Why I am still a Seventh-day Adventist

[Laodicean]

I use the word "still" because I have come to realize that this forum consists of not only SDAs but ex-SDAs who make arguments for why they are no longer SDAs. It has made me stop and think and
reevaluate why I am a SDA. Do they have something that I missed? Something more that I need? Am I stuck in a rut, a box of my own making? Possibly. I should never think that I know it all, that I have arrived.

Having pondered a while, however, I find that, in spite of a number of objections raised here, I choose to remain SDA still.

Don't get me wrong. I don't necessarily mean the SDA denomination, per se, but more so, the concept. There are two core beliefs of SDAs that can be rephrased in other versions of the name SDA. I could be called a Sabbath Parousian, or a 7th-day Arrivalist, or a Sabbath believer in the Return -- make that Seventh-day Returnist, and so on.... These are two core beliefs that I find are firmly anchored in a relationship with Jesus Christ. How so?

7th day = Specific time routinely set aside to be spent remembering Who is my Creator and Re-Creator. Exclusive time used in getting to know Him better.

Adventist: Looking forward to meeting my Creator in person...hopefully soon. It is like communicating with someone you love who is on the other side of the world, and as great as that communication is, you can't wait to meet him/her in person. Same for the second advent. Jesus is real, and since He kept His promise and came the first time, I can depend on Him that He will keep His promise and come again.

Out of these two core beliefs stem every other doctrinal belief that SDAs hold and, for me, it all adds up to a meaningful lifestyle...a reason to not merely exist, but to live the abundant life.

So that is why I remain a Sabbath-keeping Christian who looks for the soon return of my Friend and Saviour, Jesus Christ. I remain SDA, not because of the people in the church, some nice, others not so nice. It really does not matter the level of "niceness" of people in the church, because we are all on the same journey together and we are all growing, one way or another. So, no, I do not remain SDA because of the people or because of some club mentality or because of the organized institution, but because I can find no reason to let go of those two core beliefs which have enriched my life and my growing relationship with God and with others.

So, there you have it: the two main reasons why I am still an SDA.

What are yours?

 

[Kira Light]

Nice post! Not to start a big argument, but it seems to me you could have all the same things without being SDA if in fact all the 7th day means to you is some time set aside to "remember". Most peoples problem with the SDA's is that they place WAY more importance on Sabbath keeping (the fate of your soul is at stake). The majority of the church seems to be inching away from that, but its kind of always there in the background.

 

[Pythons]

It's difficult to understand SDA teaching from my perspective.........
....In part because of the way the denomination was founded.

William Miller believed he discovered a prophetic time scheme that predicted the return of Christ......
......The prophetic time scheme required the Cross to be in 31 A.D. at the time of the Jewish Passover.

........According to the Scriptures the Passover that Jesus died within was one that fell on a Friday, Sat, Sun using Gregorian days.
William Miller could not produce a Friday, Sat, Sun Passover in 31 A.D. using a Gregorian Calendar.......

.....Miller was required to use an ancient Karite Jewish calendar which allowed for a seventh day Sabbath on Nisan 14 31 A.D.
Yet the SDA did not adopt this calendar used to incept their own religion and determine Liturgy from a Gregorian calendar........

How does this work?

 

[k4c]

I use the word "still" because I have come to realize that this forum consists of not only SDAs but ex-SDAs who make arguments for why they are no longer SDAs. It has made me stop and think and
reevaluate why I am a SDA. Do they have something that I missed? Something more that I need? Am I stuck in a rut, a box of my own making? Possibly. I should never think that I know it all, that I have arrived.

Having pondered a while, however, I find that, in spite of a number of objections raised here, I choose to remain SDA still.

Don't get me wrong. I don't necessarily mean the SDA denomination, per se, but more so, the concept. There are two core beliefs of SDAs that can be rephrased in other versions of the name SDA. I could be called a Sabbath Parousian, or a 7th-day Arrivalist, or a Sabbath believer in the Return -- make that Seventh-day Returnist, and so on.... These are two core beliefs that I find are firmly anchored in a relationship with Jesus Christ. How so?

