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Why I Think Christmas is Not Biblical (Please read OP before posting).

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Nor is my own birthday. So, what?

We are not talking about your birth day celebration. We are talking about how man thinks we need to celebrate the birth date of our Lord Jesus Christ in the way that he decides (When nothing is ever mentioned of it in Scripture). The problem is that people are adding to God's Word based in what they think Jesus should be about based upon the traditions of men. They say lets worship His birth on December 25th. But Jesus was actually born on Nisan 1 (the beginning of the Hebrew calendar year).


It doesn't matter what people do with that holiday. The point is what does the holiday itself teach? What are the fruits of that holiday every year?

Paul preached using a phrase from an Athenian altar. That does not mean Paul wanted Christians to worship using that religion. Christmas itself is a holiday that does not teach the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Others may do so, but the holiday itself does not do so. When I was a kid, I know of Jesus being born, Santa, Christmas tree, and receiving stuff. That was my idea of Christmas because that is all I knew the holiday to actually teach. The holiday itself did not teach anything more than that. I did not even learn that Jesus is God even. We would sing Christian songs around the Christmas tree. Have the name Jesus on our fireplace, but I was never told who Jesus was as a part of that holiday. Why? Because the holiday itself never taught such a thing.

Jason0047 said:
Tell me, does Christmas focus on a risen Lord or does it focus on His birth?
You said:
Both, actually. At least in my experience. Christ's birth is only meaningful in light of his atoning work as the Lamb of God.

Actually, knowing the true birth date of our Lord (Nisan 1) also points us back to his death of the same month, too. Check out this video here to learn why Jesus was born on Nisan 1:


Anyways, while I am happy that you had an experience that shows Christ's birth in relation to His atoning work as the Lamb of God, this is not what the holiday itself teaches. The message of the holiday itself and it's traditions does not teach this. So if you knew no other Christians and you did not investigate Christianity outside of Christmas, you would never truly know about a risen Lord. Therein is the problem with Christmas. That and it teaches Jesus is born on a day alongside other pagan gods and we can also receive gifts from a man named Santa, too. So when some kids grow up and they learn that Santa is not real, they can then naturally think Jesus is not real, either.


The difference is that Jesus is God and we are not. Jesus is worshiped and we are not worshiped. So when we change the birth date of our Lord to a date of other pagan gods are worshiped instead of on his true birth date, it is an attempt to say to people (who know to worship Him) that we should worship Jesus in a way that is not true or based upon man's traditions and saying we can worship Jesus alongside other pagan gods because He is no different.

I mean, where do you think Christmas comes from? Why do you think they call it Christmas? Christ-mass. It's the celebration of the mass of Christ. So unless you are Catholic, I do not see why you want to celebrate Christmas.

For you have to understand that Christmas itself does not teach what we need to do in regards to Jesus. Christmas teaches that we acknowledge Jesus was born but that we just give gifts to each other based upon greed and materialism (Which goes against the very teachings of Jesus Christ). The holiday itself teaches we are to have a pagan decorated tree (that men did worship wrongfully in the past) as a part of our recognizing Jesus. All these pagan elements are mixed in with a day we are supposed to recognize Jesus being born on a day of other pagan gods. Something is not right here.


Actually, God's Word tells us how we are to worship Him within His Word. Christmas teaches contrary to what His Word says.

1. Bible suggests Jesus is born Nisan 1, Christmas says Dec. 25th with pagan gods.
2. Bible says putting up trees and decorating them is a problem, Christmas says it is not a problem.
3. Bible says we are not to just give to loved ones alone but we are to give to the poor, and or lend without expecting anything in return, Christmas says to give and also expect to receive something. In fact, it teaches greed and materialism.

Anyways, I will have to address the rest of what you have written later. I gotta run.

May the Lord's love shine upon you, even if we may disagree strongly.
 
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Ken Rank

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I appreciate the tone of your post, even if I don't agree with it. I want to be clear, my family doesn't celebrate Christmas, at least at home. My mother in law asks us over for dinner that day and we go because I am not going to rob her of the joy of the day. Which, by the way, to her is simply her family all coming together.

Christmas is about Christ... even though I recognize that there are facets of the holiday that are pagan hangovers (wreaths, mistletoe, etc.). But the songs, the literature, the day itself, has been about Christ for a long time. And that is exactly why the day is attacked, renamed, and given new meaning by secularists who hate Christ. Schools calling it "Winter break" or cities calling it "Twinkle season" are taking Christ out of something, deliberately, because to them he is what the season is about EVEN IF he was really born during Sukkot or Pesach.

