Why I don't do Christmas

[Rdr Iakovos]

A tradition with no foundation in Scripture.

It is so because you say it is so- fallacious reasoning there.

Foundation: The basis upon which something is grounded

In point of fact, the celebration of the Advent and Nativity of Jesus the Christ has very firm foundations in scripture, most notably in the Lukan Gospel. The events as recorded there make it clear that His birth was anticipated and celebrated.
Luke 1:42
Luke 2:11-12
Luke 2:13-14
Luke 2:20
Luke 2:29-33

Such are the foundation of our celebration, awe and wonder. Dragging santa, gifts, trees and yule logs- regional customs- is a MASSIVE Strawman.

It is only when you say "Christ Mass is not commanded in scripture" that we can find common accord. It's true- it is not commanded in scripture. Elsewise, you are making false and unsubstantiated claims. Particularly when you attempt to connect the prohibitions against idolatry, as if they are a priori proved. They are not. You therefore you commit a fallacy of affirming the consequent.
Affirming the consequent - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Logical fallacy

This says nothing of the genetic fallacy that your entire argument here hinges on.

Careful when you start throwing about debate terms- you might have such a measure applied to your own (ahem) logic.
Now that's QED

I first heard your glib answer when I was eight years old attending a Catholic Catechism Class. I remember asking myself, 'If it is baby Jesus' birthday, why do I get to party (celebrate) at Christmas?' That didn't make sense at eight, but I went along with it because who doesn't like toys, big dinners, and cake for dessert? As an adult, what does make sense to me is what the Bible says about bringing honor to God and what our gifts are.

Strawman. Christmas is not Jesus' birthday. It is a celebration of His Advent

John 12:26 "If anyone serves Me, he must follow Me; and where I am, there My servant will be also; if anyone serves Me, the Father will honor him.

Which is why those offering food to the hungry on this Christmas, or any other day, will be near to God. Likewise, wherever they are, if they do what they do unto God, then they are His servants and He is near. All things permissible, not all profitable. I assume that every other member of this royal priesthood can find for themselves without your help or berating what is profitable for them?
Alrighty then.

Eph. 2:8 - For By grace you have been saved through faith; and not of yourselves, it the gift of God.

Phil 1:29 - For to you it has been granted for Christ's sake, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake,

granted -charizomai -(khra-id'-zom-ahee) - to give graciously, to bestow, a gift.

The gift of 'suffer for His sake' is a daily cross (Luke 9:23). How does one suffer for His sake? Ask hard questions about your families traditions. When you do that, they will want to separate from you (Luke 6:22) for calling out their traditions. When you have the strength do that, then you are honoring God.

Another logical fallacy. It is only necessary and Godly to reject the traditions of your family if such are in fact unGodly. You assume a priori once again.

Frankly, your appeal also has potential cult written all over it. Jesus' admonition for us to chose Him over families, etc, must be carefully considered. Elsewise, fallacy of hasty generalization.
Here, study these:
Fallacies
Logical Fallacies

Your arguments need help.

 

[Kristos]

Death to the World!

What?....

Come and see: Orthodoxy in America - Home

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Death to the World!

What?....

Come and see: Orthodoxy in America - Home

Or rather death to those who are "ruining" it

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G1311&t=KJV

Reve 11:18 and the nations are angered and came the wrath of Thee, and the time/season of the dead ones to be judged, and to give the wages to Thy slaves/bondservants, the prophets and to the saints and to the ones fearing the name of you, the small ones and the great ones,
and to blight/thru corrupt/dia-fqeirai <1311> (5658) the ones blighting/thru-corrupting/dia-fqeirontaV <1311> (5723) the Land.
[Genesis 6:13/Matt 24:38/Luke 17:27/1 Peter 3:20/2 Peter 2:5/Hebrew 11:7 "Days of Noah"]

 

[Eph4:26]

In point of fact, the celebration of the Advent and Nativity of Jesus the Christ has very firm foundations in scripture, most notably in the Lukan Gospel. The events as recorded there make it clear that His birth was anticipated and celebrated.
Luke 1:42
Luke 2:11-12
Luke 2:13-14
Luke 2:20
Luke 2:29-33.

Rdr Iakovos ... Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I'll post a full reply in segments.

The fact that Jesus wasn't even born on December 25 notwithstanding, I want to start by offering a concession. Here is where I've changed -- just a little bit -- about Christmas over the past two years. In the spirit of 1 Cor. 3:2, if a Believer can only handle the milk of 'Jesus was born in a manger' message, that's ok. What I'm doing, in part, with this thread is to encourage those baby believers to grow in their faith and desire strong meat to nourish themselves. Does that make sense to you?

