are talking about a sacrament here Basil . . something HOLY and SACRED . . not to be messed with.


It is no legal loophole to proclaim the truth that a Sacrament is not valid for a perticular person if the requirements for its validity have not been met.


If you say contrary to this regarding the Sacrament of Marriage then you undo the validty of all sacraments. . . .

As was said earlier, God even recognized the woman at the wells marriage, and she wasn't even a Jew, so to say if someone's heart wasn't in the right place we consider their marraige void seems like a silly legal game. Rather than just showing mercy, they have to come up with an excuse or justification for letting the person divorce or remarry.

Basil . . you can continue to go on and on about this . . I have no idea how you come up with Jesus telling the woman that she WASN'T married to her current "husband" as somehow recongizing that her "marriage" was valid . . .



A "silly game" . . .OK . . try going to confession for now on without any intention of repentance for the rest of your life, then see if your sins were forgiven based on your deception to the priest . . . . .


Dare you do this?


I don't think so . . . .


Answer given.



Peace to all

 

[vanshan]

I guess you are not up to date with the news or chose to ignore them.

Jim, they've apologized for the sex abuse scandal, but let's just hope the spirit in the church which allows such acts has changed.

Basil

 

[thereselittleflower]

Wow...500+ replies. I'd like to have gotten in on this in the beginning....looks like an interesting thread. I ain't going back and read them all though....even though I'm sure it would be wildly entertaining to watch thereselittleflower and Shelb5 wail on you guys/girls.

I think everyone should be more worred about your avatar than Michelle and I LOL



Peace to all

 

[JimfromOhio]

Basil . . a legal loophole . . is this all you see?

Legal loophole? Don't you think RCC is doing the same thing? That church leaders tried to persuade victims to stay quiet, allowing the statute of limitations on civil lawsuits to run out when the victim reached age 21.

In State of Ohio, there is a pending Senate Bill 17 that, for one year, would allow victims to file civil lawsuits for child sex abuse that occurred up to 35 years ago. And that RCC wants bill to exclude 35-year window on filing suits.
Bishop will make case against bill

 

[Benedicta00]

I guess you are not up to date with the news or chose to ignore them.

I think they are terrible and no excuse can be made… the Church does not teach this, the fallen men are not practicing what they preach and that is an issue.

 

[seebs]

CaDan, do you think bickering with your brethren is helping convert Eastern Dissidents?

A wise man once wrote about how to convert people:

[bible]1 Peter 3:15[/bible]

It seems to me that doing this would be the way to convert people.

I am unsure about the use of the term "Dissidents" here. To the best of my knowledge, these people are fully accepting of the teachings given to them by people who have valid Apostolic Succession. They read the Bible, they follow Jesus, they partake in the Eucharist complete with Real Presence... I really don't see the big deal.

The Great Schism isn't going to go away because people are ever more firm in their conviction that it is absolutely the other guy's fault.

 

[thereselittleflower]

You are presuming mercy and forgiveness when Christ has said to us, [do not] LET man take apart what God joins.

How do you reconcile this?

You say well we will go beg God to forgive us

Forgive you for what?

For breaking the vow?

Fine, and he will but that isn’t really what you all are doing when you beg God…

You are begging God to allow you to commit adultery because it was His words that said, “What God has put asunder, let no man take apart.”

So do you have the power to take apart what God joins?

Of course not…

So you go and ask for allowance to be ,made for your sin of adultery.





Contrition for breaking up your marriage is one thing but wanting God to over look his laws is another.

You are asking God to allow you to commit adultery. Why can't you see this is what all this really is?



Now lets apply this logic to the sin of murder or better- abortion and let's see if it works? Abortion lovers make the same argument. It is merciful and we know it’s not ideal but God forgives us and understands our weakness. Tell me how your view on marriage would be any different?

Thank you Michelle for making these observations . . . I was hoping to get around to doing this, but since you have I will simply add my agreement to what you said above.

(bolding mine)



Peace to all