7th day = Specific time routinely set aside to be spent remembering Who is my Creator and Re-Creator. Exclusive time used in getting to know Him better.

Adventist: Looking forward to meeting my Creator in person...hopefully soon. It is like communicating with someone you love who is on the other side of the world, and as great as that communication is, you can't wait to meet him/her in person. Same for the second advent. Jesus is real, and since He kept His promise and came the first time, I can depend on Him that He will keep His promise and come again.

Out of these two core beliefs stem every other doctrinal belief that SDAs hold and, for me, it all adds up to a meaningful lifestyle...a reason to not merely exist, but to live the abundant life.

So that is why I remain a Sabbath-keeping Christian who looks for the soon return of my Friend and Saviour, Jesus Christ. I remain SDA, not because of the people in the church, some nice, others not so nice. It really does not matter the level of "niceness" of people in the church, because we are all on the same journey together and we are all growing, one way or another. So, no, I do not remain SDA because of the people or because of some club mentality or because of the organized institution, but because I can find no reason to let go of those two core beliefs which have enriched my life and my growing relationship with God and with others.

So, there you have it: the two main reasons why I am still an SDA.

What are yours?

Hi Lao,

About 15 years ago God did a powerful work in my life which caused me to turn 180 degrees. I went from having no interest in God to having a hunger for Him that caused me to travel from Maine to Florida to learn about Him.

I began in mainline churches and graduated from Moody Bible Institute, which is basically a Baptist Bible School.

After seeking God for several years I started a youth ministry called, Kids 4 Christ. It was then that I really had to study the Scriptures for myself because I had to put Bible studies together to teach. It was during this time in my walk that I began finding verses that didn't make sense, in other words, I didn't have the keys to unlock what they meant based on what I was taught over the years. This led me to search for a more clearer understanding of God's word.

One of my first challenges was the state of the dead. I was always taught to believe that when we die we either go right to heaven or hell but what I was reading in the Bible was not what I was taught. The next thing that I struggled with was OSAS (eternal security). I was always taught that once you believe, you're in no matter what. This too I was not seeing in the Scriptures. The more God revealed, the less fellowship, based on truth, I found in mainline churches.

I started searching for fellowship figuring that if I can see these things in the Bible then there must be others who can see them too. I continued studying and searching when I came across this TV program called, Amazing Facts. They came on early Sunday morning so I had to get up early specifically to watch Amazing Facts. Just about everything the preacher was saying I was seeing in the scriptures. This went on for seveal months before I learned Amazing Facts was connected to the SDA.

About three years ago I was baptized and became a member of the SDA.

Even though there are some things I don't agree with within the SDA denomination, there is so much more that I do agree with. I believe the SDA is changing to more of the way I see the Scriptures in certain areas but it's a slow process.

I believe we are all saved by the grace of God from beginning to end and we're all at different levels and grow at different speeds. Some times we take three steps forward and two steps backwards and I believe God will use all our steps to bring us closer to Him in the end. He does make all things to work togather for good for those who love Him and are called according to His purpose.

So in short, I became an SDA and continue in the SDA faith because it has the clearest understanig of Scripture and a love for God to share with the world.

 

[Joe67]

I joined the SdA church at the age of 12 in 1954. I had just finished a program of studying the history of the founding of the U.S.A. required at our 8th grade school for graduation. Elder E.J.Falkenberg came to our area and did a presentation of Daniel and Revelation using "black light." The study of the nations took on an increased understanding after attending this presentation.

The Lord put a desire in my heart to follow this. This involved not continuing in my Saturday sports program in our town in central California. My parents did not require this of me. The Lord made me glad in the simple childish worship of him who spoke to us through the prophets to the family of Abraham.

Justification by faith, apart from the law, came to my heart and mind in the early 70s and as I began sharing this light with my church members, there was a great deal of resistance. Eventually in the early 80's the resistance became such that I was asked to be silent. So I shook the dust of my feet and went to others outside the SdA church. Eventually, like the Phillistines with David, the other churches would go no further than where their ordained ministers had herded them.

