Why I Think Christmas is Not Biblical (Please read OP before posting).

[Bible Highlighter]

Anyways, I am going to strive to move on from this topic for now.
I believe I have said what I needed to say with Scripture.

May God's goodness and love be upon you all today.

 

[salt-n-light]

I am aware of the realities of life, you just didn't need to give me personal details about your self in regards to your own life like that to make the point. I just would never say that personally (and I would have spoken in generic terms of people in every day life situations to get that point across), but that is just me. Something like that is too personal to say on the internet for me. But that is your choice to speak as you will. Just know that if you are speaking with me: I would prefer that you would not share that kind of thing because I feel it is inappropriate.

Anyways, my point is that there are people who go to CHURCH fellowship with many believers and not just one's own spouse and they are nude. This is obviously inappropriate and not Christian. You would not go to a church like that because it is not biblical to do that and it violates basic morality, as well. My point is that Christmas is no different because it is also unbiblical in certain ways and violates morality if you were to partake in the holiday to it's fullest extent (or if you were to go all out). In other words, somebody can say they are going to go to Mardi Gras but they were not going to go nude, etc. but that still does not change the problem of others going nude. One is still condoning others being publicly nude if a person is celebrating Mardi Gras with them. Christmas and parents lying to their children is a part of Christmas. Black Friday fights is a part of Christmas (Yes, I realize it is mostly the US), but the reality of this holiday still cannot be changed. It's a part of the holiday. People do that as a result of this holiday. To celebrate in this holiday when one knows people are always going to lie and fight each year on Christmas is telling of the kind of fruit that this holiday produces. A person has to turn a blind eye to these things in order to celebrate it; And for what? To celebrate Jesus or to celebrate so as to have a good time?

Black Friday is part of THANKSGIVING. Black Friday has to do wth stock markets, and not everyone’s Black Friday includes fighting through lines.

Santa Claus is not part of everyone’s Christmas. Christmas tree is not part of everyone’s Christmas. Just like the Easter bunny is not part of everyone’s Easter, drinking and partying it’s not everyone’s New Year and birthday.some don’t even celebrate those holidays, they celebrate holidays in connection to culture. Just because others decide to do what they do with the holiday, doesn’t mean that it’s of the fault of the existence of the day. If you want to do it biblical, be a messianic and observe the Jewish festivals. Even within that, not every festival need to be observe either.

But the existence of Christmas is in connection of honoring Jesus’ birth. That’s it, and every Christian is responsible of how they chose to use the day. It’s a case where it’s ok to celebrate, and ok not to.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Not going to keep dragging this topic of discussion on anymore.
I have my convictions with God's Word, and you have yours.

Side Note:

Before I go, on and ending note: You should realize that people buy things on Black Friday for Christmas and not Thanksgiving. Black Friday exists to serve Christmas. The business market realizes this fact.

Anyways, may God's good ways be upon you (even if we may disagree).

 

[Daniel Marsh]

I am not saying that every single thing written is going to be accurate in every single Encyclopedia. I am sure many Encyclopedias have some inaccurate information in them. But if they are all saying the same thing in regards to Christmas in the majority of Encyclopedias, then that means something. To top it off, the name Christmas itself sounds Catholic. Christ mass. The mass of Christ. Think about it. Do you celebrate the mass?

If six people testified that you commented a crime, when you know without a doubt that you were not even in the State with in being at a given address in a city. What is the something their agreement means?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Not interested in debating this anymore.

May God bless you.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Not interested in debating this anymore.

May God bless you.

God Bless you too,
daniel

 

[Bible Highlighter]

God Bless you too,
daniel

Thanks.

May your day in the Lord be great.

