Why I Think Christmas is Not Biblical (Please read OP before posting).

[LoveGodsWord]

Sola Scriptura literally means by scripture alone, I’d the doctrine was true it wouldn’t be hard to find it in the Bible somewhere. All those verses prove the value of scripture not its value as the sole authority. There’s a difference between man made tradition and Apostolic tradition. No Apostolic tradition breaks the commandments of God.

If that had any truth in it there would have been no reformation and everyone would be following the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church (RCC). Yet the whole reason for the reformation was that the RCC surplanted its own traditions and teachings that broke the commandments of God and were leading God's people away from God's WORD. Jesus says those who follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God are not following God *MATTHEW 15:3-9.

 

[Not David]

The Christ DYING - because He is [The Word of] God - and all of the implications and applications of the Most High God becoming flesh so that He may sacrifice Himself for us to have life again is a main part of the point. It is the Passover.

The Word of God resurrecting by consequence of His perfection as Son of Man is the Firstfruit.

Either way, the Most High God gave us days to celebrate these things, and it is not a Birthday. Adam was a son of God and he lost it; the much bigger issue is the Word of God made flesh died perfectly, and therefore resurrected.

So do you think it wouldn't have mattered if Jesus was a human being until later on in his life? Because that's what Christians were defending during the first centuries of the Church.
The Most High God gave us a Church who is "the pillar and foundation of truth" (1 Timothy 3:15) not 300 thousand denomination with all of them being different from each other.

 

[Kaon]

So do you think it wouldn't have mattered if Jesus was a human being until later on in his life? Because that's what Christians were defending during the first centuries of the Church.
The Most High God gave us a Church who is "the pillar and foundation of truth" (1 Timothy 3:15) not 300 thousand denomination with all of them being different from each other.

The Redeemer would not have been the Redeemer if He was simply human, and wasn't killed as a Perfect Son of Man. He is guaranteed by the Most High God's Law to live because He was Perfectly Obedient. The fact that He was killed despite being perfect is the passover - yes, more important than His birth.

Why? Because if Christ had given into temptation at any time, His birthday would have been vanity anyway - He would have been a son of man, and we would have no redeemer. That He died unlawfully according to the Most High God (Passover), and that He resurrected as a consequence of that perfection (Firstfruit) dramatically outweighs His birthday - especially since the Most High God told us to hold Passover and Firstfruit as holy convocations. He didn't make any mention of His birthday - that is something men adopted.


The Truth is the Redeemer Himself. The Word of God is a Living Entity, and it is the Word of God - not a canon, denomination or doctrine.

 

[Eloy Craft]

When I see ... I wonder what was left out of the quote. New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge, Vol. III: Chamier - Draendorf - Christian Classics Ethereal Library

I do not take those Encyclopedia entries as serious scholarship.

"As Ehrman writes, “We know very little about mystery religions – the whole point of mystery religions is that they’re secret! So I think it’s crazy to build on ignorance in order to make a claim like this.”"23 Reasons Why Scholars Know Jesus Is Not A Copy Of Pagan Religions.

Thank you for posting the links Daniel.

 

[Tyler82]

You wouldn't have to ask this question if you didn't practice this tradition of man anyway - which is exactly what it is. Birthdates are astrological and used for magic; laypeople believe it is just a celebratory day representing the Day one came out of the birth canal. Day of conception would be more appropriate, but no one believe life begins then.


When you apply worldly things to something already fixed, you get a messed up product. When your "fixed thing" is Christ, it becomes abominable. You are arguing emotion right now.

Your Father warned you several times about being in the world, and doing abominable things dressed up as holy. I am not going to argue you down; you do what you want to do. My job isn't to save YOUR soul because someone has already given you a way with better directions.


And let me just say this about your point: people are of ignorant of the world around them all of the time:

You likely wouldn't know Saturn if you saw a black cube rotating counter-clockwise on an axial point, a hobeycomb, or a hexagonal mapping.

