Why I do not accept evolution part one

[pitabread]

I am sure if God had wanted each creature to be wholly unique he could have done, but why would he?

Once again, that's my question to you. But once again, you're answering a question with a question.

We are unique because we are made in the image of God by having a spirit as well as the verse that says out flesh is different. It doesn't say if this is a phycial difference or to just the spirit and soul.

That's all well and good from a philosophical perspective, but it doesn't do us much good when discussing biology.

 

[coffee4u]

Once again, that's my question to you. But once again, you're answering a question with a question.

Because he wanted them that way. God can do whatever he wants. We don't get to tell him that things should be this way or that way.

That's all well and good from a philosophical perspective, but it doesn't do us much good when discussing biology.

I am not discussing biology, my viewpoint on all these threads is the Biblical world view.

 

[Strathos]

Because he wanted them that way. God can do whatever he wants.

Except use evolution, apparently.

 

[pitabread]

Because he wanted them that way. God can do whatever he wants. We don't get to tell him that things should be this way or that way.

Then if lifeforms were created independently, they were created to have the appearance of evolution.

I am not discussing biology

That is quite clear.

 

[coffee4u]

Except use evolution, apparently.

Since he stated categorically that he created everything in 6 days, definitely not evolution.

Exodus 20:11-13

11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

 

[coffee4u]

Then if lifeforms were created independently, they were created to have the appearance of evolution.

No they have an appearance of similarity, that is all.
It is you and others like you that deemed that similarity must mean things evolved. It is a story you spun around to explain the facts, not the facts themselves. They don't come with labels saying evolved.

That is quite clear.

I am here to uphold the word of God.

 

[Strathos]

Since he stated categorically that he created everything in 6 days, definitely not evolution.

Exodus 20:11-13

11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

If you assume that's literal and meant the same thing as a day in our understanding.

 

[pitabread]

No they have an appearance of similarity, that is all.

Once again, it's not strictly about similarity. It's about patterns that arise based on constraints due to genetic inheritance.

A creator making organisms independently wouldn't need to conform to those patterns; yet they inexplicably did anyway.

I am here to uphold the word of God.

Your version of it at any rate.

 

[Speedwell]

Since he stated categorically that he created everything in 6 days, definitely not evolution.

Exodus 20:11-13

11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

It's rather a shame that it's not in the first person.

 

[coffee4u]

If you assume that's literal and meant the same thing as a day in our understanding.

The text is being literal, it was a directive to the Israelites to keep the seventh day as the Sabbath. It isn't prophesy, wisdom or poetry.

It's rather a shame that it's not in the first person.

And now you are splitting hairs over who wrote it or POV. We all know that God didn't put pen to paper he told others what he wanted to be written down. The only time I can think of God writing was on the tablets he handed to Moses and possibly the handwriting on the wall.
2 Timothy 3:16-17

16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

 

[Speedwell]

The text is being literal, it was a directive to the Israelites to keep the seventh day as the Sabbath. It isn't prophesy, wisdom or poetry.



And now you are splitting hairs over who wrote it or POV. We all know that God didn't put pen to paper he told others what he wanted to be written down. The only time I can think of God writing was on the tablets he handed to Moses and possibly the handwriting on the wall.
2 Timothy 3:16-17

16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

I think it is safe to say that all Christians subscribe to that passage, believe it to be the truth. Even those who, throughout Christian history, have not read Genesis as literal history.

 

[Strathos]

The text is being literal, it was a directive to the Israelites to keep the seventh day as the Sabbath. It isn't prophesy, wisdom or poetry.

There is definite dispute about that, especially since a 'day' can mean something quite different to God than to us.

 

[coffee4u]

There is definite dispute about that, especially since a 'day' can mean something quite different to God than to us.

When God is talking to us or the Israelites and giving a timed directive he is using normal earth time. He created it for us. Which has nothing to do with God being outside of time himself.

 

[Bungle_Bear]

When God is talking to us or the Israelites and giving a timed directive he is using normal earth time. He created it for us. Which has nothing to do with God being outside of time himself.