Christmas as a day is not in the bible, but mistakenly thinking Christ was born on December 25th is not a sin. In fact, Romans 14 kind of covers Christmas. You see, when Paul said, "One indeed judges a day above another day; and another one judges every day alike. Let each one be fully assured in his own mind" he wasn't talking about days like Passover, Atonement, Tabernacles, etc. because those days were not optional to him, they were appointments with God. He was talking about additional days, additional feasts and fasts that if you wanted to set the day aside, go ahead.... just don't force it on others. If somebody believes Yeshua was born in December, again, they are wrong... but to them they are still honoring God and them doing so is between them and God, not you and them and God, respectfully.

Lastly, your #2 is just wrong, sorry. It is anachronistic at best. The Christmas tree, the cutting of a pine down, bringing it in and decorating it is early Germanic at best, but the best argument out there is it starting with Luther. In Jeremiah's day (he died over 2600 years ago) the cutting down of a tree and adorning it with gold and silver was not done in round balls.... it was done by pouring melted gold and silver over the wood AFTER it had been carved into an idol.... they were totem polls not Christmas trees. Also, the Hebrew word for tree there (and everywhere) is etz, which can mean tree but also branch, stick.... the two sticks in Ezekiel 37 held in Ezekiel's hand, for example... is also etz. So to take the English "tree" and and tie what happened in THAT time period and THAT geographical location and make it a Christmas tree is simply not possible. Well, it can be in our minds, but no historian would ever make such a leap... even one wanting to destroy out faith.
 
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Ken Rank

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Actually, knowing the true birth date of our Lord (Nisan 1) also points us back to his death, too. Check out this video here to learn why Jesus was born on Nisan 1:

Not that it matters, but just as compelling a case or even better is that he was born on the first day of Sukkot and circumcised on the last Great (and 8th) day. But it is one or the other, Passover or Tabernacles and not December. But so what? If somebody wants to honor God on that day or ANY other.... isn't it their business? Isn't it between them and God? I know people who fast on their baptism day... are they in error or are they simply setting a day aside for God?
 
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S.O.J.I.A.

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I think the OP used a wrong title.

The Xmas or Christmas (as Christians call it) is indeed biblical (things that belong to the world / as traditions of men) but the Bible speaks against it.

Cable TV is also found in the Bible in the Book of Psalms!

but not really..
 
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Kerensa

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I think all Christians should not celebrate it for biblical reasons.

This is exactly what I was talking about in another recent thread. It's one thing to say "I choose not to celebrate Christmas, and here's why, but I understand why most other Christians do and I respect everyone's right to make their own choice in these matters." It's another thing to repeatedly present a whole string of arguments (all of them highly questionable, as others here have shown again and again) about why "all Christians SHOULD NOT celebrate Christmas". That's reducing Christianity to sheer legalism while blatantly setting oneself up as superior to all these misguided and deluded souls who believe Christmas is something good and praiseworthy. It's not likely to change anyone's mind and it's certainly not likely to persuade non-believers that Christianity is worth looking into — more like the opposite.

Just speaking for myself, when I was a child I absolutely loved Christmas — yes, for all the excitement and the presents and all that, but even though my family were (and are) totally non-religious, I always somehow felt most drawn to the Nativity scene and the story of this very special baby. As a teenager I lost the very simple faith I once had and became an agnostic and was really quite cynical about Christmas, which did then feel like an empty, meaningless, purely materialistic drag. At the age of 20 I became a Christian and every Christmas since then has been alive with meaning like never before. Do you really think I, or the couple of billion other Christians to whom it means so much, will ever be persuaded that this special time is ungodly and unbiblical and pagan and satanic and "real" Christians should condemn it instead of celebrating it? I don't think so.
 
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Ken Rank

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That's reducing Christianity to sheer legalism while blatantly setting oneself up as superior to all these misguided and deluded souls who believe Christmas is something good and praiseworthy.

That is exactly correct. This is for @Jason0047 as well.

Heresy TODAY is defined as not agreeing with the Orthodoxy or Mainstream view. But if you look up the Greek word we get heresy from, and in a Thayer or Liddel Scott lexicon, you'll find it means, "to storm a city, to take by force." The idea of force is behind the word and even though we don't storm a city, we can try to force others to believe as we do. And, even if we are correct, if you are trying to force or manipulate others to accept our view.... we are heretics. We have to watch out for that! Legalism and heresy... they both come out of trying to get others to accept our views.
 
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Danthemailman

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I hear you about reducing Christianity to sheer legalism while blatantly setting oneself up as superior to all these misguided and deluded souls who believe Christmas is something good and praiseworthy. If one is fully convinced that they cannot, in good conscience, observe Christmas because they believe it's too steeped in pagan traditions in order for them to honor God, then don't celebrate it.

At the same time, if one is fully convinced that you can honor and worship God during Christmas, then honor and worship God. For Christians, Christmas can be an important part of the celebration of the birth of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. There is also a tremendous opportunity for thousands of people who wouldn’t go to church any other time of the year to go on Christmas day and hear the Gospel.
 