 

[Rdr Iakovos]

Rdr Iakovos ... Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I'll post a full reply in segments.

The fact that Jesus wasn't even born on December 25 notwithstanding, I want to start by offering a concession. Here is where I've changed -- just a little bit -- about Christmas over the past two years. In the spirit of 1 Cor. 3:2, if a Believer can only handle the milk of 'Jesus was born in a manger' message, that's ok. What I'm doing, in part, with this thread is to encourage those baby believers to grow in their faith and desire strong meat to nourish themselves. Does that make sense to you?

Of course, absolutely. In fact, I believe that the Eastern Orthodox understanding of Advent and Nativity according to the Flesh- as opposed to the secularized, mytholized Christmas- is indeed strong meat.

Here's how:
The emphasis is not on a day, per se, or presents, or Santa, or any of that other innocuous fluff. The emphasis is on remembering and contemplating, as well as being challenged by, the Incarnation of the Incarnate Word. Yes, this should be an everyday thing, but the keeping of a period of fasting followed by a feast is designed to instruct the faithful to worship the Son of God- not as a baby in a manger, but as fully God, fully Man.

I realize that the seasons and lectionary and all that isn't for everybody. But its intent and aim is rigorous, orthodox, and pietistic.

To each their own. I like the whole package.

 

[Eph4:26]

see -- I can be agreeable.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Or rather death to those who are "ruining" it

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G1311&t=KJV

Reve 11:18 and the nations are angered and came the wrath of Thee, and the time/season of the dead ones to be judged, and to give the wages to Thy slaves/bondservants, the prophets and to the saints and to the ones fearing the name of you, the small ones and the great ones,
and to blight/thru corrupt/dia-fqeirai <1311> (5658) the ones blighting/thru-corrupting/dia-fqeirontaV <1311> (5723) the Land.
[Genesis 6:13/Matt 24:38/Luke 17:27/1 Peter 3:20/2 Peter 2:5/Hebrew 11:7 "Days of Noah"]

Hey isnt "blight" equal to "blasted" in the OT? Not sure, it first appears in relation to crops however "people" seem to be shown as the same in relation to the same in 2Kings 19:26

 

[Eph4:26]

Rdr Iakovos . . .

If you would be so kind as to express in Algeria terms:

1. If P, then Q.
2. Q.
3. Therefore, P.

how idolatry is committing a logical fallacy, I would like to comment further.

 

[asaracini]

Still waiting for someone to show me Christmas in the Bible.

This stuff isn't new. Read Jer. 10

 

[Rdr Iakovos]

Still waiting for someone to show me Christmas in the Bible.

This stuff isn't new. Read Jer. 10

There's one in every crowd.

Usually they have a pitchfork or a torch.

 

[Rdr Iakovos]

Rdr Iakovos . . .

If you would be so kind as to express in Algeria terms:

1. If P, then Q.
2. Q.
3. Therefore, P.

how idolatry is committing a logical fallacy, I would like to comment further.

LOL @ Algeria terms. I don't speak the language.
Algebraic?

It is the inference of idolatry in Christmas worship that is a logical fallacy.
Christmas has attached Pagan practices
Pagans are idolaters
Therefore, Christmas is idolatry.

It's a non sequitur.

Perhaps you feel I have misrepresented your logical chain.
Idols are made of decorated wood
Christmas trees are made of decorated wood
Therefore, Christmas trees are idols

and so on.

Religion and religiosity, including which celebrations one does not keep, or does, such as the Jewish Feasts, can be every bit as idolatrous as a statue of Dagon. Idols occur in the heart, so nothing is automatically idolatrous nor excluded from being a possible idol.

Let's wrap our heads around what really matters.

 

[Eph4:26]

Rdr Iakovos . . .OK-- I now see where the misunderstanding is. I'll explain in greater detail -- soon

 

[Rdr Iakovos]

Rdr Iakovos . . .OK-- I now see where the misunderstanding is. I'll explain in greater detail -- soon

K

 

[Eph4:26]

Perhaps you feel I have misrepresented your logical chain.
Idols are made of decorated wood
Christmas trees are made of decorated wood
Therefore, Christmas trees are idols

I do not use the word idols in the conventional sense -- something made of decorative wood (physical).

When I use the English word idolatry, I'm using it in the Biblical sense (metaphorical).

Paul said that covetousness (wanting more for self) is idolatry (Eph. 5:5; Col. 3:5).

