Why I Think Christmas is Not Biblical (Please read OP before posting).

[Bible Highlighter]

Stop celebrating birthdays while you're at it.
And Easter.

I strive not to celebrate any holiday based now on Romans 12:2.

 

[Kerensa]

I strive not to celebrate any holiday based now on Romans 12:2.

I didn't know there were any holidays based on Romans 12:2.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I did no such thing. I simply used the same logic of your argument back at you.

Sorry. It was a hateful attack. You said I was in the same boat as atheists.... implying that I was an atheist by that statement when that is not true. Atheists attack Christmas because they hate anything to do with the mention of Christ. It is a false and hurtful accusation. I believe in Jesus as revealed in Scripture. I do not believe the version of Jesus as revealed by a secular holiday that I believe is tied to many pagan things that focuses on greed and materialism and also Santa.

Also, there are atheists who celebrate Christmas (obviously the Santa version of or just the gift giving) of the holiday. There are atheist Christmas carols. Psychics also love Christmas, too. The question is.... why?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I didn't know there were any holidays based on Romans 12:2.

The word "not" means that I don't celebrate them.
This is because Romans 12:2 says,

"Don't copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think. Then you will learn to know God's will for you, which is good and pleasing and perfect." (Romans 12:2) (NLT).

"And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God." (Romans 12:2) (KJV).

 

[Kaon]

Sorry. It was a hateful attack. You said I was in the same boat as atheists.... implying that I was an atheist by that statement when that is not true. Atheists attack Christmas because they hate anything to do with the mention of Christ. It is a false and hurtful accusation. I believe in Jesus as revealed in Scripture. I do not believe the version of Jesus as revealed by a secular holiday that I believe is tied to many pagan things that focuses on greed and materialism and also Santa.

Also, there are atheists who celebrate Christmas (obviously the Santa version of the holiday or just the gift giving) of the holiday. There are atheist Christmas carols. Psychics also love Christmas, too. The question is.... why?

Technically, he said "God-Haters."

I would imagine even a good mass of atheist are simply ambivalent to a god in general, in addition to denying a god exists.

 

[Kaon]

Stop celebrating birthdays while you're at it.
And Easter.

Lots of people do not celebrate their birthdays, and even simply go along with the idea because the people around them want a celebration. It is a tradition that is the choice of the man to follow.

Easter is not Passover. Rabbits do not lay eggs; it is a fertility celebration for spring. But, this thread isn't about Easter.

 

[Kerensa]

But, this thread isn't about Easter.

But it IS about legalistic and fanatical arguments as to why other Christians are "wrong" in celebrating the holidays that they do.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

But it IS about legalistic and fanatical arguments as to why other Christians are "wrong" in celebrating the holidays that they do.

And we are to just take your word for it?
Please provide Scripture and or prove that the pagan aspects of Christmas and the lying with Santa, and greed and materialism by being compelled into a gift exchange among family members simply translates to: A Christian simply being legalistic. Prove your case.

 

[Kerensa]

Maybe just have a careful look in the Bible yourself about what the scribes' and Pharisees' attitudes were towards Jesus and his works, and who and what he spared his own strongest condemnations for.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

James 1:27 says,
"Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world."

Is not Christmas a world recognized holiday with people of all faiths celebrate it?
How do you see the instruction of James, "keep...unspotted from the world" as an application for your life?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Maybe just have a careful look in the Bible yourself about what the scribes' and Pharisees' attitudes were towards Jesus and his works, and who and what he spared his own strongest condemnations for.

No. You have to show me specifically where you think the words, actions, or teachings of the scribes and pharisees relates to what I am doing. Please give me a verse or passage. Otherwise it is just a baseless accusation with no real substance in the actual Scriptures. I am familiar with what they taught. The Pharisees taught "Sonship Salvationism." They believed they were saved based on being sons (or children) of Abraham and they really did not keep God's laws.

 

[Kaon]

But it IS about legalistic and fanatical arguments as to why other Christians are "wrong" in celebrating the holidays that they do.

The "Legalism" dart has become a psychological euphemism for supporting disobedience. No one has ever shown where the Most High God Himself has ever told any of us to stop following His commandments. He expects us to know them, understand them and apply them; legalists blindly follow Law without understanding, and with a hope of attaining a reward for dedication.

There is nothing LEGALIST about a pagan holiday wrapped in warm para-Christian symbols to attract and deceive the masses. It is just a tradition of man.

What is interesting is that some Christians are quick to use the legalism trope while ignoring the Laws of the Most High God (despite the Most High God and the Word of God demanding perfection) - yet there is a church culture to attach to the things of pagan history that were NEVER spoken of, or commanded by the Most High God. No where in the canon, apocrypha or Gnostics is the birthday of Christ mentioned as a day, or a day to be observed. That is a tradition of Man that has hijacked the faith. No one is forcing you to stop celebrating Christmas; you are responsible for yourself.

