Why I Think Christmas is Not Biblical (Please read OP before posting).

[The Liturgist]

Christmas trees aren't really our thing.

That is true, although I have seen some beautiful Christmas trees in Orthodox parishes in the US; they certainly aren’t prohibited. They have some compelling iconographic symbolism as representations of the Holy Trinity. I would argue however the fact that they have to be cut down is the main blow to their orthodoxy, although on the other side of that occasion, farmers would not bother raising these trees if there was no market to sell them. Recall Metropolitan Kallistos Ware’s first hegumen at the Monastery of St. John on Patmos who said to be Orthodox is to love trees.

I also really dislike the nonsensical threads people make in which they attempt to make a connection between the Christmas tree, which is a symbol of the Holy Trinity and the Incarnation, and the Asherah poles of the Ugaritic Baal religion, and the sacred groves of other polytheistic sects.

 

[Benjamin Müller]

But the culture even has looked upon Christmas as a fun time and enjoyable time for families.....So you start a resistance move against Christmas how does the culture look upon you. They see you as kill joys one's who want nothing less than to see life as boring and not only that but they these Christians want to make our children's life miserable. OK so some here may not like Christmas....fine.....you may however take away people's willingness to hear the most important message of all that being the gospel. Hardly makes sense to do that .

God has seven commanded assemblies with three of them being specifically called feasts. If we were able to kill Christmas, we'd be able to institute the Holy Days that were ordained and commanded to be kept by God himself. And it's a time to be joyful and glad before the Lord. Christmas is truly misery; but God's Holy Days are health to our bones and gladness to our souls. So your argument falls flat. The Holy Days lay out God's salvation plan; there's no need for 'another gospel', which Paul doubly cursed both man or angel who should preach another gospel than the one they were given.

 

[The Liturgist]

God has seven commanded assemblies with three of them being specifically called feasts. If we were able to kill Christmas, we'd be able to institute the Holy Days that were ordained and commanded to be kept by God himself. And it's a time to be joyful and glad before the Lord. Christmas is truly misery; but God's Holy Days are health to our bones and gladness to our souls. So your argument falls flat. The Holy Days lay out God's salvation plan; there's no need for 'another gospel', which Paul doubly cursed both man or angel who should preach another gospel than the one they were given.

On the contrary, Christmas takes the place of the Feast of Tabernacles and supersedes that Holy Day, which has become obsolete since we are no longer dependent on gathering in order to have the Torah read to us, since we are no longer under the Law according to the Epistles of St. Paul to the Galatians, the Romans, et cetera.

The six feasts of Judaism did outline God’s plan for our salvation, but now that the Messiah has come, and God has been incarnate and walked among us having put on our humanity and glorified it, the feasts have been changed to reflect this.

However several of the Holy Days have been retained, but with a different emphasis, for example, Pascha, which is now focused on the resurrection of Christ, and Pentecost, which is now focused on the descent of the Holy Spirit. However, as for Yom KIppur, Rosh Hashanah, Purim, and so on, these are not relevant to Christianity, indeed it is worth noting that the Book of Esther was very nearly given deuterocanonical status by the early church fathers (what saved it is the longer, superior version one finds in the Septuagint, which has an emphasis on prayer on the part of Esther’s father and the deliverance of the Jews being a result of that prayer).

 

[Bobber]

God has seven commanded assemblies with three of them being specifically called feasts. If we were able to kill Christmas, we'd be able to institute the Holy Days that were ordained and commanded to be kept by God himself. And it's a time to be joyful and glad before the Lord. Christmas is truly misery; but God's Holy Days are health to our bones and gladness to our souls. So your argument falls flat. The Holy Days lay out God's salvation plan; there's no need for 'another gospel', which Paul doubly cursed both man or angel who should preach another gospel than the one they were given.

But how is it that you call Christmas another gospel? It's not a message about anything except Jesus Christ was born.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I was going to comment on your lovely strawman, but it's a total rubbish strawman so I can't even give you credit for that.

Fortunately, what you put forward is not reality.

Not claiming to be an expert on your version of Christmas. But you call it Christmas and you said things in your celebration that I see in the secular worldly version of it. But no. Your practice of Christmas (the Orthodox version) is not biblical. There is nowhere in Scripture that such a practice is found. All you got is the wisemen coming to worship Jesus as a baby, but they did not continue this practice after He was grown up or anything.

So what. It doesn't change what we celebrate in the Orthodox Church, which is the Nativity of our Lord God and Savior.

It matters because they have related elements. You also call it Christmas because my thread which obviously addresses the worldly version of it has drawn your attention.

