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convenants and sacraments are not in need of "forgiveness"....vanshan said:Because even marriage covenants or sacraments are not beyond God's power to forgive--He is greater than that commitment, His mercy endures.
Basil
geocajun said:convenants and sacraments are not in need of "forgiveness"....
Sins, which are offenses against God need forgiveness and Mercy.
Sacraments and Covenants are instituted BY God.
I know.. I also fail to see why we should allow second and third marriages but forbid gay sexual unions if we are doing these things in the name of human weakness and mercy.geocajun said:What part of "Go, and sin no more" aren't you getting here?
Nobody said sinners cannot be forgiven, and you know better.
All we've done is repeat the words of God, "Go, and sin no more". We don't condone homosexual acts for the same reason, but those who've fallen can be forgiven, but never can the act of homosexuality be permitted, Nor can adultery for those who've been divorced yet live with valid/sacramental marriages.
Shelb5 said:I know.. I also fail to see why we should allow second and third marriages but forbid gay sexual unions if we are doing these things in the name of human weakness and mercy.
That would mean all sins should be allowed, not just adultry.
vanshan said:Let's agree to disagree, because the coversation is unprofitable. I think we all have seen the spirit of the Roman Catholic dogma on marriage adequately showcased here for all to see.
Basil
exactlygeocajun said:The sin of doing so would yes, but the covenant is not 'dissolved' simply because sins are 'absolved'.
thereselittleflower said:John . .this also greatly dissappoints . . . . .
You have no context here . . the letter which you are quoting from provides no context either. . . . Where is the original question from St Boniface to which this is responding?
thereselittleflower said:This is presented it here as if it is to be understood in the context of a scarmental marriage between baptized believers . . . for that is the only context that would have direct bearing on anything we have been saying.
thereselittleflower said:Yet, this is only an assumption for there is NOTHING in the answer itself which suggests this. . . .
thereselittleflower said:This was an answer given to a MISSIONARY. . . . . This was from a MISSIONARY letter to St Boniface. That is a bit of context that is necessary, wouldn't you agree?
thereselittleflower said:How do you know he is not speaking regarding a situation as it arises between those who are not within the Church, who are unbelievers?
thereselittleflower said:How do you know he is not speaking regarding a situation as it arises between those where one partner of the mariage has converted and become a believer, yet their spouse is still an unbeliever ?
thereselittleflower said:Presenting the quote stripped of what context is available, and as though it proves in some way that the West had similara views (for that is the purpose of your posting this) when you can't prove what the context of the response actually is in support of such use of it here, is extremely WEAK evidence for your case and cannot legitimately be used as evidence to support your position if you cannot prove that it is referring to what should happen when such circumstances arise between spouses who participate in a sacramentally valid marriage between two baptized believers.
thereselittleflower said:Since you can't provide such evidence, use of this of this quote in this manner is highly fallacious.
And we have seen that the EO thinks man is so animalistic he has to have sex so he has to be married (so he can have sex) even when it is a sin to do so.vanshan said:Let's agree to disagree, because the coversation is unprofitable. I think we all have seen the spirit of the Roman Catholic dogma on marriage adequately showcased here for all to see.
Basil
geocajun said:The sin of doing so would yes, but the covenant is not 'dissolved' simply because sins are 'absolved'.
geocajun said:[i]convenants and sacraments[/i] are not in need of "forgiveness"....
Sins, which are offenses against God need forgiveness and Mercy.
Sacraments and Covenants are instituted BY God.
Secondly, where exactly in the kerygma do you find God expressing to us that He would 'dissolve' the sacramental marriage covenant for any reason?
Now tell me, do you find just the opposite? yes? no? refuse to look?
That is what we are asking you? Where do you get as a matter revelation that repentance does?vanshan said:What would it take for God to dissolve this covenant? Is He powerful enough to do so, in your faith?
Basil
geocajun said:CaDan, do you think bickering with your brethren is helping convert Eastern Dissidents?
Do you think bickering with Eastern Dissidents is helping convert Eastern Dissidents?geocajun said:CaDan, do you think bickering with your brethren is helping convert Eastern Dissidents?
1Cor 5:12What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13God will judge those outside."
Shelb5 said:Divorce? I'm sure it is civilly accepted and the Church a church would recognize you are not longer legally married but does God divorce ppl he marrys? Can you show me in the bilbe where he ever divorced any one he married?
vanshan said:The job of Christ's Church is to rehabilitate sinners, so I think getting tied up in an unending discussion of sin is really unfruitful. The moral direction God gives us is there to guide us away from death, which sin produces in us. We identify sin, but we must move beyond that with helping to rehabilitate the sinner, not cast them into the outer darkness of despair.
Basil
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