You think the stuff is ridiculous, which is why if anyone is into it YOU would be easily exploitable. You wouldn't be able to see the astrological connection between your birthday and prominent persons, and how that is exploited against you by people who use real magick (whether you believe or not). Laypersons believe they know about the "silliness" of occultology, but I can tell you wouldn't know what abominations are around you. If you can't see the symbols of Christmas painfully boring an offensive hole in your spirit, then you can't understand why people are attacking the enemy, and not you or your pet holiday. If you can't immediately see what image, for example, an evergreen with a star on top represents in geometry, and occultology, then you don't know your enemy fully. Arguing with people who are seemingly attacking your fav/personally invested worldly holiday is par the course; I did it against people saying this 20 years ago, before I came to.

The Most High God gave us several holy days to follow, and we as a lot ignore ALL of them. He never mentioned celebrating birthdays; as important as it is, Christ never mentioned His. We do the worldly celebrations specifically abominable to Him, and then we have the audacity to ask if HE CARES when our lives are in chaos. Moreover, whenever someone on a layperson Christian TEAM tries to tell you something, it is taken as a twisting and heretical assault - not concern or care.

Not only that, but our eyes are crusted over - keeping many from seeing how they are being exploited by the enemy they help. So, do what you want to do. It is your life, mind, and you choose how to rationalize it all.

God bless you too. I'll say a prayer you don't trip over your tassels.

 

[prodromos]

Do you know who else doesn't like Christmas?
After the Russian Revolution, the God hating athiests banned Christmas in 1917.

Since Jason's argument basically boils down to "guilty by association", I guess that puts Jason in the same boat as those who hate God.

 

[Kaon]

God bless you too. I'll say a prayer you don't trip over your tassels.

?

 

[Kaon]

Do you know who else doesn't like Christmas?
After the Russian Revolution, the God hating athiests banned Christmas in 1917.

Since Jason's argument basically boils down to "guilty by association", I guess that puts Jason in the same boat as those who hate God.

That is unfair. I wouldn't be a part of this thread if Jason was superficially attacking Christmas with no basis or merit. This is a mixed-company forum with atheists, theists and deists, agnostics and a plethora of denominational and non-denominational Christians. This is a sensitive topic, because people have children, and they have to reconcile how close they are to the holiday, their life without the day, what such a thing would mean for their faith and the merit of their denomination - it is an existential challenge.

That is why he is getting push-back, which is par the course when anyone tries to challenge doctrine, and traditions.


But, to say that he hates God, or is part of the lot that allegedly did is a bit absurd. At best, he is challenging the status quo of culture and religion through what seems like convictions of his spirit. One of the reasons why I have been so vocal on this thread is because people have been attacking the OP, and saying basically saying the same thing that you have - that he is a God-hater. But, Jason doesn't need my help; he hasn't needed any help throughout this thread. I think he is asking the right questions, and every Christian should have the same questions.

If people can swallow emotion for a while, and look at this from a spiritual perspective, then it would be much clearer, and there would be much less pretense and offense. But as I said, the natural reaction is to reject it since it is an existential issue.

 

[Eloy Craft]

He is guaranteed by the Most High God's Law to live because He was Perfectly Obedient. The fact that He was killed despite being perfect is the passover - yes, more important than His birth.

the Incarnation of God is the efficient Cause of the Resurrection. It wasn't necessary for God to die for Him to enter into eternal life. That was necessary for us. He is the only one who had life to give. That life had to be made flesh and in that instant our Salvation was made visible. God cannot fail. The Ressurection was guaranteed at the instant The Word became Incarnate. Jesus didn't become Our Savior, He came as Our Savior.

 

[prodromos]

But, to say that he hates God, or is part of the lot that allegedly did is a bit absurd.

That is the point. His whole argument is absurd.

One of the reasons why I have been so vocal on this thread is because people have been attacking the OP, and saying basically saying the same thing that you have - that he is a God-hater.

I have never, nor would I, call him a God-hater. It is the logical outcome of HIS argument, but it is not what I claim at all.

