Why I dislike Calvinism

Mountainmanbob said:

What If no man would have made a decision for Christ then he came and died for nothing.

M-Bob

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No, He died for all mankind, reconciling them to God, per 2 Cor 5:14,15,19.

He did all that was necessary for the salvation of everyone. His death purchased the gift of eternal life for everyone, and whosoever believes in Him receives this gift.

By dying for everyone, He is properly the Savior of the world John 4:42, 1 Tim 4:10

those that Jesus died for are saved.

Mountainmanbob said:

Who did Jesus die for? Did Jesus die for everyone?

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This is the page that link goes to.
I made a certain part red to highlight.

Question: "Who did Jesus die for? Did Jesus die for everyone?"

Answer: Exactly whom Jesus died for is a point of theological disagreement among evangelical Bible believers. Some Christians believe that Jesus died only for the elect; this is the doctrine of limited atonement, the L in Calvinism’s TULIP. Other Christians believe that Jesus died for everyone who has or ever will live; this is the doctrine of unlimited atonement, held by Arminians and most four-point Calvinists, or Amyraldians.

Limited atonement, sometimes called particular redemption, is based on the doctrine of election or predestination (Romans 8:30, 33; Titus 1:1). Since only the elect of God will be saved, the reasoning goes, Jesus must have died only for them. Otherwise, Jesus’ death “failed” those who are not elect. If Jesus died for everyone, then hell will be full of people for whom Jesus died—was His atonement insufficient? If Jesus died only for the elect, then His atonement perfectly accomplished its goal. Every person for whom Jesus died will be in heaven.

Unlimited atonement, on the other hand, says that Jesus died for everyone but that only those who respond in faith will reap the benefits of His sacrifice. In other words, Jesus’ death was sufficient for all, but only effectual for some (those who have faith). If Jesus did not die for everyone, the reasoning goes, then the offer of salvation is empty, because the non-elect cannot be saved. The teaching of unlimited atonement is based on verses such as 1 John 2:2, “He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.”

Precise theological thinking is a good thing. We are called to be students of the Word (2 Timothy 2:15). But on this point, it seems that most people follow a theological system to get to their answer, rather than the clear Word of God. If it were not for theological systems (namely, Calvinism and Arminianism), the question of whom Jesus died for would probably never come up—but it has come up! One side says that, if Christ did not die for all, then there can be no genuine offer of salvation. The other side says that, if Christ died for some who will never be saved, then His death in some sense fails to accomplish its purpose. Either way, there seems to be an attack upon God’s character or Christ’s work—either God’s love is limited or Jesus’ power is limited. This presents an unnecessary dilemma and creates a tension where none need exist. We know that God’s love is infinite (Psalm 107:1) and that Christ’s power is infinite (Colossians 1:16–17). The dilemma is a false one of our own making.

In short, the offer of salvation is universal—to all who will believe (Romans 10:11, 13). We also know that, regardless of how broad Christ’s atonement is, it is limited in some respect—it is effective only for those who believe (John 3:18).

John 10 provides more insight into the issue of whom Jesus died for. In that passage we see that Christ died for His sheep (John 10:11, 15). Also, all who are His sheep will come to Him (verses 4 and 27), and they are kept secure in Christ (verses 28–30). However, when we share the gospel, we don’t try to “pre-screen” the hearers of the message. We don’t delve into who are the elect or for whom Jesus may or may not have died. Those discussions would distract from the goal of evangelism. When presenting the gospel, we simply say, “Jesus died for your sin, and He rose again from the dead. His death is sufficient to pay for your sins if you will put your faith in Him.” This is a biblically accurate statement, and it avoids trying to get too specific. The preaching of the apostles in the New Testament doesn’t try to cut it more finely than that.

Here are more Scriptures stating He died for more than the elect.
John 1:29 Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world,
Romans 11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
1 John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

tulipbee said:

those that Jesus died for are saved.

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And the sins of the ones who are not saved are not covered by the blood.

Fact the Bible teaches that most are going to hell.

MB

Doug Melven said:

Here are more Scriptures stating He died for more than the elect.
John 1:29 Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world,
Romans 11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
1 John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

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my home is my little world and I own it and you don't !

Mountainmanbob said:

Who did Jesus die for? Did Jesus die for everyone?

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2 Cor 5:
14 For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died.
15And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.

Heb 2:9 - But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

1 John 2:2 - He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 Pet 3:18 - For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.

Are you willing to argue that of everyone in the human race, only the "elect" are the unrighteous?

Or are you willing to accept that the entire human race are the unrighteous?

tulipbee said:

those that Jesus died for are saved.

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Some of them.

tulipbee said:

my home is my little world and I own it and you don't !

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If that’s your personal definition of world in your mind, but that is not how the Bible is referring to the word “world”

Mountainmanbob said:

And the sins of the ones who are not saved are not covered by the blood.

Fact the Bible teaches that most are going to hell.

MB

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It seems your view is that Christ's death actually saves people. Thus, it would make sense that those for whom He never died cannot be saved, and will go to hell.

Well, let's look at what Scripture, not Calvin, says about the subject.

Rom 4:25 - He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.

Then, the very next verse:
Rom 5:1 - Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

So we see that Christ's resurrection (raised to life) was for the salvation of those who believe. Not for those who were elect.

The entire nation of Israel was elect, yet there were many unbelievers in that nation throughout their history.

Judas was elect, but unsaved. John 6:70,71.

tulipbee said:

my home is my little world and I own it and you don't !

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Yes, you are free to believe whatever you want to believe.

But truth is truth, regardless of what is in your own little world.

tulipbee said:

my home is my little world and I own it and you don't !

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I see this as another problem with Calvinism: Arrogance.
I thought God owned the whole world?
Psalm 50:12
If I were hungry, I would not tell thee: for the world is mine, and the fulness thereof.

Mountainmanbob said:

And the sins of the ones who are not saved are not covered by the blood.

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Could you provide a Scripture?

Mountainmanbob said:

Fact the Bible teaches that most are going to hell.

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Very true, because they won't believe. Acts 28:27

For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

He died for the ones that were his sheep.

Many if not most are not his sheep thus go to the hot place.

M-Bob

Mountainmanbob said:

He died for the ones that were his sheep.

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Can you show a Scripture that says He died for His sheep ONLY?
Or if you can't provide a Scripture, at least explain 1 John 2:2.

MDC said:

So the elect are those who are of faith by Gods grace

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Very true.

MDC said:

Christ death DID actually save people. Which is obvious you deny.

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Who denies? Not me, not freegrace2.
Jesus said He came to seek and save the lost.

Not so fast for it seems he did not die for all.

Mountainmanbob said:

Not so fast for it seems he did not die for all.

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Still waiting for a Scripture. Human reasoning is worthless.

Mountainmanbob said:

He died for the ones that were his sheep.

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Please re-read John 10. No verse says He died for his sheep. Every verse about His dying is for THE sheep, all the while the context notes there are His sheep, others of His, and those not of His.

Many if not most are not his sheep thus go to the hot place.

M-Bob

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Not because He didn't die for them.

FreeGrace2 said:

Please re-read John 10. No verse says He died for his sheep. Every verse about His dying is for THE sheep, all the while the context notes there are His sheep, others of His, and those not of His.


Not because He didn't die for them.

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The sheep are His sheep.. Therefore the elect of God that come to faith in Him by the election of grace which makes up both Jew and gentile. His sheep are those that are saved and will be saved in time only; the elect of God