Well for one, we don't traditionally exchange gifts on Χριστούγεννα. That is usually done on 1st January on the feast day of St Basil. We prepare for the Nativity by fasting from meat and dairy in the weeks leading up to the feast day, then there is no fasting for at least a week after.

Again, this is unbiblical. Please cease of such activities immediately.
Well, that is if you are a Bible believer alone like me.
I get no indication we are to follow extra biblical traditions by men and this practice comes from books that are divine in origin.
I can prove the Bible is divine in origin, but with your church, are they infallible?

Christmas trees aren't really our thing.

That’s good. It prevents any dogs from ruining any carpets and helps to prevent any unnecessary house fires.

I think it just the consequences of not properly considering how many Watts of power are being fed into a flammable object.

The one video said it was due to not watering the tree enough or something.
In either case, it is a waste of money and unnecessary to partake of such practices.

The Scriptures record choirs of angels celebrating Christ's birth. It's a good biblical example to follow.

Celebrating a one time occurence of a unique event does not mean one should repeat that event when such does not apply anymore. Jesus did not remain as a baby and nor did the Incarnation keep transpiring every year repeatedly for such a thing to happen, either.

Well your caricatures certainly are.

The Church is guided by the Holy Spirit. Celebration of Christ's birth is universal across the ancient Churches.

This is what you have been told, but it is not in the Bible. If it is not in the Bible it is only hear say of what men say. They are not infallible like the Bible is.

Like I said at the beginning, we celebrate the Nativity of our Lord God and Savior.

Stop doing it. It’s not in the Bible. Nowhere do we see the disciples make a practice of worshiping Jesus as a baby after He was an adult.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

But how is it that you call Christmas another gospel? It's not a message about anything except Jesus Christ was born.

It’s not that Christmas is another gospel. No Christian celebrates Christmas as if it was a salvation issue. However, it is an unbiblical practice that we do not see in Scripture that we should avoid because there are elements that God would not approve of. My OP goes into the different points of why it is not biblical.

 

[Strong in Him]

Again, this is unbiblical. Please cease of such activities immediately.
Well, that is if you are a Bible believer alone like me.

Bible alone?

Where does the Bible say that we can use computers, smartphones, cars?
Where does the Bible say that we should go into a building once a week to worship God and receive whatever portion of the Bible that the preacher wants to bring to us?
Where does it say that clergy should be ordained/wear dog collars?
Where does the Bible say that there even is a Bible - never mind one preferred translation of it?

I get no indication we are to follow extra biblical traditions by men and this practice comes from books that are divine in origin.

Like I said, the Bible doesn't comment on any of the above, either.

Celebrating a one time occurence of a unique event does not mean one should repeat that event when such does not apply anymore.

a) The birth of Christ applies every day - we should constantly remind ourselves that God chose to be born, as we are, to enter our world and to walk alongside us. We do not have a god who sits on a cloud and deals with us remotely, untouched by our pain, sin and difficulties. Our God understands because he has been there. He understands our sorrow, disappointment, frustration, joy, deepest longings and fervent prayers - he has been there, done that, worn the t shirt.
That is something to be celebrated every day.
b) Would you apply that argument to communion? Jesus told his disciples to regularly repeat/re-enact the Last Supper. The original meal is long over and, apart from Jesus, all those present are dead.

Jesus did not remain as a baby and nor did the Incarnation keep transpiring every year repeatedly for such a thing to happen, either.

No one said that he did.
You did not remain a baby either - nor have your children, if you have any.
I trust that you don't celebrate your own birthday and, if you had/have children, told them that now they have been born there is no need to keep remembering/celebrating the fact? I trust that you deprived them of going to other children's birthday parties, and receiving Christmas presents? I trust that, if you have a wife, you have told her that there is no need to keep celebrating the day you said "I do"?

This is what you have been told, but it is not in the Bible. If it is not in the Bible it is only hear say of what men say. They are not infallible like the Bible is.

You've been told that you can use computers/the internet, but it's not in the Bible.

Stop doing it. It’s not in the Bible.

The KJV isn't in the Bible. Stop using it.

I know this wasn't addressed to me, but when someone says that I/we should stop doing something that they disapprove of, it makes me want to go and do it all the more.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Important Note:
(Please read this before posting and or reading the rest of my OP):

