Why I refuse to vote for BHO

[TheOtherHockeyMom]

I feel that way, and may well vote for Jill Stein if she makes it on the ballot where I live.

 

[Illuminaughty]

It's time to give Jill Stein the chance run things and forget about the neocon Romney and the crypto-neocon Obama.

 

[Paradoxum]

Why I Refuse to Vote for Barack Obama - Conor Friedersdorf - The Atlantic

This article goes on to endorse Gary Johnson. I won't be voting for GJ, because of him being more a libertarian. I think I might vote in James K. Polk, zombie president. Invading Mexico and threatening to invade and annex Canada up to Alaska just speaks to my demographic. ;-)

But seriously, any other liberals feel that way? You know you don't like Romney, and you like Obama personally, but you just can't stomach up the vote for him....

I totally get those points, but if I were American I likely still vote for Obama reluctantly. It would be more of a vote against Romney and the religious right though. It is bad that Obama is killing people like that, but I was and am in favour of the Libyan war, and Romney might start a war in the middle east. If that happened that would be much worse than what Obama has done. Plus Obama does support some moderate-progressive things like same-sex marriage, better healthcare, is centrist to centre-left economically, etc.

I guess it just depends how important you consider the current election and how willing you are to sacrifice it for some possible change in the future.

But yeah, things like this are much more damning to Obama than calling him a socialist.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

If Barack Obama had an R next to his name, all "Progressives" would hate him and all "conservatives" would love him.

I didn't vote for Bush when he had an "R" next to his name. Mainly because republicans aren't conservatives. I view conservative as a value meaning sticking to the constitution and not changing the original policies this country was founded upon.

Neither major party suits my liking in terms of my values. I almost always vote for one of the "lesser known" people who share my value of small government.

 

[Metal Minister]

I didn't vote for Bush when he had an "R" next to his name. Mainly because republicans aren't conservatives. I view conservative as a value meaning sticking to the constitution and not changing the original policies this country was founded upon.

Neither major party suits my liking in terms of my values. I almost always vote for one of the "lesser known" people who share my value of small government.

I've never voted republican and I'm not going to this time around either, but Obama is definitely not getting my vote either...is Wayne Allen Root running again this year? Lol

 

[abdAlSalam]

I didn't vote for Bush when he had an "R" next to his name. Mainly because republicans aren't conservatives. I view conservative as a value meaning sticking to the constitution and not changing the original policies this country was founded upon.

Neither major party suits my liking in terms of my values. I almost always vote for one of the "lesser known" people who share my value of small government.

I put progressive and conservative in scare quotes for a reason. Pretty sure you are one of those that see the reason for scare quotes.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

What I know is that Romney would be much more damaging to the country than Obama.

My question to you would be, how do you know that?

Can you see into the future?

I can see where it would damage your vision of perfect wealth distribution, but in terms of economy, the only way Romney would be worse is if he took $1.4 trillion and invested it in a pyramid scheme.

 

[Metal Minister]

I think its funny that everyone's afraid Romney will start a war in the middle east...what do they think we've been dealing with up till now?

 

[Illuminaughty]

I can understanding voting for the lesser of two evils in certain rare circumstances. When you get stuck doing it every election it just isn't going to turn out too well for the country. People really need to take the plunge and vote for some candidates outside the two corporate owned parties. You can't get by indefinitely on "lesser of two evils".

 

[Illuminaughty]

I think its funny that everyone's afraid Romney will start a war in the middle east...

He has said some things that really make me think he would bomb Iran. He said military action against Iran wouldn't just be an "option" under him.

 

[Metal Minister]

He has said some things that really make me think he would bomb Iran. He said military action against Iran wouldn't just be an "option" under him.

Eh, every republican candidate said that save for Ron Paul...they're just blowing smoke to get the base to come out for them...anything to separate themselves from BO...

Edit* there's a reason I call him Milk-toast Mitt...

 

[Illuminaughty]

Your right it could just be empty rhetoric but I think people who use rhetoric like that are dangerous even if they don't carry through.

 

[stamperben]

My question to you would be, how do you know that?

Can you see into the future?

I can see where it would damage your vision of perfect wealth distribution, but in terms of economy, the only way Romney would be worse is if he took $1.4 trillion and invested it in a pyramid scheme.

Do you think banks are in trouble now? Mitt doesnt. I can look into the future and see regulations drop like flies if he's elected. It'd be bad for everyone but him and his ilk.