Then the Lord gave me to see that all groups, through liberal education, were drinking from the same fountain of thought which had been established in the 1600's and had become the foundational point for all western accredited education. I had graduated from an SdA accredited college in 1964 and had attended the seminary at Andrews U. for about 3 months. I was being paid by the Upper Columbia Conference to attend the seminary and had received a call to the ministry through this Conference.

Recently I attended the local SdA church a few times, but with the centralized control of thought through the downloading of information by satellite, the opportunity for personal study of the integrated Scriptures was not accepted. Individual contextual control for each prophetic and apostolic witness now being the controlling academic process, the integration of the testimony of the Spirit of Jesus is as effectually blocked as though the Scriptures were not available.

SdAism is founded in principles of Leviticus 16. It is out of this fountain of revelation that Sabbath keeping was brought forth. The childish novice understands this as talking concerning a 24 hr time period. But as the fuller witness of God through the prophets after Moses, including David, and then the revelation through Jesus and his apostles, the Sabbath is revealed as the place for death in the pursuit of life.

2 Cor 4:10
10 Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body. KJV

The death of Jesus is our justification with God. The life of Jesus is our sanctification in the power of the resurrection to minister those who are weaker than us.

The death of Jesus is Jewish sabbath-keeping. It is circumcision with blood.

The life (resurrection) of Jesus is Gentile sabbath-keeping. It is uncircumcision without blood and by the voice of the Lord; i.e., "you are my son, this day have I begotten you." "you are a priest forever after the order of Melchisedec."

Abraham is the father of both the circumcised and the uncircumcised.

I believe that the Lord began a work in the people he called out, who took the name of SdA, but they like Israel of old, sought the righteousness of this calling by the works of the law instead of the faith (meaning) of it in the resurrected Jesus in the sanctuary above.

The Lord has a remnant reserved unto himself who have not bowed the knee to Baal. They are scattered in the 4 corners of the revelation of God in Jesus Christ.

Joe

 

[Laodicean]

Nice post! Not to start a big argument,

Lol, Kira Light. I get it. This forum will be boring if there is no debate, right? At least for some, anyway. I have to admit that I do enjoy a good debate myself, but when it comes to spiritual matters, an area that I consider to be life and death, I have discovered that argument usually defeats spiritual insights and growth. It becomes all about winning and losing, and what good is that in spiritual matters?

but it seems to me you could have all the same things without being SDA if in fact all the 7th day means to you is some time set aside to "remember"

But how would I have "all the same things without being SDA"? I have a weekly "date" with God. I try to devote the seventh day totally to Him and His wishes. So if I remember that day as the day to remember God and His creative works, then automatically I'm a seventh-day believer; am I not? And if I look forward to meeting God in Person soon, that would take care of the "Adventist" part of the name, wouldn't it? So I don't see how you can say I could have "all these same things" without being SDA. Or did I misunderstand you?

Most peoples problem with the SDA's is that they place WAY more importance on Sabbath keeping (the fate of your soul is at stake). The majority of the church seems to be inching away from that, but its kind of always there in the background.

Well, in a way, I'd have to say, yes, the fate of your soul is indeed at stake if remembering the Sabbath, as God requests, is something that you don't want to do, or that you think of as unimportant.

A relationship either grows or deteriorates depending on the time you give it. If you like a person and enjoy being around them, you are quite happy if they request a weekly date with you. If you don't particularly like the person, a weekly date becomes burdensome, something to be avoided.
In human relations, this is not critical. You get to choose without any major loss.

But with God, it is a life-and-death matter whether you form and grow a relationship with Him, or not. Why? Because it is in relationship with God that we are saved. A daily walk with God can grow closer and closer to the point that Sabbath becomes a day to be anticipated with great pleasure. I submit that remembering the Sabbath can be a litmus test of how much we enjoy being around God. It can be pretty telling about the depth of one's relationship with one's Creator, like nothing else can be. Speaking for myself, I know it tests me weekly.

So, yes, Sabbath keeping is indeed a matter of "your soul is at stake," not because to keep it will save your soul (legalism) but to remember it is to remember God and grow in relationship with Him so that you remain in a saved state.

Sabbath rest gives you exclusive time to get to know God. And, wow, God is a mind-blowing Person to know! I'm still just barely wading at the edge of a deep, deep ocean of God. There's just so much to know. Here's just one little insight I've found, and that's only barely scratching the surface. God laughs. He has a delightful sense of humor! Who would have thought it!!