I want to first say that I love you in the Lord Jesus Christ. I also want to say that I love all people. I am commanded by God to even love my enemies. My message today here is not that I want to be of hate or of malice, but of love. I say what I do in love to you. God tells me to even love the sinner and hate the sin. I am especially fond of my fellow Christians who truly desire to follow Christ and who seek to obey Him in everything that He tells us to do within His Word. That is what this thread is about. If you are offended by what I will say with Scripture, please know I am not saying I am better than you or that I do not care about you. I am nothing. The Lord our God is everything; And I love you deeply. I am merely calling you in love to follow God's Word and His Word alone. Only God can open our eyes, and change our hearts to see what His Word says in so many ways. I am only speaking and doing that which I believe is right by the Word of God. This thread is merely to show you what the Bible says about a popular celebration of the world when we compare it with Scripture. For surely we can love our families without a specific calendar day telling us to do so. We can most assuredly love our family by God's Word alone. In fact, speaking of God's Word, we are told within His Word to test everything (1 Thessalonians 5:21). We are to hold fast to that which is good (1 Thessalonians 5:21). My friends, I call you all in love to look at the Holy Scriptures today with a fresh new pair of eyes. Before you begin, I would like you to take a moment and pray. I would like for you to pray to the Lord and ask Him for wisdom and understanding before reading what I am about to share with you in love involving the Scriptures. For I write this because I love you in Christ Jesus.
Side Note: Did you pray yet? Did you really do it? Please do so now if you have not done so. Anyways, may the Lord's love and goodness be upon you this day that the Lord has made.​

Why I Think Christmas is Not Biblical.

#1. Christmas is not celebrated anywhere in the Bible.

(a) Jesus is not a baby right now but He is our risen Lord.​

​

We are never told to honor just a baby Jesus alone,​

but we are told to live unto a risen Lord (2 Corinthians 5:15).​

Focusing on a baby version of Jesus (without mentioning the resurrection of Christ in our message) is to take the focus off of our risen Lord Jesus Christ. If our message does not include a risen Christ, then our preaching is in vain according to Paul:​

"And if Christ be not risen,​

then is our preaching vain,​

and your faith is also vain." (1 Corinthians 15:14).​

Tell me, does Christmas focus on a risen Lord or does it focus on His birth?​

​

(b) While there are biblical clues to Christ's birth date, the date of Christ's birth is nowhere specifically mentioned in the Bible and oddly his birth is coincidentally placed upon the date of the worship of other pagan gods, and a popular pagan festival, instead.​

​

Is it okay to worship God in any way we like? In Genesis 4, we see Cain trying to bring the harvest of the ground unto God as a sacrifice instead of offering an animal sacrifice like his brother Abel did correctly (See Genesis 4:3-7). Cain's offering was not accepted. His worship was not accepted. Why? Because he was doing his own thing. Cain grew angry and decided to kill his own brother over this. Friend, do you hate or dislike Christians who do not keep Christ-mass?​

Jesus says he seeks for those who will worship Him in spirit and in truth (John 4:24). Are we worshiping in truth if there are some pagan elements (which are a lie) mixed in with the truth? Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life? (John 14:6). Jesus said, "You shall worship the Lord your God, and him only shalt you serve." (Luke 4:8). But how can we worship God alone if we are involving pagan elements in our worship of Him. Was not Cain's offering of doing whatever he wanted not accepted by God? (See Genesis 4:5). Was Cain truly worshiping God alone by being obedient to him or was he worshiping God his own way?​

#2. Christmas Trees.

​

21 Thou shalt not plant thee a grove of any trees near unto the altar of the Lord thy God, which thou shalt make thee.​

22 Neither shalt thou set thee up any image; which the Lord thy God hateth."​

(Deuteronomy 16:21).​

​

2 "Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.​

3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.​

4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not." (Jeremiah 10:2-4).​

​

Celts and druids (witches) believe trees are sacred or magical objects.​

Meaning, they holds some kind of significance spiritually for them.​

​

Even if you did not put up trees yourself.​

You cannot stop others from doing so.​

Christmas trees is about the holiday (holy day) season.​

Some people sing praises to the Christmas tree (without thinking about it) in Christmas carols. People give attention to a beautiful object and put presents around it (like a gift or offering) to this beautiful object. Some people dance around the Christmas tree. Sure seems like harmless fun, but what if the Bible is really condemning trees?​

Also, why would you want to imitate a practice that is similar to the druids and put up a sacred special tree in your home?​

Sure, they may not think it is a god or idol exactly because your not bowing down to it or praying to it, but does that mean we can just put statues of demonic idols in our home and God would be okay with that?​

#3. Do not imitate the heathen's ways or men's traditions.

