Why ID is logically incoherant.

[Naraoia]

I was watching a show last night where they were showing an experiment that used gases that make up the atmosphere on one of the moons of Saturn and when they subjected these gases to sunlight organic material was created. I did not catch a lot of detail but it seemed very interesting.

Wow, Miller's & Urey's, Titan edition? Sounds cool.

 

[Soul Searcher]

Wow, Miller's & Urey's, Titan edition? Sounds cool.

I think it was the Universe on the history channel episode titled Saturn Lord of the rings.

I think that is the show but I could be wrong as I have seen 4 or 5 shows related to the solar system over the last few days and my memory is not what it used to be.

 

[Naraoia]

I think it was the Universe on the history channel episode titled Saturn Lord of the rings.

I think that is the show but I could be wrong as I have seen 4 or 5 shows related to the solar system over the last few days and my memory is not what it used to be.

Not that I have a TV licence but thanks

 

[Inan3]

Not that I have a TV licence but thanks

That's interesting...You need a licence to have a TV or watch it?

 

[Soul Searcher]

That's interesting...You need a licence to have a TV or watch it?

Yeah that one caught me off gaurd as well

 

[Inan3]

What evidence. I hope you don't mean the Bible, because we all know that I.D. has absolutely nothing to do with the Bible.... right?

No, I mean changed lives, miracles, healing, The Spirit of God, etc. but you can't see these things. We can.

 

[Inan3]

Can intelligence originate from no intelligence at all? Everything that has a beginning comes from something else that shares traits. Can people rationally feel that thinking organisms had their origin from the mindless inorganic?

It's sad but it seems that they do all the time.

 

[Inan3]

Can crystals form from a liquid?

Can differentiated cells come from non-differentiated cells?

Don't insects share traits with humans? Are insects intelligent?

No because they didn't "come" from humans.

 

[Loudmouth]

No, I mean changed lives, miracles, healing, The Spirit of God, etc. but you can't see these things. We can.

Yeah, and I have a 6 foot invisible rabbit as a friend. His name is Harvey.

Don't you find it strange that your only evidence is conveniently invisible?

 

[Inan3]

There are two major fallacies underlying I.D.

1. The assumption that natural mechanisms cannot produce certain complex systems. Therefore, I.D. wins by default.

2. I.D. puts natural intelligence in the same box as supernatural intelligence. We know that intelligence exists in the natural world, but we know nothing about intelligence in the supernatural world. So, rather than distinguish between natural and supernatural mechanisms, they distinguish between intelligent and non-intelligent "natural" mechanisms. This makes little sense since we know nature can produce intelligent beings as we see it happen everyday.

It's not in the same box as supernatural intelligence it "comes" from that box so it's similiar but incomplete. It grows and expands as one believes.

We do know about intelligence in the supernatural world. We know God and we know His word which defines and explains it to a point. We continue to grow in this knowledge as we grow in Him.

Yes nature can produce intelligent beings because a supernatural being created nature that way. It was by design.

 

[Inan3]

It would appear so.



And? Every atom in our bodies shares traits with the rest of the material in the universe.



"Rationally feel" is a bit of an oxymoron. If you mean "rationally conclude", yes we can. Every atom in our bodies was at one time inorganic. This is a fact.

You know that is all hogwash and yet you hold on to it. The only thing that comes from nothing is nothing. You have never experienced nor seen contrary to this happen. It's only in the fairytale of abiogenesis.

 

[Inan3]

Yeah, and I have a 6 foot invisible rabbit as a friend. His name is Harvey.

Don't you find it strange that your only evidence is conveniently invisible?

No, because my thoughts are invisible, my love is invisible, the wind is invisible but they all bring about results. Say hello to Harvey for me.

 

[Inan3]

Yeah, and I have a 6 foot invisible rabbit as a friend. His name is Harvey.

Don't you find it strange that your only evidence is conveniently invisible?

I would have thought your rabbit would be ERVy, not Harvey.

 

[Loudmouth]

You know that is all hogwash and yet you hold on to it. The only thing that comes from nothing is nothing. You have never experienced nor seen contrary to this happen.

How do trees grow? They take inorganic water and carbon dioxide and turn it into organic sugar. The other animals eat this inorganic-to-organic food (including us) and other animals eat them (mmm, beef). As we burn this sugar we again turn it back into inorganic carbon dioxide and water, and we even use the energy of this reaction to make DNA, proteins, etc. There is no dividing line between inorganic and organic chemicals. They are one in the same.

If you have evidence otherwise please give it here.

It's only in the fairytale of abiogenesis.

I would be careful of accusing others of believing in fairytales. Don't you believe that man was magically poofed into being from a pile of dust by a supernatural deity? It's not me who believes in fairytales. That would be you.

 

[Patashu]

If complex systems can only be produced by design, who designed the designer/God?

 

[Loudmouth]

No, because my thoughts are invisible, my love is invisible, the wind is invisible but they all bring about results. Say hello to Harvey for me.

Thoughts and love are both abstract human concepts, not real things. Wind is detectable. You can buy a wind detector, it looks like this:

 

[Soul Searcher]

You know that is all hogwash and yet you hold on to it. The only thing that comes from nothing is nothing. You have never experienced nor seen contrary to this happen. It's only in the fairytale of abiogenesis.

I do not think the theory states that something came from nothing but rather that chemicals came together to become the first living thing.

 

[Patashu]

Thoughts and love are both abstract human concepts, not real things. Wind is detectable. You can buy a wind detector, it looks like this:

Then explain this!

 

[Naraoia]

That's interesting...You need a licence to have a TV or watch it?

Not like a driving licence or anything, no On these islands a TV licence is simply another name for paying to watch TV

 

[Inan3]

Not like a driving licence or anything, no On these islands a TV licence is simply another name for paying to watch TV

Oh...thanks. As for most of the content of TV you aren't missing much.