Be real dude. Wealth distribution isn't gonna happen as I'd like it to under the system we live under. Obama isn't the socialist you portend he is. He is nothing but a crony of the capitalist system. He's just the lessor of the two evils.

 

[Jeffwhosoever]

Do you think banks are in trouble now? Mitt doesnt. I can look into the future and see regulations drop like flies if he's elected. It'd be bad for everyone but him and his ilk.

Be real dude. Wealth distribution isn't gonna happen as I'd like it to under the system we live under. Obama isn't the socialist you portend he is. He is nothing but a crony of the capitalist system. He's just the lessor of the two evils.

I'll take Romney over Obama any day of the week and twice on Sunday. We'll be in instant recession if Obama wins.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

The continuation of American militraism is one of the most dissappointing things for me about the Obama presidency. On one hand there are practical considerabtion and a great deal of inertia to resist but I do feel he could have done more.

I think the action in Libya was the right thing to do though the political outcomes are uncertain. In respect to a military action it went as perfectly as could be expected.

I think Romney would be significantly worse as a president for this sort of action. From a CEO focus, war can be very good for business.

It's important that people bring up these issues for discussion but as for how they actually cast their vote, I keep coming back to the Chris Rock quote:
If you vote against Obama because he can't get stuff done, it's like saying, "this guy can't cure cancer. I'm gonna vote for cancer."

Love the quote by Christ Rock as it concerns the way many don't think with their options when they get frustrated for one not solving a problem and then vote for another who'll either continue the problem, increase it or show that they're an even WORSE problem than what was originally trying to be fixed. For many voting against President Obama (and with many valid reasons), what often seems to be the case is that the option (Romney) is glorified without warrant even when he either advocates the same or is known to be worse on other things because people so desperately want to find a "cure" that they choose not to discern where a disease will continue with the options they look to.


That said, there are a lot of things the article noted that are indeed excellent points on why others are cautious of the president..especially when it seems that more of the same things that were done under previous presidents/claimed by the President to not be supported in his term have been continued in differing ways...but in many ways, being no different in policy than many other presidents throughout history. For other good reviews on the issue:

Chomsky: Obama's Imperialist Policies
Noam Chomsky: US Terrorism
Noam Chomsky - History of US Rule in Latin America
Obama, the Middle East, and the Prospects for Peace
Noam Chomsky to RT: Bush torturer, Obama just kills
Noam Chomsky: Obama recycles George W. Bushs plans
Chomsky on Afghanistan, Climate and Obama's "Change"
Noam Chomsky: Obama Administration and US Foreign Policy
Noam Chomsky Lectures on Modern-Day American Imperialism: Middle East and Beyond​

I agree with other scholars/thinkers who've long noted that in many ways President Obama is essentially the President of the Bankers/Big Buisness....and one who is the face of Wall Street even as he says he's for the people. In many ways, it could be said that perhaps he feels that by helping Big Buisness/bankers he thinks (or has been told) it'd help the impoverished/lower classes....but there's no question as to who he supports. Cornel West has been one of the most adamant critics of the President..one who supported the man initially but now questions his commitment to the poor. He points out often that the improved economy the President touts still has an un-employment rate of 10% and that 10% is made up of real people who are in dire straits. West also noted that President Obama brought many people into the fold during his campaign, but now seems to have abandoned them to become a technocratic deal cutter.


And as another noted best:

He did 65 campaign events for President Obama, believed in the potential for change and was encouraged by the populist rhetoric of the Obama campaign. He now, like many others who placed their faith in Obama, the anguish of the deceived, manipulated and betrayed. He bitterly describes Obama as “a black mascot of Wall Street oligarchs and a black puppet of corporate plutocrats. And now he has become head of the American killing machine and is proud of it.”


“When you look at a society you look at it through the lens of the least of these, the weak and the vulnerable; you are committed to loving them first, not exclusively, but first, and therefore giving them priority,” says West, the Class of 1943 University Professor of African American Studies and Religion at Princeton University.

“And even at this moment, when the empire is in deep decline, the culture is in deep decay, the political system is broken, where nearly everyone is up for sale, you say all I have is the subversive memory of those who came before, personal integrity, trying to live a decent life, and a willingness to live and die for the love of folk who are catching hell. This means civil disobedience, going to jail, supporting progressive forums of social unrest if they in fact awaken the conscience, whatever conscience is left, of the nation. And that’s where I find myself now.”“I have to take some responsibility,” he admits of his support for Obama as we sit in his book-lined office. “I could have been reading into it more than was there.”