Colossians 2:8 says,​

"Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."​

​

Is Christmas something in the Bible or is it more like a tradition of men and or after the rudiments of the world? Think about it. Should we let a world recognized holiday tell us how we are to worship our Lord? Or do we let the Bible alone tell us how we are to worship our Lord?​

​

"Don't copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think. Then you will learn to know God's will for you, which is good and pleasing and perfect." (Romans 12:2) (NLT).​

​

"...Learn not the way of the heathen,..." (Jeremiah 10:2).​

​

But it has Jesus in the holiday and we focus on Jesus, so it is okay, right?​

​

It is written,​

​

"For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him." (2 Corinthians 11:4).​

​

Paul is saying to bear with them that preach another Jesus. He does not say to embrace another Jesus in whom they have not preached.​

​

The Jesus that is being preached in Christmas is a baby Jesus and how we must give honor to Him by exchanging gifts (sometimes going into debt) around a Christmas tree.​

​

In fact, 9 out of the 11 times the word "tradition" appears in the King James Bible, it is in reference to the traditions of men that were bad and not good (See this link here at BlueLetterBible). In fact, Jesus says that men were transgressing God's commands by their man made traditions. Christmas is a human tradition of man and it is nowhere to be found within the Scriptures; And we are told not to imitate the way of the heathen or the customs of the world. Christmas is very much a custom or celebration of the world.​

#4. True Giving vs Christmas Giving.

Do not give out of compulsion. For Paul says,​

​

"You must each decide in your heart how much to give. And don't give reluctantly or in response to pressure. "For God loves a person who gives cheerfully.""​

(2 Corinthians 9:7) (NLT).​

​

Yet, Christmas is a time where you feel compelled to give out of pressure.​

​

Christmas is also a time when it is about the exchange of gifts.​

​

Yet, Jesus says,​

Give without expecting anything in return.​

For do not sinners love their own?​

For sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.​

​

"And if you lend to them of whom you hope to receive, what thanks have you? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again. (Luke 6:34).​

​

32 "For if you love them who love you, what thanks have you? for sinners also love those that love them.​

33 And if you do good to them who do good to you, what thanks have you? for sinners also do even the same." (Luke 6:32-33).​

​

"But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward shall be great, and you shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil." (Luke 6:35).​

​

12 "Then said he also to him that bade him, When you give a dinner or a supper, call not your friends, nor your brethren, neither your kinsmen, nor your rich neighbors; lest they also bid you again, and a recompense be made you.​

13 But when you give a feast, call the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind:​

14 And you shall be blessed; for they cannot recompense you: for you shall be recompensed at the resurrection of the just." (Luke 14:12-14).​

​

8 "And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord; Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken anything from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.​

9 And Jesus said unto him, "This day is salvation come to this house,...""​

(Luke 19:8-9).​

#5. The focus of Christmas is materialism and not the worship of Christ on this day.

Most do not actually celebrate Jesus's birth on this day but they actually focus more on the gift giving and the decorating and in celebrating or having a good time with their family. For when the holidays come, do you prepare yourself in prayer, fasting, reading Scripture in order to worship Christ on Christmas? Or are you more focused on buying things for others and in getting together with your family to just have a good time? An insane amount of money is spent on Christmas each year and people have gone into financial debt as a result of it. Others beat each other up in department stores all in the spirit of Christmas. Is such a material focused holiday really something that is of God? How are you honoring Christ's birth truly? Are you focusing on those Scripture verses on the Nativity each year as a family? Do you and your family feel like you are drawing closer to God each year by celebrating the Lord's birth? Or is it more about the stuff with you saying that you are honoring Christ? I say this not to get you or anyone else here upset, but I say this as a means to examine yourself in your walk with the Lord in everything you do. To prove to you that Christmas is not materialistic, just tell your kids next year that they are not getting any gifts and watch their reaction. They have depended on being rich with things and not rich in the things of God. For some even look forward to Christmas just so as to receive money. However, the Bible says,​

10 "For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.​

11 But you, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness." (1 Timothy 6:3-4).​

​

#6. Be ye holy and separate from the world.

Atheists, psychics, and people of many faiths celebrate Christmas. It is the one time of year where everyone gets together to give and whereby some say they are doing it to honor Christ's birth. Everyone is one big happy family celebrating and exchanging gifts and excited over their newly received material goods. Everyone including Christ haters are celebrating Christmas along with Christ lovers. There is even an Atheist Christmas Carol (See here and or here). But the Bible says be ye holy (1 Peter 1:16), and be ye separate (2 Corinthians 6:17). The Bible says what fellowship does light have with darkness? (2 Corinthians 6:14). For it is written,​

17 "This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,​

18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:​

19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.​

20 But ye have not so learned Christ;​

21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:" (Ephesians 4:17-21).​

​

#7. Love not the things of this world.

