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Look at the oldest example with Eve. God knew she would disobey him yet still set that stipulation.
Useful? That isn't merit, not goodness deserving of salvation.This implies that God chose Peter correctly because Peter actually did good for God's kingdom and he was not utterly useless (producing no fruit whatsoever).
God's foreknowledge. Yes. However, you are still presuming that he sees merit in the person and elects accordingly. That is not what the verses say.According to Calvinism, God elects based on no conditions whatsoever. But His Word says He elects according to His future foreknowledge (Which implies that there is something in the future that is swaying God's decision in choosing).
Useful? That isn't merit, not goodness deserving of salvation.
You said:God's foreknowledge. Yes. However, you are still presuming that he sees merit in the person and elects accordingly. That is not what the verses say.
You have only 3 choices in salvation. God alone saves people and gets the glory (Calvinism/Augustinianism).In short, I don't believe in Calvinism because I see free will is taught in the Bible.
We are given commands, and men have disobeyed them not because God wanted them to, but because they chose to disobey. Also, why have a judgment if God was the one who placed them there and they had no choice to be there?
Or God saves people but allows people to choose to be saved and he gets all the glory. (Not that he needs it)You have only 3 choices in salvation. God alone saves people and gets the glory (Calvinism/Augustinianism).
You save yourself with God's help and split the glory (Arminianism/Semipelagianism).
Or you save yourself without God's help and get all the glory (Pelagianism/Socinianism).
Look at the oldest example with Eve. God knew she would disobey him yet still set that stipulation.
How many sparrows are given eternal life?Jesus says you have more value than many sparrows.
There are two errors in that statement.Put on your detective cap. Think. What motivation is there of God to choose somebody based on His knowledge of the future if there was no condition in the individual whatsoever?
No, if you choose salvation, you get 1/2 the glory. Those who do not choose get 0.Or God saves people but allows people to choose to be saved and he gets all the glory. (Not that he needs it)
You have only 3 choices in salvation. God alone saves people and gets the glory (Calvinism/Augustinianism).
You save yourself with God's help and split the glory (Arminianism/Semipelagianism).
Or you save yourself without God's help and get all the glory (Pelagianism/Socinianism).
Logically speaking, this would be true. Or at least they deserve SOME of the glory/credit.No, if you choose salvation, you get 1/2 the glory. Those who do not choose get 0.
You believe God forces people to choose him or he will torture them forever = you make him out to be a bully unless people "say uncle".You have things confused. God does not get the glory by forcing some to believe and forcing others to not believe. No real world example will be able to defend your viewpoint here on Basic Morality 101.
In the real world, we know that when a person cooperates with their rescuer (like grabbing on to a rope to be pulled up off a cliff, or holding on to a life preserver in the water) does not equate with the person being rescued getting the glory. Most people praise the rescuer and not the person being rescued.
I agree, imagine being saved by the medics but thinking you share half of the glory because you followed his instructions. It's just stupid.You have things confused. God does not get the glory by forcing some to believe and forcing others to not believe. No real world example will be able to defend such a viewpoint using Basic Morality 101.
In the real world, we know that when a person cooperates with their rescuer (like grabbing on to a rope to be pulled up off a cliff, or holding on to a life preserver in the water) does not equate with the person being rescued getting the glory. Most people praise the rescuer and not the person being rescued.
How many sparrows are given eternal life?
You said:There are two errors in that statement.
1. You are asking for speculation, guesswork, presumptions. That is exactly what Bible-believers charge the goofier religions with doing. We cannot fall into that ourselves.
2. You are assuming that we must know ON WHAT BASIS God makes His decisions. There is no reason for us to do that, nor are we capable of doing it correctly. In Scripture, He revealed to us mortals what it is that he wants us to know and which we need to know..
This is not an example. It is more like a person in a coma who will starve unless fed intravenously. So a good Samaritan pays the bill and the guy recovers. Forever thankful and doing the same for others.I agree, imagine being saved by the medics but thinking you share half of the glory because you followed his instructions. It's just stupid.
Or the guy decides to leave and being ungratefulThis is not an example. It is more like a person in a coma who will starve unless fed intravenously. So a good Samaritan pays the bill and the guy recovers. Forever thankful and doing the same for others.
You believe God forces people to choose him or he will torture them forever = you make him out to be a bully unless people "say uncle".
But in all fairness, that scenario IS NOT parallel to what was argued earlier about the merits of the person justifying his salvation, etc.I agree, imagine being saved by the medics but thinking you share half of the glory because you followed his instructions. It's just stupid.
I was arguing cooperation with God does not mean you earn half of the credit.But in all fairness, that scenario IS NOT parallel to what was argued earlier about the merits of the person justifying his salvation, etc.
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