Anybody else have insights into what our God is like? Do share!

 

[Laodicean]

It's difficult to understand SDA teaching from my perspective.........
....In part because of the way the denomination was founded.

William Miller believed he discovered a prophetic time scheme that predicted the return of Christ......
......The prophetic time scheme required the Cross to be in 31 A.D. at the time of the Jewish Passover.

........According to the Scriptures the Passover that Jesus died within was one that fell on a Friday, Sat, Sun using Gregorian days.
William Miller could not produce a Friday, Sat, Sun Passover in 31 A.D. using a Gregorian Calendar.......

.....Miller was required to use an ancient Karite Jewish calendar which allowed for a seventh day Sabbath on Nisan 14 31 A.D.
Yet the SDA did not adopt this calendar used to incept their own religion and determine Liturgy from a Gregorian calendar........

How does this work?

I didn't know anything abbout a Karite Jewish calendar, Pythons. You are giving me food for thought. I know that VictorC has talked about a Wednesday crucifixion, and two Sabbaths in that passover week, one of them a high Sabbath, and the other the weekly Sabbath. His position makes sense to me. What do you think of that? Would it change your calculations any as to how Miller calculated his dates?

 

[Laodicean]

Hi Lao,

About 15 years ago God did a powerful work in my life which caused me to turn 180 degrees. I went from having no interest in God to having a hunger for Him that caused me to travel from Maine to Florida to learn about Him.

I began in mainline churches and graduated from Moody Bible Institute, which is basically a Baptist Bible School.

After seeking God for several years I started a youth ministry called, Kids 4 Christ. It was then that I really had to study the Scriptures for myself because I had to put Bible studies together to teach. It was during this time in my walk that I began finding verses that didn't make sense, in other words, I didn't have the keys to unlock what they meant based on what I was taught over the years. This led me to search for a more clearer understanding of God's word.

One of my first challenges was the state of the dead. I was always taught to believe that when we die we either go right to heaven or hell but what I was reading in the Bible was not what I was taught. The next thing that I struggled with was OSAS (eternal security). I was always taught that once you believe, you're in no matter what. This too I was not seeing in the Scriptures. The more God revealed, the less fellowship, based on truth, I found in mainline churches.

I started searching for fellowship figuring that if I can see these things in the Bible then there must be others who can see them too. I continued studying and searching when I came across this TV program called, Amazing Facts. They came on early Sunday morning so I had to get up early specifically to watch Amazing Facts. Just about everything the preacher was saying I was seeing in the scriptures. This went on for seveal months before I learned Amazing Facts was connected to the SDA.

About three years ago I was baptized and became a member of the SDA.

Even though there are some things I don't agree with within the SDA denomination, there is so much more that I do agree with. I believe the SDA is changing to more of the way I see the Scriptures in certain areas but it's a slow process.

I believe we are all saved by the grace of God from beginning to end and we're all at different levels and grow at different speeds. Some times we take three steps forward and two steps backwards and I believe God will use all our steps to bring us closer to Him in the end. He does make all things to work togather for good for those who love Him and are called according to His purpose.

So in short, I became an SDA and continue in the SDA faith because it has the clearest understanig of Scripture and a love for God to share with the world.

Hi, k4c, thanks for the interesting conversion account. You are truly an independent thinker! Welcome to the family

 

[Laodicean]

I joined the SdA church at the age of 12 in 1954. I had just finished a program of studying the history of the founding of the U.S.A. required at our 8th grade school for graduation. Elder E.J.Falkenberg came to our area and did a presentation of Daniel and Revelation using "black light." The study of the nations took on an increased understanding after attending this presentation.

The Lord put a desire in my heart to follow this. This involved not continuing in my Saturday sports program in our town in central California. My parents did not require this of me. The Lord made me glad in the simple childish worship of him who spoke to us through the prophets to the family of Abraham.