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Kerensa

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Yes, exactly.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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I think you missed the point of the post which was discussing the pagan origin of Sun worship and Sunday which was in discussion with the op. Yes Christians were worshipping God on everyday of the week. That was not the point of the post however.
 
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prodromos

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I think you missed the point of the post which was discussing the pagan origin of Sun worship and Sunday which was in discussion with the op. Yes Christians were worshipping God on everyday of the week. That was not the point of the post however.
You missed the point of my post which was to correct your false claim about Constantine.
 
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Ken Rank

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You missed the point of my post which was to correct your false claim about Constantine.
It amazes me... some of the things attributed to Constantine that are simply false, made up and then repeated. Not that he isn't without fault, he certainly was... but my gosh has he become a whipping boy and 80% of what is claimed of him isn't even true!
 
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All Christians should not murder. Is that legalism, too?
 
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Even a Catholic encyclopedia says the same things about him. So no. You are simply buying a cover story that sounds better to you.
 
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Jesus said if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15).

Jesus said if you will enter into life, keep the commandments (Matthew 19:17).

How do not see that as legalism or in the importance of how we must keep God’s commands as a part of having life or in loving Jesus?

You also falsely assume that God is okay with people participating in a day that focuses on greed and materialism in the name of Christ and Santa Clause. What are the major fruits of Christmas and do they line up with Scripture? Paul says if anyone preaches another Jesus in who have not preached, bear with them. It doesn’t say accept them. Paul never preached the Christmas version of Jesus.
 
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FenderTL5

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quoting, because it's worth repeating.
 
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Kaon

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I don't know ... God did some pretty boss celebrating concerning His gift .... special star, angelic chorus, shepherd's reception, wise men with gifts, etc.

None of those were based on fall/winter pagan holy days, and ultimately the Day of the Invictus Sun for the Christian.

The Most High God gave us 7 Holy Days to celebrate, plus a Sabbath. None of them include a day about the birth of Christ, or a call to remember and reenact His nativity.

Did Christ - out of all of the life saving messages He gave - ever say to celebrate His birthday? No; men did.
 
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Monk Brendan

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I will comment only on your first objection.

Revivals, altar calls, and invitation hymns are nowhere in the Bible, either.

You might want to read the book THE APOSTASY THAT WASN'T.
 
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Kaon

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Stay strong in your beliefs; your Father is convicting you. Trust Him only, not even yourself and certainly not us.
 
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Ken Rank

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Even a Catholic encyclopedia says the same things about him. So no. You are simply buying a cover story that sounds better to you.
Jason... instead of taking a high school like shot at me, why not ask me what I mean, allow me to clarify. I will give you one example... OK?

Ever heard of the Constantine Creed? It starts like this (this is about 1/3rd of it)

“I renounce all customs, rites, legalisms, unleavened breads and sacrifices of lambs of the Hebrews, and all the other feasts of the Hebrews, sacrifices, prayers, aspirations, purifications, sanctifications, and propitiations, and fasts and new moons, and Sabbaths, and superstitions, and hymns and chants, and observances and synagogues. absolutely everything Jewish, every Law, rite and custom and if afterwards I shall wish to deny and return to Jewish superstition, or shall be found eating with Jews, or feasting with them, or secretly conversing and condemning the Christian religion instead of openly confuting them and condemning their vain faith, then let the trembling of Cain and the leprosy of Gehazi cleave to me, as well as the legal punishments to which I acknowledge myself liable."

This gem went around the internet a couple of years ago and is, well, crap! How do I know? Well... for starters.... how could Constantine renounce all sacrifices of lambs done by Hebrews when the Temple was destroyed (ending the sacrifices) about 230 YEARS before Constantine was even in power? He also states in this "creed" that he would like to deny RETURNING TO Jewish things. Interesting that a guy who was raised a Mithras worshiper and who had NOTHING to do with ANYTHING Jewish, would not want to return to Jewish things?????

So where does this "creed" come from? In 1748, a monk name Stephano Assemeni found this document and it was, he said, written in Syriac (HALT..... Syriac is ancient Aramaic, Constantine would have written in Latin or Greek and NO WAY in ancient Aramaic). Stephano then translated it into Latin and then 2 years later the "original" was lost in a fire... how convenient. So we have one copy in all of history, and that the Latin rendering by Assemani. We must have more than one witness for ANY truth to be established anyway.

That is one example.... would you like to find out how Constantine only made legal (Sunday observance) what had already been the practice among Christians since about 150AD, right after the Bar Kokhba Revolt?

Much is attributed to him that simply isn't true. Yes I question his conversion! Yes if he really forced baptized his army he is a heretic (according to the original definition of the word). But much of what is laid at his feet is simply crap. Sorry... no better word fits some of the dung being slung around!
 
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