In 1 John 2:15-17, it says love not the world, neither the things in this world, if any man loves the world, the love of the Father is not in them.​

​

Christmas is technically a thing of this world. It is world recognized holiday.​

But if you tell people you stopped celebrating Christmas, expect some hateful comments from people. Why?​

​

"If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you." (John 15:19).​

​

Colossians 3:1-3 says,​

​

"Since you were raised from the dead with Christ, aim at what is in heaven, where Christ is sitting at the right hand of God. Think only about the things in heaven, not the things on earth. Your old sinful self has died, and your new life is kept with Christ in God."​

​

Christmas is not something that is celebrated in Heaven. We are to think about the things in Heaven or above and not on the things of this Earth. Our focus should be on building ourselves up in righteousness, love, and faith according to God's Word and not according to the wisdom or ways of men.​

Anyways, I say all this in love and with the hope you will investigate the origins of Christmas on your own and seek the Scriptures with God in deep prayer and fasting on this matter. I know that if you will seek the truth, God will show it to you. Again, I say these things not condemn or hurt anyone but I say these things in love so as to answer the call of God in your Sanctification in being truly holy for the Lord. So..."Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." (Matthew 5:16).

Personally I don’t see anything wrong with celebrating Christ’s birth on Christmas and celebrating His resurrection on Easter. As for what “some people” do on Christmas I would also point out that some people sing praises of Christ on Christmas Day as well. We shouldn’t concern ourselves with things that “some people” may do on Christmas, we should just be concerned with what we do. If what we do is in honor and love for Christ and each other then it’s a good thing.

 

[Bobber]

​

Why I Think Christmas is Not Biblical.

#1. Christmas is not celebrated anywhere in the Bible.

So? If I wanted to make a day where we think about the goodness of God why should you think it would upset him? Are you against Thanksgiving Day too?

We are never told to honor just a baby Jesus alone,​

but we are told to live unto a risen Lord (2 Corinthians 5:15).​

So your argument is because God never told us to do a certain thing that means he's against it? And who says Christians are just honoring a baby alone. They also think about Easter (all though of course we don't care for the term) but we think of his cross and his whole life.

Focusing on a baby version of Jesus (without mentioning the resurrection of Christ in our message) is to take the focus off of our risen Lord Jesus Christ.​

Why so. In talking about Jesus coming to the earth you're actually as well talking about why he came to be he Savior of the World. Surely you know a lot of Christmas carols refer to that?

Tell me, does Christmas focus on a risen Lord or does it focus on His birth?​

It all depends on who's telling the message. Jesus the Savor came into this would and died for our sins after 30 or so years.

​

(b) While there are biblical clues to Christ's birth date, the date of Christ's birth is nowhere specifically mentioned in the Bible and oddly his birth is coincidentally placed upon the date of the worship of other pagan gods, and a popular pagan festival, instead.​

So what? Would if not be better to cover over a pagan god celebration with the true God one?

​

Is it okay to worship God in any way we like?​

Well the Wise Men came with gifts to worship God and that's where the idea came for giving gifts at Christmas. Why should y ou think God would be so bent out of shape over this? He's also aware if you didn't have Christmas people still would be buying things everyone needs for each other. Why should you think he'd be against the world making up a certain day?

But how can we worship God alone if we are involving pagan elements in our worship of Him.​

You're being extreme on the pagan elements thing if you're talking about a Christmas tree. People in our culture are not worshipping them. It's no different then having a pretty plant in ones home. Are you against that?

​

#2. Christmas Trees.

​

21 Thou shalt not plant thee a grove of any trees near unto the altar of the Lord thy God, which thou shalt make thee.​

Nobody in our culture is worshipping a tree.

Some people sing praises to the Christmas tree (without thinking about it) in Christmas carols​

You mean because of a song like "Oh Christmas Tree" you would call that worshipping a tree? And when it say, "We learn from all your beauty" are you believing people are serious about that? It's nothing more than a fun joke.

Sure, they may not think it is a god or idol exactly because your not bowing down to it or praying to it, but does that mean we can just put statues of demonic idols in our home and God would be okay with that?​

So think about what you're saying. Are you therefore opposed to any nice looking plant being in the home too? Let me tell you....years ago we had a purple wandering Jew plant (it's called) in a basket hanging from a hook above. Then we put a plant underneath it at Christmas....then we decorated it....people couldn't tell is was even two plants.....I'd tell them to look at it close. They'd say WOW that's two plants and not even a tree! So I ask you what about plants then? If it's not a tree you're OK with that?

The Jesus that is being preached in Christmas is a baby Jesus​

As I said people can go beyond just talking about Jesus the baby and can talk about how he became the Savior.

​

 

[Jipsah]

If we were able to kill Christmas, we'd be able to institute the Holy Days that were ordained and commanded to be kept by God himself.

Translates to "we cou;ld abandon the celebration of the Advent of God Incarnate and instead celebrate with the pre-Christian feasts given tothe Jews."

Pass.

Christmas is truly misery

So much for"O come all ye faithful, joyful and triumphant.... Come and behold Him,born the King of angels...Come and adore Him, Christ the Lord!", right? Pure. Best to adandon all that Christ-centered "misery".

