Why I am no Longer a Calvinist

[JustAsIam77]

I for one am most happy to see GrinningDwarf posting here again.

Apologies for distracting from the OP.

 

[twin1954]

It's only by God overpowering our total depravity with his grace that we are finally given the ability to do good. Hence grace would then have to be irresistible (I), otherwise we would choose sin over God since our own propensity is to do only evil (the thoughts of men are ONLY evil from their youth).

Only a small clarification if I might. God doesn't overpower our total depravity, it is still with us. He totally makes us a new creation. The old man is alive and strong in this body of death called the flesh but all believers are made new creatures in Christ and we war daily with that old depraved nature that constantly battles for dominion.

 

[bsd058]

Only a small clarification if I might. God doesn't overpower our total depravity, it is still with us. He totally makes us a new creation. The old man is alive and strong in this body of death called the flesh but all believers are made new creatures in Christ and we war daily with that old depraved nature that constantly battles for dominion.

Thank you.

 

[cygnusx1]

I for one am most happy to see GrinningDwarf posting here again.

Apologies for distracting from the OP.

it's great to see old friends

 

[ALoveDivine]

Well I must say you all have made very excellent arguments for the five points. I see the logical structure and I see the biblical evidence. There are of course some verses in scripture I have a hard time wrapping my mind around in relation to this subject, but I will admit that you all have made a very persuasive argument.

Perhaps I jumped the gun too quickly. I just ran across and contemplated some verses that made me reconsider the U and the L mainly. But your arguments are solid and I may have to humbly admit that I made a mistake in too hastily jumping to conclusions.

I also had a couple friends die recently, both unbelievers, and it sort of hurts to think that they never even had a chance to be saved. So that emotional aspect probably had something to do with it too.

Thanks for being gracious and responding to my concerns with logic and scripture, I do appreciate it. I've never held to the whole of reformed theology (infant baptism, amillenialism, etc) but I did hold to the five points for a long time. At this point I think I must prayerfully reconsider my objections in light of scripture. Thank you all for your help.

 

[Keachian]

I and the rest of the Reformed Baptists don't agree with infant baptism so I'm pretty confident that it isn't the normative Reformed position.

 

[bsd058]

Well I must say you all have made very excellent arguments for the five points. I see the logical structure and I see the biblical evidence. There are of course some verses in scripture I have a hard time wrapping my mind around in relation to this subject, but I will admit that you all have made a very persuasive argument.

Perhaps I jumped the gun too quickly. I just ran across and contemplated some verses that made me reconsider the U and the L mainly. But your arguments are solid and I may have to humbly admit that I made a mistake in too hastily jumping to conclusions.

I also had a couple friends die recently, both unbelievers, and it sort of hurts to think that they never even had a chance to be saved. So that emotional aspect probably had something to do with it too.

Thanks for being gracious and responding to my concerns with logic and scripture, I do appreciate it. I've never held to the whole of reformed theology (infant baptism, amillenialism, etc) but I did hold to the five points for a long time. At this point I think I must prayerfully reconsider my objections in light of scripture. Thank you all for your help.

I want to say I'm impressed with this response. It's not too often people are persuaded by logic and Scripture, and I'm glad that you submit to both and are humble. Thank you for taking the time to understand and search the Scriptures.

It takes maturity to admit that you're wrong or that you could be wrong.

If any of us can be of further assistance, please do not hesitate to post!

 

[GrinningDwarf]

I want to say I'm impressed with this response. It's not too often people are persuaded by logic and Scripture, and I'm glad that you submit to both and are humble. Thank you for taking the time to understand and search the Scriptures.

It takes maturity to admit that you're wrong or that you could be wrong.

If any of us can be of further assistance, please do not hesitate to post!

Amen! Yeah...what he said!