“I was thinking maybe he has at least some progressive populist instincts that could become more manifest after the cautious policies of being a senator and working with Lieberman as his mentor,” he says. “But it became very clear when I looked at the neoliberal economic team. The first announcement of Summers and Geithner I went ballistic. I said, ‘Oh, my God, I have really been misled at a very deep level.’ And the same is true for Dennis Ross and the other neo-imperial elites. I said, ‘I have been thoroughly misled, all this populist language is just a facade. I was under the impression that he might bring in the voices of brother Joseph Stiglitz and brother Paul Krugman. I figured, OK, given the structure of constraints of the capitalist democratic procedure that’s probably the best he could do. But at least he would have some voices concerned about working people, dealing with issues of jobs and downsizing and banks, some semblance of democratic accountability for Wall Street oligarchs and corporate plutocrats who are just running amuck. I was completely wrong.”


​

Cornel West Uncovers Obama's Brain Fetish
Cornel West discusses President Obama's administration on Real Time With Bill Maher​

And I'm glad others like COrnel West have called out the President on multiple issues. When asked to critique Obama's first term in office, West said Obama is "much much better than Mitt Romney" but he remained critical of Obama. "Mitt Romney is a catastrophic response to a catastrophe, whereas Obama is a disastrous response to a catastrophe,” West said. “Is disaster better than catastrophe? Yes it is. I wish we had a third candidate who could actually do something, but we don't at the moment." :

As U.S. Inequality Widens, Cornel West and Tavis Smiley Launch Poverty Tour 2.0
Cornel West
Cornel West on Obama's Presidency 9/27/11
Cornel West: Obama is for big business not the jobless
Dr. Cornel West:"Obama becoming puppet of Wall St Oligarchs" ​

 

[SolomonVII]

Th.....
I think the action in Libya was the right thing to do though the political outcomes are uncertain. In respect to a military action it went as perfectly as could be expected.

Obama set a precedent for other presidents by not getting congressional approval for military actions.
All presidents since Ford or so when Congress passed that law reserved the right to send troops into active wars without Congressional approval, but until Obama there was no president that did not go to Congress for approval.

The precedent has been confirmed now, so as far as militarism goes, Americans can expect more of that in the future.

 

[SolomonVII]

If Barack Obama had an R next to his name, all "Progressives" would hate him and all "conservatives" would love him.

It would be very difficult for a pro-abortion candidate to win the Republican nomination for the presidency.

 

[SolomonVII]

You mean the war that was so bad Obama promised to end it the moment he became president?

Who not only didn't end the war but chose to go by Bush withdrawl plan after the Iraq government refused to allow him to leave 10k soldiers in the country.

Murdering Pakistanis, murdering Americans, ignoring the war powers act, (which atleast bush had a vote on the iraq war, Obama acted as a dictator and did what he wanted to do) the horrible NDAA which would have seen american citizens being detains without due process... all that's TOTALLY OK.... but Darn that Bush!

As for murdering pakistanis.. here's the face of Obama's drone policy in Pakistan.

She's in houston currently getting care, I'm sure if you call you could tell her how a undeclared war against her people isn't nearly as bad as the Iraq war.

At what point are people going to realize that a vote for Obama is a vote for Bush's policies?

Not that the media will ever raise the issue for Obama, but I believe that the civilian casualty rate for these drone attacks is 16% or so.
It is no small number for sure, though when it is a Democratic president ordering the killings, liberals are indifferent for the most part. I haven't heard the same protests groups that were heard throughout the Bush presidency complaining too much.

The exact percentage may be wrong, but it is in the Milt Rosenberg WGN audio archives where the information comes from.

 

[SolomonVII]

Your right it could just be empty rhetoric but I think people who use rhetoric like that are dangerous even if they don't carry through.

Ahmadinejad comes to mind.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Do you think banks are in trouble now? Mitt doesnt. I can look into the future and see regulations drop like flies if he's elected. It'd be bad for everyone but him and his ilk.

Be real dude. Wealth distribution isn't gonna happen as I'd like it to under the system we live under. Obama isn't the socialist you portend he is. He is nothing but a crony of the capitalist system. He's just the lessor of the two evils.

Deregulation is a good thing. It gives businesses more choices...it doesn't become a bad thing until the government start trying to help (bailout) the businesses that make bad choices.