Justification by faith, apart from the law, came to my heart and mind in the early 70s and as I began sharing this light with my church members, there was a great deal of resistance. Eventually in the early 80's the resistance became such that I was asked to be silent. So I shook the dust of my feet and went to others outside the SdA church. Eventually, like the Phillistines with David, the other churches would go no further than where their ordained ministers had herded them.

Then the Lord gave me to see that all groups, through liberal education, were drinking from the same fountain of thought which had been established in the 1600's and had become the foundational point for all western accredited education. I had graduated from an SdA accredited college in 1964 and had attended the seminary at Andrews U. for about 3 months. I was being paid by the Upper Columbia Conference to attend the seminary and had received a call to the ministry through this Conference.

Recently I attended the local SdA church a few times, but with the centralized control of thought through the downloading of information by satellite, the opportunity for personal study of the integrated Scriptures was not accepted. Individual contextual control for each prophetic and apostolic witness now being the controlling academic process, the integration of the testimony of the Spirit of Jesus is as effectually blocked as though the Scriptures were not available.

SdAism is founded in principles of Leviticus 16. It is out of this fountain of revelation that Sabbath keeping was brought forth. The childish novice understands this as talking concerning a 24 hr time period. But as the fuller witness of God through the prophets after Moses, including David, and then the revelation through Jesus and his apostles, the Sabbath is revealed as the place for death in the pursuit of life.

2 Cor 4:10
10 Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body. KJV

The death of Jesus is our justification with God. The life of Jesus is our sanctification in the power of the resurrection to minister those who are weaker than us.

The death of Jesus is Jewish sabbath-keeping. It is circumcision with blood.

The life (resurrection) of Jesus is Gentile sabbath-keeping. It is uncircumcision without blood and by the voice of the Lord; i.e., "you are my son, this day have I begotten you." "you are a priest forever after the order of Melchisedec."

Abraham is the father of both the circumcised and the uncircumcised.

I believe that the Lord began a work in the people he called out, who took the name of SdA, but they like Israel of old, sought the righteousness of this calling by the works of the law instead of the faith (meaning) of it in the resurrected Jesus in the sanctuary above.

The Lord has a remnant reserved unto himself who have not bowed the knee to Baal. They are scattered in the 4 corners of the revelation of God in Jesus Christ.

Joe

You have been on quite a journey, Joe. Another independent thinker here! You have an interesting take on Sabbathkeeping. Something to think about. ........

I know Hebrews talks about a Sabbath rest that remains for us still, and I've always understood that to mean that the 7th day Sabbath is symbolic of or at least a reminder of a deeper rest that many still have not found -- and that is rest from our own works. Do you look upon a remembering of the Sabbath day as works oriented, or relationship oriented?

 

[VictorC]

You have been on quite a journey, Joe. Another independent thinker here! You have an interesting take on Sabbathkeeping. Something to think about. ........

I know Hebrews talks about a Sabbath rest that remains for us still, and I've always understood that to mean that the 7th day Sabbath is symbolic of or at least a reminder of a deeper rest that many still have not found -- and that is rest from our own works. Do you look upon a remembering of the Sabbath day as works oriented, or relationship oriented?

Why do you still claim that you're going to "keep" a sabbath when Hebrews 4 clearly describes a promised rest that remained for those who had been bound to the sabbath for about 1500 years? Isn't it evident that the sabbath didn't provide God's "My rest" that we have entered into, and was called another day?

Hebrews 4
4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: "And God rested on the seventh day from all His works";
5 and again in this place: "They shall not enter My rest."
6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience,
7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, "Today," after such a long time, as it has been said: "Today, if you will hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts."
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.
10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.

The origin of God's rest is identified by a quote out of Genesis 2:2, thousands of years before the sabbath was ordained. God's rest was permanent, and it is His rest that we have entered into. This is the sabbatismos rest mentioned in Hebrews 4:9.

Not the sabbath. The sabbath repeated every week, was never permanent, and the periodic sabbaton is never mentioned in this text.
We have entered into a permanent rest the sabbath was a mere shadow of.

 

[VictorC]

I didn't know anything abbout a Karite Jewish calendar, Pythons. You are giving me food for thought. I know that VictorC has talked about a Wednesday crucifixion, and two Sabbaths in that passover week, one of them a high Sabbath, and the other the weekly Sabbath. His position makes sense to me. What do you think of that? Would it change your calculations any as to how Miller calculated his dates?