 

[Der Alte]

Important Note:
(Please read this before posting and or reading the rest of my OP):
I want to first say that I love you in the Lord Jesus Christ. I also want to say that I love all people. I am commanded by God to even love my enemies. My message today here is not that I want to be of hate or of malice, but of love. I say what I do in love to you. God tells me to even love the sinner and hate the sin. I am especially fond of my fellow Christians who truly desire to follow Christ and who seek to obey Him in everything that He tells us to do within His Word. That is what this thread is about. If you are offended by what I will say with Scripture, please know I am not saying I am better than you or that I do not care about you. I am nothing. The Lord our God is everything; And I love you deeply. I am merely calling you in love to follow God's Word and His Word alone. Only God can open our eyes, and change our hearts to see what His Word says in so many ways. I am only speaking and doing that which I believe is right by the Word of God. This thread is merely to show you what the Bible says about a popular celebration of the world when we compare it with Scripture. For surely we can love our families without a specific calendar day telling us to do so. We can most assuredly love our family by God's Word alone. In fact, speaking of God's Word, we are told within His Word to test everything (1 Thessalonians 5:21). We are to hold fast to that which is good (1 Thessalonians 5:21). My friends, I call you all in love to look at the Holy Scriptures today with a fresh new pair of eyes. Before you begin, I would like you to take a moment and pray. I would like for you to pray to the Lord and ask Him for wisdom and understanding before reading what I am about to share with you in love involving the Scriptures. For I write this because I love you in Christ Jesus.
Side Note: Did you pray yet? Did you really do it? Please do so now if you have not done so. Anyways, may the Lord's love and goodness be upon you this day that the Lord has made.​

Why I Think Christmas is Not Biblical.
#1. Christmas is not celebrated anywhere in the Bible.

#2. Christmas Trees.

​

#3. Do not imitate the heathen's ways or men's traditions.
#5. The focus of Christmas is materialism and not the worship of Christ on this day.

​

#6. Be ye holy and separate from the world.

​

#7. Love not the things of this world.

In 1 John 2:15-17, it says love not the world, neither the things in this world, if any man loves the world, the love of the Father is not in them.

Christmas is technically a thing of this world. It is world recognized holiday.
But if you tell people you stopped celebrating Christmas, expect some hateful comments from people. Why?

​

"If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you." (John 15:19).

Colossians 3:1-3 says,

"Since you were raised from the dead with Christ, aim at what is in heaven, where Christ is sitting at the right hand of God. Think only about the things in heaven, not the things on earth. Your old sinful self has died, and your new life is kept with Christ in God."

Christmas is not something that is celebrated in Heaven. We are to think about the things in Heaven or above and not on the things of this Earth. Our focus should be on building ourselves up in righteousness, love, and faith according to God's Word and not according to the wisdom or ways of men.​

Anyways, I say all this in love and with the hope you will investigate the origins of Christmas on your own and seek the Scriptures with God in deep prayer and fasting on this matter. I know that if you will seek the truth, God will show it to you. Again, I say these things not condemn or hurt anyone but I say these things in love so as to answer the call of God in your Sanctification in being truly holy for the Lord. So..."Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." (Matthew 5:16).

The usual accusative, judgmental litany of out-of-context proof texts. I have been a Christian since LBJ was president and have never seen a Christmas tree as part of a Christian worship service.
Luke 18:10-14
#1. Christmas is not celebrated anywhere in the Bible.
Irrelevant. I know some folks who think musical instruments are evil because they are not mentioned in the NT. I wonder how many other things we can find that are observed which are not mentioned anywhere in the Bible.
#2. Christmas Trees.
Stop a 100 people at random on the street and ask them if they have a Christmas tree because Druids or some other group 100s of years ago supposedly worshipped trees?
#3. Do not imitate the heathen's ways or men's traditions.
See #2 Christmas trees, lights, wreaths etc. are NOT copied from heathens etc.
Let me show how silly this point is. Should Christians stop eating beef because Hindus consider cows sacred?
#4. True Giving vs Christmas Giving.
More judgmental accusations. How does giving gifts at Christmas or any other time equal "not true giving?"
#5. The focus of Christmas is materialism and not the worship of Christ on this day.
Nonsense! Christians are not responsible for how contemporary society has appropriated and commercialized the celebration of birth of the savior or anything else.
#6. Be ye holy and separate from the world.
How does observing the birth of the savior make anyone not holy and not separate from the world?
#7. Love not the things of this world.
How does observing the birth of the Savior equal loving the things of this world?

 

[friend of]

It is the one time of year where everyone gets together to give and whereby some say they are doing it to honor Christ's birth. Everyone is one big happy family celebrating and exchanging gifts and excited over their newly received material goods.