 

[Not David]

The Redeemer would not have been the Redeemer if He was simply human, and wasn't killed as a Perfect Son of Man. He is guaranteed by the Most High God's Law to live because He was Perfectly Obedient. The fact that He was killed despite being perfect is the passover - yes, more important than His birth.

Why? Because if Christ had given into temptation at any time, His birthday would have been vanity anyway - He would have been a son of man, and we would have no redeemer. That He died unlawfully according to the Most High God (Passover), and that He resurrected as a consequence of that perfection (Firstfruit) dramatically outweighs His birthday - especially since the Most High God told us to hold Passover and Firstfruit as holy convocations. He didn't make any mention of His birthday - that is something men adopted.


The Truth is the Redeemer Himself. The Word of God is a Living Entity, and it is the Word of God - not a canon, denomination or doctrine.

I care for both Birth and Resurrection but I'm sure people will complain around Pascha/Easter calling it pagan.
So Paul was lying?

 

[Kaon]

I care for both Birth and Resurrection but I'm sure people will complain around Pascha/Easter calling it pagan.
So Paul was lying?

Any human who contradicts the Word of God is mistaken at best, and lying at worst.

Passover is a very specific celebration with a very specific date. It is not the same as Easter, but I won't go into it on this thread.

You can care for both the birth and resurrection; I am sure many people cared deeply for the birth of Christ. However, Christ isn't a sun god; the celebration of a birth is a tradition of man. Name one place where the Most High God ever said to celebrate a birth day, or Christ's birth day.

 

[Kaon]

That is the point. His whole argument is absurd.

The argument is absurd to you. That is a personal issue; there have been plenty of replies with information, resources, bible verses and opinion that have supported the OP.

I have never, nor would I, call him a God-hater. It is the logical outcome of HIS argument, but it is not what I claim at all.

You are using double speak to stay within the rules.

Since Jason's argument basically boils down to "guilty by association", I guess that puts Jason in the same boat as those who hate God.
​

You used your opinion to justify your prejudice against the OP - and you directly said he was in the same boat as those who hate God.

 

[Kaon]

the Incarnation of God is the efficient Cause of the Resurrection. It wasn't necessary for God to die for Him to enter into eternal life. That was necessary for us.

Then where is the reason for the sacrifice, and the humiliation He went through coming all the way down to Son of Man to walk like us and among us?

The Death of the Son of Man was foretold since Genesis 3:15; the entire point of salvation through sacrifice is to have a sacrifice.

Of course the Most High God doesn't need to die to attain eternal life; that wasn't the point of His coming. His point was to die as a PERFECT Son of Man - thereby literally Resurrecting as a Son of Man, being fully justified by the Most High God, and vindicating the human race by doing what Adam 1 couldn't do. This is the Passover and Firstfruit.

He is the only one who had life to give. That life had to be made flesh and in that instant our Salvation was made visible. God cannot fail. The Ressurection was guaranteed at the instant The Word became Incarnate. Jesus didn't become Our Savior, He came as Our Savior.

Of course His resurrection was guaranteed, and of course He was always our Savior. But nowhere in the bible did the Most High God ever say to celebrate His birthday. The pagans and heathens (ethnics other than Hebrew) do that tradition. However, the Most High God told us several times to celebrate the Passover, and to expect/watch for Sukkot.

Not a birthday. And, this is especially true since no one actually knows His birthday; it has been estimates with nothing from the Word of God Himself. However, Passover and Sukkot are precisely measured and kept days that can be observed without any type of human calendar system.

Of course the Most High God cant fail; this was already founded from the beginning.

 

[Not David]

Any human who contradicts the Word of God is mistaken at best, and lying at worst.

Passover is a very specific celebration with a very specific date. It is not the same as Easter, but I won't go into it on this thread.

You can care for both the birth and resurrection; I am sure many people cared deeply for the birth of Christ. However, Christ isn't a sun god; the celebration of a birth is a tradition of man. Name one place where the Most High God ever said to celebrate a birth day, or Christ's birth day.