Pass.

oly Days lay out God's salvation plan; there's no need for 'another gospel'

Or the Gospel at all, sounds like. It's all right there in the Old Testament.

, which Paul doubly cursed both man or angel who should preach another gospel than the one they were given.

Strange that you want to turn our focus back to the Law and away from our Lord Christ, don't you think?

 

[The Liturgist]

Translates to "we cou;ld abandon the celebration of the Advent of God Incarnate and instead celebrate with the pre-Christian feasts given tothe Jews."

Pass.



So much for"O come all ye faithful, joyful and triumphant.... Come and behold Him,born the King of angels...Come and adore Him, Christ the Lord!", right? Pure. Best to adandon all that Christ-centered "misery".

Pass.


Or the Gospel at all, sounds like. It's all right there in the Old Testament.

Strange that you want to turn our focus back to the Law and away from our Lord Christ, don't you think?

Well said.

 

[Jipsah]

Your practice of Christmas (the Orthodox version) is not biblical.

What are the Biblical specs for the worship of our Lord Christ? You argument sounds like one that's opposed to Christuan worship in general, and certainly no Christian feasts.

Again, this is unbiblical. Please cease of such activities immediately.

Sorry,already have my seats reserved for Lessons and Carols at All Saints in Sewanee. We'll be worshipping Christ. You're free to do whatever else it is you usually do at the beginning of Advent. Something really spiritual, I'm sure.

Well, that is if you are a Bible believer alone like me.

Bible believer, yes; like you, obviously not.

I get no indication we are to follow extra biblical traditions by men

So no Christiian feasts or celebrations. Sorry mate, IMO that's simply rubbish.

Celebrating a one time occurence of a unique event does not mean one should repeat that event when such does not apply anymore.

I.E., the coming of our Lord wasn't all that big a deal. Nothing to get worked up about.

Jesus did not remain as a baby

Do tell. Did He do anything else of note IYO? I'm sure you forbid the celetration of His glorious Resurrection as well, don't you? After all, it was just this one event...

Stop doing it.

So you can hear the rocks cry out?

 

[prodromos]

Not claiming to be an expert on your version of Christmas. But you call it Christmas and you said things in your celebration that I see in the secular worldly version of it. But no. Your practice of Christmas (the Orthodox version) is not biblical. There is nowhere in Scripture that such a practice is found. All you got is the wisemen coming to worship Jesus as a baby, but they did not continue this practice after He was grown up or anything.



It matters because they have related elements. You also call it Christmas because my thread which obviously addresses the worldly version of it has drawn your attention.



Again, this is unbiblical. Please cease of such activities immediately.
Well, that is if you are a Bible believer alone like me.
I get no indication we are to follow extra biblical traditions by men and this practice comes from books that are divine in origin.
I can prove the Bible is divine in origin, but with your church, are they infallible?


That’s good. It prevents any dogs from ruining any carpets and helps to prevent any unnecessary house fires.



The one video said it was due to not watering the tree enough or something.
In either case, it is a waste of money and unnecessary to partake of such practices.


Celebrating a one time occurence of a unique event does not mean one should repeat that event when such does not apply anymore. Jesus did not remain as a baby and nor did the Incarnation keep transpiring every year repeatedly for such a thing to happen, either.



This is what you have been told, but it is not in the Bible. If it is not in the Bible it is only hear say of what men say. They are not infallible like the Bible is.



Stop doing it. It’s not in the Bible. Nowhere do we see the disciples make a practice of worshiping Jesus as a baby after He was an adult.

Being "Bible only" is unbiblical. It is a man made dogma.

 

[The Liturgist]

Again, this is unbiblical. Please cease of such activities immediately.

Fat chance of that happening I should say.

This is what you have been told, but it is not in the Bible. If it is not in the Bible it is only hear say of what men say. They are not infallible like the Bible is.

The Orthodox Church wrote the New Testament, so I consider them to be in rather a better position to exegete it than yourself.

Actually by the way your approach is a conflation of sola scriptura with sufficiency of scripture, perspicuity of scripture, and the Calvinist “Regulative Principle” of worship which most Calvinist churches have abandoned (aside from the Covenanting Churches like the RPCNA, of which @Jipsah might be familiar).

This is why so many Sola Scriptura churches continue to celebrate Christmas without violating the principle of Sola Scriptura, since Sola scriptura does not require the rejection of ecclesiastical tradition.

 

[friend of]

Yeah I think I'm going to continue to celebrate Christ's birth at Christmas time.