 

[dogs4thewin]

I agree with T after that I do not agree. I believe that God shows Himself and that we must choose to accept the gift (though He has chosen to reveal Himself to us through creation and life events. Atonement, therefore is something that we get put on our "account" by accepting it. Grace while no one deserves it can be resisted I know this based on two things one we do not always follow God's will for our lives and two I have personally resisted that gift. As for P I believe that while God does not leave us we are free to leave our salvation by directly with words or indirectly by repeated actions recant. As a gift, just as in law ( man's law) He can not and will not revoke it, but we can take it back and withdraw ourselves.

 

[GrinningDwarf]

I agree with T after that I do not agree. I believe that God shows Himself and that we must choose to accept the gift (though He has chosen to reveal Himself to us through creation and life events. Atonement, therefore is something that we get put on our "account" by accepting it. Grace while no one deserves it can be resisted I know this based on two things one we do not always follow God's will for our lives and two I have personally resisted that gift. As for P I believe that while God does not leave us we are free to leave our salvation by directly with words or indirectly by repeated actions recant. As a gift, just as in law ( man's law) Her can not and will not revoke it, but we can take it back and withdraw ourselves.

Then your 'T' is not really 'T' (or 'total')...and you get the rest wrong, too. That's what happens when we screw up the first one.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Then your 'T' is not really 'T' (or 'total')...and you get the rest wrong, too. That's what happens when we screw up the first one.

How can the T not be total?

 

[ForHisGlory60]

I agree with T after that I do not agree. I believe that God shows Himself and that we must choose to accept the gift (though He has chosen to reveal Himself to us through creation and life events. Atonement, therefore is something that we get put on our "account" by accepting it. Grace while no one deserves it can be resisted I know this based on two things one we do not always follow God's will for our lives and two I have personally resisted that gift. As for P I believe that while God does not leave us we are free to leave our salvation by directly with words or indirectly by repeated actions recant. As a gift, just as in law ( man's law) Her can not and will not revoke it, but we can take it back and withdraw ourselves.

Man may be able to resist Grace for a time, but ultimately God wins that contest, every time. If He allows you to resist for a time, it is to teach you something so that you will be strengthened when His Grace overcomes your resistance (which it will). In my own case, whatever resistance I had crumbled when He confronted me. God will use your own stubbornness to teach you and strengthen you, thereby turning your feeble resistance into something strong and powerful for His use.

The TULIP stands or falls on the T. It is the hinge the entire gate swings on.

 

[GrinningDwarf]

How can the T not be total?

You said "I believe that God shows Himself and that we must choose...".

Okay...maybe I spoke hastily and am not being fair.

In your opinion, do we choose before God regenerates our heart? God lays it all out in front of us, and then we have the freedom to choose or reject before God actually changes our heart? In fact, our changed heart is a result of making the right choice. Is that how you see it?

 

[AMR]

I am not a Calvinist any longer..

You never were. There is no such thing as a genuine former Calvinist. Plenty of former confused folks, however.

AMR

 

[dogs4thewin]

Man may be able to resist Grace for a time, but ultimately God wins that contest, every time. If He allows you to resist for a time, it is to teach you something so that you will be strengthened when His Grace overcomes your resistance (which it will). In my own case, whatever resistance I had crumbled when He confronted me. God will use your own stubbornness to teach you and strengthen you, thereby turning your feeble resistance into something strong and powerful for His use.

The TULIP stands or falls on the T. It is the hinge the entire gate swings on.

You can still resist trust me I know I keep wanting Hell. Even though I know Christ died so I could be with Him and believe that. GD I believe that God makes it to where every knows there would HAVE to be something more with all of creation the way it is, but we choose rather to believe and accept that, or at the very least choose to believe and accept that it was He who did it all. The same is true of certain life events, there bare times when if a non-believer were being honest they would admit that it was God. For example, an awful car wreck, yet they are so stubborn that they will not admit it.