 

[Kerensa]

Well, let's see. Among other things, they accused Jesus of associating with sinners (Mark 2:15, Luke 15:2 et al.), breaking the Sabbath through healing (Luke 13:14, John 5:16, John 9:16 et al.), casting out devils through Beelzebub (Matt. 12:24 et al.)... they tried every supposedly scriptural argument they could find to bring him down, all the while missing the whole point of who he was and what he was doing. You and Kaon are taking a rather similar attitude to Christmas and those who celebrate it. That's all I was saying.

 

[Kaon]

Well, let's see. Among other things, they accused Jesus of associating with sinners (

Because they were legalists. They blindly followed the Law without understanding how to apply it.

For example, to be a JUDGE, you need to have mercy, patience, and the rightrous power of God while honoring the power. The Pharisees tested Christ as legalists (prosecutors) because they didn't realize how to apply the Law. You need mercy, patience, AND righteousness. How can you stone someone for adultery when you have a mass of sins yourself? You cant, but people with Lab Coat/Authority syndrome would LET these hypocritical Pharisees send them to hell with their blindness. Nothing has changed today; the Most High God and the Word of God are still the same.

This is prophetic and ironic (the Pharisees and stoning example) considering they were ignorant of the application of the Law of justice, and therefore didn't recognize their Savior (first MERCY of the Salvation, then righteousness of Rule) was already in front of them executing justice correctly. They got mad at Him because He was right, but He wasn't the iron rod of justice they wanted. They didn't know who their Father was because The Most High God was not their Father.

 

[prodromos]

Sorry. It was a hateful attack.

Oh please. I bear no malice towards you whatsoever. Your false arguments are another matter.

You said I was in the same boat as atheists.... implying that I was an atheist by that statement when that is not true.

You said that because pagans celebrated something on December 25, because pagans use trees, because pagans etc. therefore Christmas is pagan. I do not believe you are an atheist, I am just applying the same argument as you have in order, hopefully, for you to recognise the fallacy of your argument.

Atheists attack Christmas because they hate anything to do with the mention of Christ. It is a false and hurtful accusation. I believe in Jesus as revealed in Scripture. I do not believe the version of Jesus as revealed by a secular holiday that I believe is tied to many pagan things that focuses on greed and materialism and also Santa.

None of those things has any place in the Eastern Orthodox celebration of Christouyenna (Christ birth) as we call it, or the formal name, "The Nativity of our Lord". We fast from meat and dairy during Advent, the 40 days leading up to the feast, in preparation for the joyful celebration of the first revelation of Emmanuel, God with us. Two weeks later we are celebrating Epiphany, Christ's baptism, when the Father's voice was heard and the Holy Spirit descended on Him in the form of a dove.

Also, there are atheists who celebrate Christmas (obviously the Santa version of or just the gift giving) of the holiday. There are atheist Christmas carols. Psychics also love Christmas, too. The question is.... why?

Satan attacks both directly and indirectly. If a direct attack is unsuccessful he will try to corrupt in subtle ways.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Well, let's see. Among other things, they accused Jesus of associating with sinners (Mark 2:15, Luke 15:2 et al.),

This does apply to anything that I said with Scripture.
There is a difference between being around sinners to evangelize them vs. hanging out with them when they do sinful things or when they partake in a pagan worldly holiday that promotes the lie of Santa (that includes sometimes parents lying to their children), black Friday fights that is a part of the so called gift giving (which is under compulsion amongst family members and not the poor) that promotes greed and materialism and puts people into debt. When Jesus was in a sinful environment, what did he do? He overturned the tables.

breaking the Sabbath through healing (Luke 13:14, John 5:16, John 9:16 et al.),

No. He did not break the Sabbath by healing. The Sabbath Law was never intended to preventing the OT saints from doing good. For Jesus said it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath. Jesus said he is Lord of the Sabbath. So the Pharisees did not correctly understand the Sabbath Law.

Anyways, how does this really apply to anything that I said?

casting out devils through Beelzebub (Matt. 12:24 et al.)...

Not sure what that has to do with anything that I said with Scripture. It is like you are throwing random verses at me and hoping for them to stick.

they tried every supposedly scriptural argument they could find to bring him down, all the while missing the whole point of who he was and what he was doing. You and Kaon are taking a rather similar attitude to Christmas and those who celebrate it. That's all I was saying.

Please prove to me using the verses that I proposed that they are not saying what I think they are saying.

Thank you;
And may God bless you.

 

[Not David]

The Church the Word of God established had no doors or walls, and no denominational doctrine. It was pure Word of God.

Jesus is the Word of God.

 

[Kaon]

Jesus is the Word of God.

Which is why His church had no doors or walls.

 

[Not David]

Which is why His church had no doors or walls.

No, but it's called the foundation and pillar of truth, and since the Church celebrated Christmas without a problem then not celebrating it is the minority and a man-made idea.

 

[Kaon]

No, but it's called the foundation and pillar of truth, and since the Church celebrated Christmas without a problem then not celebrating it is the minority and a man-made idea.

The Word of God Himself never told His followers to celebrate Christmas. Show me one place where the Word of God Himself ever said anything about celebrating His day of birth.

After you show me where the Word of God Himself said to celebrate His birthday, or even a mention of Him telling us when He was born, I will let you know why it doesn't matter if humans who call themselves Christians celebrate Christmas without a problem.