 

[The Liturgist]

The usual accusative, judgmental litany of out-of-context proof texts. I have been a Christian since LBJ was president and have never seen a Christmas tree as part of a Christian worship service.
Luke 18:10-14
#1. Christmas is not celebrated anywhere in the Bible.
Irrelevant. I know some folks who think musical instruments are evil because they are not mentioned in the NT. I wonder how many other things we can find that are observed which are not mentioned anywhere in the Bible.
#2. Christmas Trees.
Stop a 100 people at random on the street and ask them if they have a Christmas tree because Druids or some other group 100s of years ago supposedly worshipped trees?
#3. Do not imitate the heathen's ways or men's traditions.
See #2 Christmas trees, lights, wreaths etc. are NOT copied from heathens etc.
Let me show how silly this point is. Should Christians stop eating beef because Hindus consider cows sacred?
#4. True Giving vs Christmas Giving.
More judgmental accusations. How does giving gifts at Christmas or any other time equal "not true giving?"
#5. The focus of Christmas is materialism and not the worship of Christ on this day.
Nonsense! Christians are not responsible for how contemporary society has appropriated and commercialized the celebration of birth of the savior or anything else.
#6. Be ye holy and separate from the world.
How does observing the birth of the savior make anyone not holy and not separate from the world?
#7. Love not the things of this world.
How does observing the birth of the Savior equal loving the things of this world?

Thank you, my stalwart friend, for this contribution. You are a great man and a hero to me, even though we are from different denominational backgrounds.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Bible alone?

So if the Bible is not alone your authority, then what else is?
Do you receive visions? Do you believe God talks to you in the fact that you hear His voice audibly?
Do you follow some other holy book besides the Bible similar to the Mormons, etcetera?
In other words, when you criticize the Bible alone position, you open Pandora’s box to all kinds of problems.

Where does the Bible say that we can use computers, smartphones, cars?

While one could incorporate worship with those things, the use of computers, smartphones, cars do not instantly equate with how one worships or uplifts the Lord. Christmas is supposed to be the observance of baby Jesus if your Christian. Not sure why I have to even explain this difference to you seeing it obvious they are different things.

Where does the Bible say that we should go into a building once a week to worship God and receive whatever portion of the Bible that the preacher wants to bring to us?

Right, I am for house churches actually because that is what we see in the New Testament primarily.
That’s the point I am getting at. We should follow the best we can what the Bible says.

Where does it say that clergy should be ordained/wear dog collars?

If church leader or member is wearing a spiked dog collar I am immediately leaving that place. Granted, again, I am more for home church fellowship because that is what we see primarily in the New Testament.

Where does the Bible say that there even is a Bible - never mind one preferred translation of it?

If you really want to know the answer, check out this video here:

Side Note:

So you don’t believe the Bible is sufficient for all matters of faith and practice?
We need to be born again by the Communicated Word.

Like I said, the Bible doesn't comment on any of the above, either.

Uh, then you haven’t read the Bible or you don’t recall what it said.
Jesus condemns the traditions of men in Scripture.

a) The birth of Christ applies every day - we should constantly remind ourselves that God chose to be born, as we are, to enter our world and to walk alongside us. We do not have a god who sits on a cloud and deals with us remotely, untouched by our pain, sin and difficulties. Our God understands because he has been there. He understands our sorrow, disappointment, frustration, joy, deepest longings and fervent prayers - he has been there, done that, worn the t shirt.

There was no T-shirts back then.
Plus it is insulting to say Jesus got a T-shirt. This belittles what He did for us. Relating Jesus’ suffering to minor struggles men conquer whereby they would get a T-shirt as a part of their reward is no real comparison. In any event, your musings on observing Christ’s birth are still not found in Scripture.

b) Would you apply that argument to communion? Jesus told his disciples to regularly repeat/re-enact the Last Supper. The original meal is long over and, apart from Jesus, all those present are dead.

Well, that is because we are told to observe the last supper repeatedly. So not the same thing.

No one said that he did.
You did not remain a baby either - nor have your children, if you have any.
I trust that you don't celebrate your own birthday and, if you had/have children, told them that now they have been born there is no need to keep remembering/celebrating the fact? I trust that you deprived them of going to other children's birthday parties, and receiving Christmas presents? I trust that, if you have a wife, you have told her that there is no need to keep celebrating the day you said "I do"?

At the end of the day, our obedience to God is what the Lord desires from us.
Remember, Jesus said if you love me, keep my commandments.
Also, honoring a minor holiday involving humans is not the same as trying to bring God into the mix.
For example: When make a joke, it should be towards only other humans and one should never make jokes about God or His Word.
In other words, when you invent an imaginary holiday for God you are involving an element of worship of some kind with God.
Jesus says we are to worship in spirit and truth. Christmas is actually not a practice found in the Bible. So one is not worshiping on the day in truth. Then again, I get it. One has a family, and they don’t want to offend their family over following Christ.