Right after you post scripture about loving your enemies, you post this, which countermands it. Isn't the human unity at Christmas time a good thing?

Also hello BH. I was wondering where you've been.

 

[rebornfree]

Isaiah 9 v 1-7 and John 1 v 1-14 show the essence of Christmas to me. Nothing wrong with celebrating the Lord leaving heaven to become a baby in poor conditions in order to save mankind from their own sin. Also how amazing the gifts the wise men brought symbolizing kingship, priesthood and death - nothing wrong in dwelling on that, nor on anything else Matthew and Luke tell us about the Lord's birth. If we put some of that to nice music - Handel's Messiah is my favourite - I don't think that is wrong, but don't let the music become a false god. Everything else is froth, which we can take (if it's not sinful) or leave according to conscience.

I'm not keen on doing Christmas the way the world does, especially Santa, but other Christians may feel differently, and the over-materialism is crazy, but I don't think it's wrong to give presents per se, and it also may be a time when charities receive more donations. Also I think spending time with family and friends can be good, but the way the day can be promoted to something special can be extremely painful for those in sad situations. It is tragic that there are more suicides at a time when we are meant to be bringing hope to the world. However it can also be a time when people are more receptive to hear the gospel as carol singing is socially acceptable and people don't shy away from Bible readings as much. Regular TV channels show some (though not many) services and those are the channels the lost watch.

I really think it's a matter of whether it is Christ-centred or world-centred.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Right after you post scripture about loving your enemies, you post this, which countermands it. Isn't the human unity at Christmas time a good thing?

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17). There is no faith unless it is written. Loving others is only in accordance to what Scripture says. For example, somebody may think loving others is giving all people chocolates and yet if a person is diabetic, this is a problem. A person may think they need to love by starting an animal shelter. The best way to love is how God says we should love. Christmas is a part of the world system. I would not expect any person to give up Christmas if they have not first given up worldly music, and worldly movies, etcetera. It takes time for a believer to mature and grow in the Lord and be taught such things by His Word. 1 John 2 says love not the world and neither things in the world. My point here is that there can be a false unity of love. Imagine if there was a cult that did loving things only and they were big time into peace and unity. However, they denied the Trinity and they were into fornication. So unity in love in their case would be false unity and a false love.

Also hello BH. I was wondering where you've been.

I took a hiatus when CF banned the KJB Only topic due to my passionate defense of it.
I started to work on an exhaustive and long Christian writeup (i.e., a graphic rich PDF that will be free for all Christians to read).
One aspect of my study has led me to find some really cool stuff involving American history and the Bible.
Today, there are many who will say that this nation was not founded as a Christian nation, and that is a lie.
I found some amazing discoveries to say the least.

 

[prodromos]

Christmas is a part of the world system.

Not in the Eastern Orthodox Church.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Not in the Eastern Orthodox Church.

That would be like saying, Hey, we have this movie and now we play it in our church and so this movie is no longer really made by others outside our church. The movie is actually a part of our church now. It’s no longer a worldly movie.

Sorry, you cannot change reality.
I mean, lets just say hypothetically your church started this holiday somehow and secularists had distorted it and made their own version. Well, it really would not matter because the holiday is primarily celebrated even by atheists, and such. Where is one being holy and separate from the world like atheists when they kill each other in department stores to give each other gifts? Where is one being holy and separate by decorating a tree alongside atheists? Happy unity with all? I remember seeing a YouTube vid of a Christmas tree catching on fire because of the lights on it. This to me seems like a Judgment from God that folks shouldn’t do stupid and useless things. Just follow the Bible and don’t make up a bunch of added nonsense. Next thing you know people will be putting Christmas lights on animals and the animals will catch on fire. Really. It just dumb, and childish. People need to man up and follow God’s Word alone and not the words of men.

In other words, if you say you celebrate Christmas, folks are going to think you are celebrating the worldly secular version of it. I mean, why would they even have the same name whereby it would cause confusion?

 

[The Liturgist]

That would be like saying, Hey, we have this movie and now we play it in our church and so this movie is no longer really made by others outside our church. The movie is actually a part of our church now. It’s no longer a worldly movie.