It doesn't matter how William Miller calculated his dates. Miller abandoned the model he invented, and would not endorse anyone's application of his self-admitted faulty model to a scene outside of earth.

 

[VictorC]

Most peoples problem with the SDA's is that they place WAY more importance on Sabbath keeping (the fate of your soul is at stake).

Well, in a way, I'd have to say, yes, the fate of your soul is indeed at stake if remembering the Sabbath, as God requests, is something that you don't want to do, or that you think of as unimportant.

Oh My!
Your salvation is requisite on your obedience to the first covenant that God delivered us from (Romans 7:6-7)? The one God concluded all disobedient to (Romans 11:32)? I fixed that opinion in your post that God requests us to keep the sabbath He took away, as it is impossible to reconcile with Scripture.

How is one to view this assertion as anything less than denial of Christ's redemption and a rejection to enter into His rest that the sabbath never provided?

 

[Byfaithalone1]

I use the word "still" because I have come to realize that this forum consists of not only SDAs but ex-SDAs who make arguments for why they are no longer SDAs.

Among the ones who post here most often, only a couple of us are former SDAs. Folks such as Stormy, Aza and Avonia are SDAs. Victor was never a member of the SDA denomination. I've never seen any of us who are former SDAs urge urrent SDAs to leave the SDA denomination. Perhaps this is merely an issue of perception?

BTW, "ex-SDA" is such a combative term. I was not disfellowshipped. I left quietly, calmly and respectfully through my own decision.

It has made me stop and think and reevaluate why I am a SDA. Do they have something that I missed? Something more that I need? Am I stuck in a rut, a box of my own making? Possibly. I should never think that I know it all, that I have arrived. Having pondered a while, however, I find that, in spite of a number of objections raised here, I choose to remain SDA still.

That's OK with me. I have never asked you to do otherwise.

Don't get me wrong. I don't necessarily mean the SDA denomination, per se, but more so, the concept. There are two core beliefs of SDAs that can be rephrased in other versions of the name SDA. I could be called a Sabbath Parousian, or a 7th-day Arrivalist, or a Sabbath believer in the Return -- make that Seventh-day Returnist, and so on.... These are two core beliefs that I find are firmly anchored in a relationship with Jesus Christ. How so? 7th day = Specific time routinely set aside to be spent remembering Who is my Creator and Re-Creator. Exclusive time used in getting to know Him better.

If the seventh-day sabbath is a blessing for you, I would never ask you to abandon it.

Adventist: Looking forward to meeting my Creator in person...hopefully soon. It is like communicating with someone you love who is on the other side of the world, and as great as that communication is, you can't wait to meet him/her in person. Same for the second advent. Jesus is real, and since He kept His promise and came the first time, I can depend on Him that He will keep His promise and come again.

I am comfortable with the idea of looking forward to seeing Jesus. However, I am also pretty excited about the benefits that He has for me in the here and now. That is where I live.

Out of these two core beliefs stem every other doctrinal belief that SDAs hold and, for me, it all adds up to a meaningful lifestyle...a reason to not merely exist, but to live the abundant life.

Is it safe to say that your reason for existence is wrapped up in your doctrinal beliefs? What happens if your doctrinal beliefs change? Will your reason for existence change or disappear?

So, there you have it: the two main reasons why I am still an SDA. What are yours?

As a former SDA, I could not find sufficient reason to remain. That's why I'm a former.

BFA

 

[VictorC]

Victor was never a member of the SDA denomination.

Well, I attended three days in a SDA Revelation Seminar when I was a new Christian. Does that count for something? It was probably the first occasion I heard the Voice of God telling me to do something: get up out of your chair, and leave. At the time I didn't know why.

That was 28 years ago.
The "why" has been answered during those years.
That short story embodies the reason I wasn't a member of the SDA church.

 

[Pythons]

I didn't know anything abbout a Karite Jewish calendar, Pythons. You are giving me food for thought. I know that VictorC has talked about a Wednesday crucifixion, and two Sabbaths in that passover week, one of them a high Sabbath, and the other the weekly Sabbath. His position makes sense to me. What do you think of that? Would it change your calculations any as to how Miller calculated his dates?