Rev. 17:5 -- And upon her forehead a name written, Mystery, Babylon the Great, The Mother of harlots and abominations of the earth.

* harlot - Greek : porne-an idolator; prostitute; " to sell"
* abomination - Greek : bdelgma- detestable; to stink

The Harlot of Babylon, the false world religion has corrupted man throughout history with idolatrous worship.

Gen. 11:4 -- "They said, Let us make us a name"

* name - Hebrew: Shem- honour; authority conspicuous position

In Gen. 11:4 Babylon rebelled against God; mothering all idol worship, founding their idolatrous system, when they said, "Let us make us a name." (honor self).

Pride is the foundation of all idolatry. A man is an idol worshippers (of self), when he says, "I will make a name for myself. I am known as an authority (name) by my idols (cars, houses, lands, things.) My position in the community will cause men to look up to me". This is an abomination. Pride is a stinking smell to God. Christians are to be living, acceptable, (pleasing) sacrifices. (Rom 12:1). That is done with death to self.

 

[Thekla]

An interjection:

There have been additions to and distortions of the Christian commemoration of the nativity of Christ (ie the Incarnation), but this does not mean that the commemoration is inherently pagan, nor idolatrous.

The Christmas tree is a western European tradition, which per many descriptions was utilized as a Christian teaching or conversion tool:
Legends of the First Christmas Trees

As for the EO, the act of gift giving is commonly associated with the Feast of St. Basil (who was known not only for his intrepid stance against heresy, but for defense of the poor, almsgiving, the foundation of free orphanages, hospitals, etc.).

To commemorate what is of Christ, what is Christ-like, our joy of His coming to walk among us as an historical fact, even if this includes stringing lights on ships, on trees - a celebration of the True Light and glory, of Jesus Christ.

Here is the text of a Nativity hymn (Royal Hours):

What shall we offer Thee, O Christ,
Who for our sakes hast appeared on the earth as a man?
Every creature which Thou hast made offers Thee thanks.
The angels offer Thee a song;
The heavens, their star;
The wise men, their gifts;
The shepherds, their wonder;
The earth, its cave;
The wilderness; the manger;
And we offer Thee a virgin mother.
O Pre-eternal God, have mercy on us!

Here is another, chanted:

YouTube - An Arabic Christmas Carol (Byzantine Hymn of the Nativity)

The tree does not refer to itself; the manger which held Christ was of wood.

 

[Thekla]

"Thy nativity, O Christ our God,
has shown to the world the light of wisdom;
for by it, those who worshipped the stars
were taught by a star to adore Thee
the Sun of Righteousness,
and to know Thee, the Orient from on high.
O Lord, glory to Thee."



Christ is born, glorify him.
Christ is from heaven, go to meet him.
Christ is on earth, be ye lifted up.
Sing to the Lord, all the earth.
Sing out with gladness, all ye people.
For he is glorified.

 

[Rdr Iakovos]

"Thy nativity, O Christ our God,
has shown to the world the light of wisdom;
for by it, those who worshipped the stars
were taught by a star to adore Thee
the Sun of Righteousness,
and to know Thee, the Orient from on high.
O Lord, glory to Thee."



Christ is born, glorify him.
Christ is from heaven, go to meet him.
Christ is on earth, be ye lifted up.
Sing to the Lord, all the earth.
Sing out with gladness, all ye people.
For he is glorified.

That's how we roll.

Note well there is only worship of the Incarnate Logos, no idols.

 

[Thekla]

YouTube - Η Παρθένος σήμερον - The Virgin today

 

[katherine2001]

Here are some more of the Orthodox Nativity Hymns (in English and Slavonic):

YouTube - Orthodox Christmas Carols

Here is another one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5o8j_idDuM&feature=related


In the Orthodox Church, Christmas is called the Feast of the Nativity. It is all about Christ's birth, and emphasis is put on prayer, repentance, alms giving, and spiritual reading before hand.

 

[Eph4:26]

It is all about Christ's birth

PERIOD

I've conceded this point. One more time, katherine2001 you should do Christmas.

The fact that Jesus wasn't even born on December 25 notwithstanding, In the spirit of 1 Cor. 3:2, if a Believer can only handle the milk of 'Jesus was born in a manger' message, that's ok. What I'm doing, in part, with this thread is to encourage those baby believers to grow in their faith and desire strong meat to nourish themselves. Does that make sense to you?

Here is some more, strong meat:

God hates that is highly esteemed by men (Luke 16:15).
Don't do what everyone else is doing (Ex 26:2)

Is the 'Holiday Season' highly esteemed by all and celebrated around the world in some fashion?