Sorry, you cannot change reality.
I mean, lets just say hypothetically your church started this holiday somehow and secularists had distorted it and made their own version. Well, it really would not matter because the holiday is primarily celebrated even by atheists, and such. Where is one being holy and separate from the world like atheists when they kill each other in department stores to give each other gifts? Where is one being holy and separate by decorating a tree alongside atheists? Happy unity with all? I remember seeing a YouTube vid of a Christmas tree catching on fire because of the lights on it. This to me seems like a Judgment from God that folks shouldn’t do stupid and useless things. Just follow the Bible and don’t make up a bunch of added nonsense. Next thing you know people will be putting Christmas lights on animals and the animals will catch on fire. Really. It just dumb, and childish. People need to man up and follow God’s Word alone and not the words of men.

In other words, if you say you celebrate Christmas, folks are going to think you are celebrating the worldly secular version of it. I mean, why would they even have the same name whereby it would cause confusion?

I beg to differ. Since the Orthodox Church is literally the Body of Christ, whatever it has decided through its Holy and Ecumenical Synods is legitimate, is legitimate, and not just for it, but for all other Christians. This is why iconoclasm, for example, is to be rejected: because the Orthodox Church has concluded that the veneration of icons is required in order to properly respect the Incarnation.

And likewise the Incarnation is to be celebrated, and thus the Feast of the Nativity maintained. Furthermore, most Orthodox Christians celebrate the Feast of the Nativity according to the Julian Calendar, by which time the rest of Christendom has put their Christmas decorations away and moved on, and all of the worldly issues you complain about, which are in fact irrelevant to how the Holy Day is kept from a religious and liturgical perspective, are thus irrelevant.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I beg to differ. Since the Orthodox Church is literally the Body of Christ, whatever it has decided through its Holy and Ecumenical Synods is legitimate, is legitimate, and not just for it, but for all other Christians. This is why iconoclasm, for example, is to be rejected: because the Orthodox Church has concluded that the veneration of icons is required in order to properly respect the Incarnation.

No church is above God’s Word. If there is no biblical support for such a practice it must be put away; Especially when it falls into the realm of looking like idolatry. We are warned to flee idolatry. I am sure you see things differently, but I just look at the Word and try to live by that. You see the church as also having continued authority, but Jesus said we will be judged by His words (John 12:48). God magnifies His Word above His name.

And likewise the Incarnation is to be celebrated, and thus the Feast of the Nativity maintained. Furthermore, most Orthodox Christians celebrate the Feast of the Nativity according to the Julian Calendar, by which time the rest of Christendom has put their Christmas decorations away and moved on, and all of the worldly issues you complain about, which are in fact irrelevant to how the Holy Day is kept from a religious and liturgical perspective, are thus irrelevant.

But you still call it Christmas. There is no such word in the BIble or such a practice. So it is a man made invention. If somebody celebrated another version of a holiday called Halloween on a different calendar day, that still bears some kind of resemblance, right? There is obviously some elements in even the secular Christmas that bears at the heart your holiday. Do some Orthodox get warmed up in practice before the day because of the secular version? In either case, we DO see Jesus get upset in Scripture when others had followed the traditions of men, whereby they would violate the Word. There is absolutely ZERO places in the New Testament where we see the apostles whip out some image and kiss it, and stuff. That’s idolatry. Then again, when one is sucked up into something, it is hard to see the forest from the trees. I know. It was like that with Marvel comics movies, until I put them away. The Word should be our guide and nothing else. Think. Your church is not as influential as say the Bible. That’s kind of the point. God wants to reach people and it is HIS WORD that will do it, and not some small church in certain regions. A Bible breaks land barriers where the Orthodox Church is not even found. Perhaps this is because the Orthodox Church is not much into evangelism. Yet, we read that going out unto all nations and teaching Christ’s commands is a part of Christ’s great commission. So if your church is operating correctly, then it definitely is not aligning with some basics we read about in the New Testament.

 

[prodromos]

That would be like saying, Hey, we have this movie and now we play it in our church and so this movie is no longer really made by others outside our church. The movie is actually a part of our church now. It’s no longer a worldly movie.

I was going to comment on your lovely strawman, but it's a total rubbish strawman so I can't even give you credit for that.

Sorry, you cannot change reality.

Fortunately, what you put forward is not reality.