 

[GrinningDwarf]

...GD I believe that God makes it to where every knows there would HAVE to be something more with all of creation the way it is, but we choose rather to believe and accept that, or at the very least choose to believe and accept that it was He who did it all. The same is true of certain life events, there bare times when if a non-believer were being honest they would admit that it was God. For example, an awful car wreck, yet they are so stubborn that they will not admit it.

OK...suppose two people are involved in this awful car wreck you mentioned. They both see God's hand at work in neither of them being injured. One trusts in the Lord for salvation; the other does not. Why? Was the person who chose God smarter than the other one? More righteous? More grateful? Luckier? (Hint: I think the Scriptures are pretty clear on 'why'.)

 

[dogs4thewin]

OK...suppose two people are involved in this awful car wreck you mentioned. They both see God's hand at work in neither of them being injured. One trusts in the Lord for salvation; the other does not. Why? Was the person who chose God smarter than the other one? More righteous? More grateful? Luckier? (Hint: I think the Scriptures are pretty clear on 'why'.)

no not smarter but just seeing the grace and believing. No one has answered me as to IF Calvinism is true why it is that I would knowing and believing in that gift and having accepted it I would want Hell on and off for years ( even while still believing in Christ's gift and even while still sharing that gift with OTHERS and yet not wanting it for my own sins.

 

[GrinningDwarf]

no not smarter but just seeing the grace and believing.

But if salvation is ultimately based upon whether a person accepts or not, what is there in the person that accepts that is not in the other?

The Scriptures tell us that "The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned." (1 Cor. 2:14.) So...according to the Scriptures...one person accepts the things of God because God has already done something with their spirit. He has made it alive. He has taken the heart of stone and exchanged it for a heart of flesh. The other does not because he/she still has his/her old, dead spirit.

Think about this...if you are a Christian, it is because God chose you. It's not because He kinda tossed the Gospel out there and rolled the dice, hoping you (and the billions of others in the world) would accept. He...chose...you. Dwell on that.

How do you know if you're chosen? Have you responded to the Gospel? Is your only hope in Christ? If so, and you persevere to the end, that is proof enough.

No one has answered me as to IF Calvinism is true why it is that I would knowing and believing in that gift and having accepted it I would want Hell on and off for years ( even while still believing in Christ's gift and even while still sharing that gift with OTHERS and yet not wanting it for my own sins.

Nobody said this life was gonna be a smooth ride. That's why The Four Spiritual Laws are a 'gimmick'. But I do have a question. Why would you want hell?

 

[ForHisGlory60]

You can still resist trust me I know I keep wanting Hell. Even though I know Christ died so I could be with Him and believe that. GD I believe that God makes it to where every knows there would HAVE to be something more with all of creation the way it is, but we choose rather to believe and accept that, or at the very least choose to believe and accept that it was He who did it all. The same is true of certain life events, there bare times when if a non-believer were being honest they would admit that it was God. For example, an awful car wreck, yet they are so stubborn that they will not admit it.

I'm not sure you really comprehended what I was saying. Be that as it may, it sounds to me more like you're trying to create or find a theology that demands less from you, rather than looking to Jesus and allowing Him to work in you that which He wills. To coin a phrase, "resistance is futile". If you have trusted Him as your Savior, trust Him with your life, and quit worrying about the random stuff. You are not responsible for every bird that flies overhead, only the ones that land in your hair. In similar fashion, the enemy will fly thoughts by you to discourage you, to tempt you, and to cause you to doubt. You only have to do something about the ones you let into your mind and start to think about. That's where the biblical idea of bringing every thought into captivity to Christ comes in. Compare those thoughts against the Word, and if they don't line up, toss 'em! Changing your mind is a decision, not an emotion.

 

[GrinningDwarf]

ALLorNOTHINGatall4CHRIST,I just saw this quote from a pastor on Facebook that I think we could use here:

If God's grace were not irresistible, I would never have surrendered. But the more I struggled, the tighter it gripped me.