The KJV isn't in the Bible. Stop using it.

The KJV was THE Bible here in America from the 1800s to the early 1960s.
The KJV (Aitkens Bible) was the first printed Bible here in America and it was endorsed by Congress.
Granted, the Aitkens Bible did not succeed, but other KJVs took up the helm quickly after.
But the point here is that faith comes by hearing, and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17).
If one does not have a Bible, they don’t have the faith and therefore, one is not born again by water or the communicated Word of God.
Jesus said we need to be born of water to enter the Kingdom.
So if one appears to speak against the revelation known as the Bible, I would greatly worry about them.

In all Jesus' teachings He referred to the divine authority of the Old Testament (Matthew 5:17-18; Matthew 8:17;Matthew 12:40-42; Luke 4:18-21; Luke 10:25-28; Luke 15:29-31; Luke 17:32; Luke 24:25-45; John 5:39-47). He quoted the Old Testament 78 times, the Pentateuch alone 26 times. He quoted from Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Deuteronomy, Psalms, Proverbs, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Amos, Jonah, Micah, and Malachi. He referred to the Old Testament as “The Scriptures,” “the word of God,” and “the wisdom of God.” Jesus defeated the devil by using Scripture. For three words, "It is written" was said 3 times by Jesus in Matthew 4:1-11. This is confirmed by Ephesians 6 with how the Sword of the Spirit is the Word of God which is an offensive weapon you are to take up when putting on the armor of God so that one can stand against the wiles of the devil (Ephesians 6:11, 16). For the Living Word (Jesus) is like a two edged sword that divides asunder the soul and the spirit because He always speaks the words of God because He is God (Hebrews 4:12).

I know this wasn't addressed to me, but when someone says that I/we should stop doing something that they disapprove of, it makes me want to go and do it all the more.

Jesus said, "Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness," (Matthew 19:18).

You were saying?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Personally I don’t see anything wrong with celebrating Christ’s birth on Christmas and celebrating His resurrection on Easter. As for what “some people” do on Christmas I would also point out that some people sing praises of Christ on Christmas Day as well. We shouldn’t concern ourselves with things that “some people” may do on Christmas, we should just be concerned with what we do. If what we do is in honor and love for Christ and each other then it’s a good thing.

Our concern in what we do involves what?

2 Timothy 4:2 says,
"Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine."

My case with the Bible stands on Christmas but I am not expecting those who are knee deep in Christmas to see it if they are not willing to give it up to follow Jesus. To many today, following Jesus according to His Word alone is foolishness. The Christmas Jesus is not the same Jesus of the Bible because he would not endorse secular worldly holidays that have bad fruits attached to them. Such fruits on Christmas are greed, materialism, giving under compulsion, promotion of gluttony, etcetera.

During the Christmas season, two significant lies often circulate, which Jesus would not agree with. The first is the belief that Jesus was born on December 25th. The second involves the existence of a figure named "Father Christmas" or "Santa Claus" who delivers gifts to children on Christmas. These deceptions are often attributed to falsehoods, and Jesus himself referred to the origin of lies in the following passage from the book of John (8:44): "When he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Fat chance of that happening I should say.

We will not all live forever. So it will not last forever.
So yes. It will cease one day.
Then you will have to explain yourself to the Lord Jesus why did not obey His Word and you followed what some church group says instead. I know. You probably don’t think that is going to happen, but it will unless you change, my friend.
I have a more sure Word of prophecy. You don’t.

The Orthodox Church wrote the New Testament, so I consider them to be in rather a better position to exegete it than yourself.

I disagree strongly for many reasons but it is not me who can ultimately convince you.
Only the Lord can change your mind by the Word if you are open to it.
Most simply don’t want the truth to change.
They have invented their own truth.

Actually by the way your approach is a conflation of sola scriptura with sufficiency of scripture, perspicuity of scripture, and the Calvinist “Regulative Principle” of worship which most Calvinist churches have abandoned (aside from the Covenanting Churches like the RPCNA, of which @Jipsah might be familiar).

This is why so many Sola Scriptura churches continue to celebrate Christmas without violating the principle of Sola Scriptura, since Sola scriptura does not require the rejection of ecclesiastical tradition.

It matters not what some church or group does. What matters is…… "What saith the Scriptures?“
If this is not the guide for a person’s life in all aspects, then they should not even regard the Bible at all.
They must choose which master they really want to serve.

Revelation 3:15
"I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot."

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Being "Bible only" is unbiblical. It is a man made dogma.

I am actually for the position of, “Bible Alone + the Anointing to Understand it.”
But I know you disagree with even that.