It's nice to know we have God's mouthpiece on these forums to clarify any misunderstandings we may have......

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

It's nice to know we have God's mouthpiece on these forums to clarify any misunderstandings we may have......

The writing's on the wall... (graffiti?)

 

[FredVB]

Your belief that special creation must somehow have each animal in no way similar is not Biblical, that is completely your own view. I am sure if God had wanted each creature to be wholly unique he could have done, but why would he?

Once again, that's my question to you. But once again, you're answering a question with a question.

Clearly the original kinds were meant, being created as unique from others, but that still does not mean there would be no similarities, the creator would surely make unique kinds after common patterns. I can understand making things from my creativity in groups for those with common patterns with similarities.

Then if lifeforms were created independently, they were created to have the appearance of evolution.

Evolution that was a concept that was around for a few hundred years but not the thousands of years before it, the concept came as one interpretation of what is found, with looking for explanation from natural processes without the creator. That is the approach, not the resulting logical conclusion. It is explanable with the creation being made in a pattern with similarities among groups of different kinds, as many of us who could be creators in some way with our own works might do from our creativity. It is not excluded necessarily.

Writing on the wall was clearly a reference to Daniel 5:5 and it was apparently assumed that would be understood.

 

[Shemjaza]

Clearly the original kinds were meant, being created as unique from others, but that still does not mean there would be no similarities, the creator would surely make unique kinds after common patterns. I can understand making things from my creativity in groups for those with common patterns with similarities.



Evolution that was a concept that was around for a few hundred years but not the thousands of years before it, the concept came as one interpretation of what is found, with looking for explanation from natural processes without the creator. That is the approach, not the resulting logical conclusion. It is explanable with the creation being made in a pattern with similarities among groups of different kinds, as many of us who could be creators in some way with our own works might do from our creativity. It is not excluded necessarily.

Writing on the wall was clearly a reference to Daniel 5:5 and it was apparently assumed that would be understood.

It's not merely the appearance of evolution, it's the internal genetic scars and remnants of past evolution.

An omnipotent God could create reptiles, birds and mammals independently and make the warm blooded birds more genetically similar to the cold blooded reptiles than to the warm blooded mammals. However, why on earth would he create these birds with the broken switched off genes for teeth structured like the working teeth genes from a lizard?

Can you explain why separate kinds make a branching tree of similarities, rather than all life being custom designed?

An omnipotent God doesn't need to cut corners... any effort or specific precision is as easy for him to achieve.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

It's not merely the appearance of evolution, it's the internal genetic scars and remnants of past evolution.

An omnipotent God could create reptiles, birds and mammals independently and make the warm blooded birds more genetically similar to the cold blooded reptiles than to the warm blooded mammals. However, why on earth would he create these birds with the broken switched off genes for teeth structured like the working teeth genes from a lizard?

Can you explain why separate kinds make a branching tree of similarities, rather than all life being custom designed?

An omnipotent God doesn't need to cut corners... any effort or specific precision is as easy for him to achieve.

If we dig up the past and look at the record- we see similarities, shared traits, some gaps/jumps dead ends, redundant features and even some regressions- but a general trend towards increased sophistication, right? So what does this pattern tell you about how the different designs came about?

 

[Speedwell]

If we dig up the past and look at the record- we see similarities, shared traits, some gaps/jumps dead ends, redundant features and even some regressions- but a general trend towards increased sophistication, right? So what does this pattern tell you about how the different designs came about?

It certainly suggests random variation and natural selection.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

It certainly suggests random variation and natural selection.

Sorry to set the trap... but I was describing the exact pattern you would find at an auto salvage yard.

Not to say this is 'slam dunk' evidence for design in itself, but to be fair, creative design IS the only proven method of achieving this particular pattern.
Whether nature can also achieve this remains unproven. At the very least, we certainly cannot use this pattern to suggest, far less prove 'random error + natural selection' as the most plausible explanation