I mean, lets just say hypothetically your church started this holiday somehow and secularists had distorted it and made their own version. Well, it really would not matter because the holiday is primarily celebrated even by atheists, and such.

So what. It doesn't change what we celebrate in the Orthodox Church, which is the Nativity of our Lord God and Savior.

Where is one being holy and separate from the world like atheists when they kill each other in department stores to give each other gifts?

Well for one, we don't traditionally exchange gifts on Χριστούγεννα. That is usually done on 1st January on the feast day of St Basil. We prepare for the Nativity by fasting from meat and dairy in the weeks leading up to the feast day, then there is no fasting for at least a week after.

Where is one being holy and separate by decorating a tree alongside atheists? Happy unity with all?

Christmas trees aren't really our thing.

I remember seeing a YouTube vid of a Christmas tree catching on fire because of the lights on it. This to me seems like a Judgment from God that folks shouldn’t do stupid and useless things.

I think it just the consequences of not properly considering how many Watts of power are being fed into a flammable object.

Just follow the Bible and don’t make up a bunch of added nonsense.

The Scriptures record choirs of angels celebrating Christ's birth. It's a good biblical example to follow.

Next thing you know people will be putting Christmas lights on animals and the animals will catch on fire. Really. It just dumb, and childish.

Well your caricatures certainly are.

People need to man up and follow God’s Word alone and not the words of men.

The Church is guided by the Holy Spirit. Celebration of Christ's birth is universal across the ancient Churches.

In other words, if you say you celebrate Christmas, folks are going to think you are celebrating the worldly secular version of it. I mean, why would they even have the same name whereby it would cause confusion?

Like I said at the beginning, we celebrate the Nativity of our Lord God and Savior.

 

[Bobber]

I think it really would be counter productive for the advancement of the Kingdom of God to speak of Christmas as something one shouldn't have. It certainly has a lot of people using the day as an occasion to the flesh.....getting into materialism too much.....although some don't do that. I recall my parents buying clothes for us basically two times a year. A few weeks before School went back each fall and at Christmas time a few more garments. A day for materialism? Yes but if it wasn't done on Christmas the buying of these goods would have been on some other day so what's it matter.

But the culture even has looked upon Christmas as a fun time and enjoyable time for families.....So you start a resistance move against Christmas how does the culture look upon you. They see you as kill joys one's who want nothing less than to see life as boring and not only that but they these Christians want to make our children's life miserable. OK so some here may not like Christmas....fine.....you may however take away people's willingness to hear the most important message of all that being the gospel. Hardly makes sense to do that .

 

[Sabertooth]

Christmas is a religious spirit.

Some Messianic believers have calculated that He was born around the Feast of Tabernacles, and I am inclined to agree with them.

Was the birth of Christ during the Feast of Tabernacles?

This page looks at the timing of the birth of Jesus in relationship to The Feast of Tabernacles.

www.jewishroots.net

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Guess who said it:
"There are many things from which I might have found enjoyment by which I have not profited, I daresay, Christmas among the rest. And though it has never put a scrap of gold in my pocket, I believe it has done me good and will do me good, and I say God bless it!"

 

[The Liturgist]

If there is no biblical support for such a practice it must be put away; Especially when it falls into the realm of looking like idolatry. We are warned to flee idolatry

Firstly, we have all the biblical support we need in Matthew chapters 1-3 and Luke chapters 1-2, and John chapter 1. Secondly, we do not have idols in the Orthodox church; anyone who engages in idolatry violates the canons of the Seventh Ecumenical Synod, the Second Council of Nicaea and is anathema.

Also, God’s Word is Jesus Christ, who became incarnate for our sakes (John 1:1-18). It is this incarnation of the word that we celebrate in the Feast of the Nativity. All Orthodox traditions are compliant with scripture, we are not above scripture, but we did write it, since we are the ancient church and the Body of Christ. All other denominations are operating in the grey area created by schism, with the exception of a few traditional churches whose doctrines have come into alignment with ours, for example, some Continuing Anglicans in North America are almost indistinguishable from the Orthodox, and indeed some have joined our Western Rite Vicarate.

The Roman Catholic Church used to be a part of the Orthodox Church until they caused a schism by excommunicating us in the 11th century.