Going by the Bible alone is a tradition of men. You won't find any place on the Bible that says "Go by the Bible alone" because it wasn't joint together with the way you know it until some centuries after Christ even in 367 with Athanasius while the first mention of Christmas is in 204 by Hippolytus of Rome.

 

[prodromos]

The argument is absurd to you. That is a personal issue; there have been plenty of replies with information, resources, bible verses and opinion that have supported the OP.

Actually, it was you who said the argument was absurd.

You are using double speak to stay within the rules.

Since Jason's argument basically boils down to "guilty by association", I guess that puts Jason in the same boat as those who hate God.
​

You used your opinion to justify your prejudice against the OP - and you directly said he was in the same boat as those who hate God.

Riding in a boat with atheists does not make you and atheist. You are simply using the same vehicle.

 

[Kaon]

Going by the Bible alone is a tradition of men. You won't find any place on the Bible that says "Go by the Bible alone" because it wasn't joint together with the way you know it until some centuries after Christ even in 367 with Athanasius while the first mention of Christmas is in 204 by Hippolytus of Rome.

The Word of God is the One we call Christ - or the Redeemer. The bible is a canon; I would hope no one only goes by the bible canon alone. The Most High God gave us the Comforter, and the New covenant was given by Him in Jeremiah as a promise to us so that we wouldn't have to ask our neighbors if they knew God. Your relationship with the Most High God should be just like your earthly father. Sure, you know things about him and what he expects on paper, but you don't need paper/canonical text to tell you who your father is. The Spirit of the Most High God instructs through any obstacle; a person on a deserted island can absolutely receive the Word of God if He pours His spirit on them.


Men telling men how to live spiritually is laughable; the Spirit of the Most High God does the work of feeding, raising and prospering one to (ultimately) His son.

 

[Kaon]

Actually, it was you who said the argument was absurd.

I said that it was absurd of you to insinuate Jason hates God:

...

But, to say that he hates God, or is part of the lot that allegedly did is a bit absurd. At best, he is challenging the status quo of culture and religion through what seems like convictions of his spirit....

You actually thought I said something else, and exposed your own thinking:

That is the point. His whole argument is absurd.

I have never, nor would I, call him a God-hater. It is the logical outcome of HIS argument, but it is not what I claim at all.

______________________________________________________________________________

Riding in a boat with atheists does not make you and atheist. You are simply using the same vehicle.

As I said, you are using double speak to stay within the forum rules. I know what you are doing even if you want to play games.

 

[Not David]

The Word of God is the One we call Christ - or the Redeemer. The bible is a canon; I would hope no one only goes by the bible canon alone. The Most High God gave us the Comforter, and the New covenant was given by Him in Jeremiah as a promise to us so that we wouldn't have to ask our neighbors if they knew God. Your relationship with the Most High God should be just like your earthly father. Sure, you know things about him and what he expects on paper, but you don't need paper/canonical text to tell you who your father is. The Spirit of the Most High God instructs through any obstacle; a person on a deserted island can absolutely receive the Word of God if He pours His spirit on them.


Men telling men how to live spiritually is laughable; the Spirit of the Most High God does the work of feeding, raising and prospering one to (ultimately) His son.

I celebrate the birthday of my father, how much wouldn't I celebrate the birthday of my Savior.

 

[Kaon]

I celebrate the birthday of my father, how much wouldn't I celebrate the birthday of my Savior.

But were you told by the Most High God to celebrate your father's birthday, do you do it because you want to, and/or do you do it because everyone else before you did it?

Did you ever see a verse in the bible when the Disciples, Joseph, Mary, or anyone else celebrated the birthday of Christ?

Did the Most High God ever tell us to celebrate His birthday? Do you know why celebrating the birthday of Christ is futility? Because He is. He has existed since the foundation of everything, and will continue to forever. You, and I have a beginning and end, that's why the tradition of birthdays is important to men.

However, a noteworthy celebration would be to celebrate and honor the Day He laid down His Life for us - to make a way for our salvation.