Yeah, I would agree with Victor that 14 Nisan in 31 A.D. was a Gregorian Wed. At least that's what the tables I've look at show. William Miller knew this but needed the 31 A.D. Passover to be the date for the cross. He had to move the Sabbath so that it would sync with the Gospel accounts & a Gregorian Fri, Sat, Sun.

Jesus died on the 6th day of the week ( the day of prep ) followed by a seventh day Sabbath and subsequently rose from the dead on the 1st day of the week.



Everyone at Miller's time knew there was not a fri, sat, sun Passover in 31 A.D. and that's why Miller adopted an ancient Karite Calendar, because every Passover, every year falls on a Sabbath.

 

[Joe67]

John 7:52-53


52 They answered and said unto him, Art thou also of Galilee? Search, and look: for out of Galilee ariseth no prophet.

53 And every man went unto his own house. KJV

Joe

 

[Laodicean]

Why do you still claim that you're going to "keep" a sabbath when Hebrews 4 clearly describes a promised rest that remained for those who had been bound to the sabbath for about 1500 years?

VictorC, I will answer this because you have asked a question, not because I want to argue with you, okay? I respect your freedom to believe as you do, and I most definitely do not demand that you must agree with me. But since you ask, I will share with you my perspective.

The way I see it is that when I cease striving to save myself through my own works, I enter God's rest. And, for me, I am given a weekly reminder (Remember) of this state of being. When I rest from my daily activities every seventh day, I am acknowledging, on an ongoing basis, that I am resting in God. This kind of resting, to me, is the same as "keeping" the Sabbath. The "keeping" is not about an effort, but about letting go and relaxing.

By the way, I would be interested to know where in Hebrews you find that it says that the promised rest is a rest from being bound to the seventh-day Sabbath. If you are using inductive reasoning to form your conclusion, please share your thinking process here.

You know, though, Victor, I don't know why you seem to consider the Sabbath as so awful and so burdensome, such a day of bondage. The day is really all about a relationship with God, a time to cease our daily activities and remember that "I, God, Am in control, so, My children, you can stop worrying now." Why would that be something to fight so earnestly against, as you seem to be doing?

Isn't it evident that the sabbath didn't provide God's "My rest" that we have entered into, and was called another day?

Actually, the way I understand it is that the words "another day" refer to the word "today" not to some new era that has no 7th-day Sabbath in it. Because of disobedience, the Israelites were unable to enter the rest that the Sabbath day portrays. Their day had passed. "For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day." And what is this "another day"? It is "today." "Today, if you will hear His voice, do not harden your hearts." Another chance is being given to enter God's rest, of which the 7th day Sabbath is symbolic.

So, for me, this has nothing to do with getting rid of the weekly Sabbath. Why? Because the text continues immediately with "There remains therefore a rest for the people of God." Sabbath rest has not been done away with. It remains.

Hebrews 4
4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: "And God rested on the seventh day from all His works";
5 and again in this place: "They shall not enter My rest."
6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience,
7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, "Today," after such a long time, as it has been said: "Today, if you will hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts."
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.
10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.

The origin of God's rest is identified by a quote out of Genesis 2:2, thousands of years before the sabbath was ordained.

To me, the Sabbath appears to have been ordained in Genesis 2:3, "And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made." By blessing and sanctifying the seventh day, God ordained it as holy, for that is what I think that "blessed" and "sanctified" means -- ordained.

God's rest was permanent, and it is His rest that we have entered into. This is the sabbatismos rest mentioned in Hebrews 4:9.

I agree, but I see it as a two-fold meaning. The seventh-day Sabbath is given as a reminder that we are to enter God's rest ...rest from our own works. And this is a rest from work already done. Our work of overcoming sin has already been completed. So, come on in! Relax and accept the victory! What better way to keep that remembrance fresh in our minds than to weekly Remember?

Not the sabbath. The sabbath repeated every week, was never permanent, and the periodic sabbaton is never mentioned in this text.

I don't know about how permanent the weekly Sabbath will be in eternity -- that's another study -- but as long as the heavens and the earth exist as they are now, "not one jot or one tittle will pass from the law," and, to me, that law contains the request that we remember the Sabbath. So, my position is that it is not yet time -- if there ever comes such a time -- to forget the Sabbath day that was ordained from the beginning of creation.

We have entered into a permanent rest the sabbath was a mere shadow of.

On what basis should we conclude that the Sabbath of the 10 commandments, written by the finger of God, is part of the shadow Sabbaths described in the ceremonial laws? A distinction would be required here, I think.

 

[Laodicean]

Oh My! Your salvation is requisite on your obedience to the first covenant that God delivered us from (Romans 7:6-7)?

keep in mind, though, that we are viewing "covenant" through two different filters. Your filter says that "covenant" means the 10 commandments. My filter says that "covenant" means a promise to keep the 10 commandments.

So, with those differing definitions in mind, then, yes, you can say that my salvation is requisite on my obedience to the "first" covenant, the one given in Genesis, which is God's promise to keep the commandments in me.

On the other hand, I do not think that I will ever obtain salvation if I obey the old covenant, which, through my filter, is a promise at Sinai that quickly grew old -- a promise to keep the commandments in one's own strength.

Bcause it was lost sight of over time, the first covenant had to be brought back to the attention of the Israelites as "a new (or renewed) covenant.

But then, that is just one way to view it. Take it or leave it.

The one God concluded all disobedient to (Romans 11:32)? I fixed that opinion in your post that God requests us to keep the sabbath He took away, as it is impossible to reconcile with Scripture.

How is one to view this assertion as anything less than denial of Christ's redemption and a rejection to enter into His rest that the sabbath never provided?

well, since I have not denied Christ's redemption and/or rejected entering into His rest, I don't think you should view my position as an assertion that have done just that. It would be nice if you would accept my word for it, that I do accept Christ's redemption and have chosen to enter into His rest.

 

[Laodicean]

Among the ones who post here most often, only a couple of us are former SDAs. Folks such as Stormy, Aza and Avonia are SDAs. Victor was never a member of the SDA denomination. I've never seen any of us who are former SDAs urge urrent SDAs to leave the SDA denomination. Perhaps this is merely an issue of perception?

BTW, "ex-SDA" is such a combative term. I was not disfellowshipped. I left quietly, calmly and respectfully through my own decision.

BFA, if you don't like the term ex-SDA, I won't use it. It wasn't my intention to be combative. Is "former SDA" better?

Is it safe to say that your reason for existence is wrapped up in your doctrinal beliefs? What happens if your doctrinal beliefs change? Will your reason for existence change or disappear?

That's a good question. I have actually thought about this at times, and, yes, if my basic doctrinal beliefs were to change to where I no longer believed in God's existence, my reason for existence would change and disappear. I'd probably eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die....well, I'd try to be as merry as it is possible to be when life has no meaning or hope for a future beyond our few futile years on this earth.

 

[Laodicean]

Yeah, I would agree with Victor that 14 Nisan in 31 A.D. was a Gregorian Wed. At least that's what the tables I've look at show. William Miller knew this but needed the 31 A.D. Passover to be the date for the cross. He had to move the Sabbath so that it would sync with the Gospel accounts & a Gregorian Fri, Sat, Sun.

Would moving the date of the cross by three days have made a difference in Miller's calculations? Probably not, since he had given himself approximately a year, give or take, for his calculations to be correct.

Of course, this is a subject I have not thought about for a long time now. I might be wrong on this.

Jesus died on the 6th day of the week ( the day of prep ) followed by a seventh day Sabbath and subsequently rose from the dead on the 1st day of the week.

Well, ask Victor if this is what he is proposing. I don't think he is saying that Jesus died on the 6th day of the week. I think he is saying that Jesus died on Wednesday, in the middle of the week. I could be wrong. Victor?

Everyone at Miller's time knew there was not a fri, sat, sun Passover in 31 A.D. and that's why Miller adopted an ancient Karite Calendar, because every Passover, every year falls on a Sabbath.

Okay, this is stuff I have not studied in some time. It would make an interesting thread