why humans are not primates

Warden_of_the_Storm · Nov 18, 2015

Doveaman said:
All primates, including apes, have prehensile feet.

Humans do not.

This is what separates humans from primates.

But we do have prehensile toes. We can move our toes when we want them to and we can use them to grasp things. Not to the same extent as monkeys and the other great apes, but we do have prehensile toes.

Doveaman · Nov 18, 2015

Warden_of_the_Storm said:
But we do have prehensile toes. We can move our toes when we want them to and we can use them to grasp things. Not to the same extent as monkeys and the other great apes, but we do have prehensile toes.

A prehensile toe is not a prehensile foot.

This is a prehensile foot on the right compared to the human foot on the left:

Warden_of_the_Storm · Nov 18, 2015

Doveaman said:
A prehensile toe is not a prehensile foot.

This is a prehensile foot on the right:

But the fact that we have prehensile toes directly shows that we descended from being with prehensile feet. AKA apes.

crjmurray · Nov 18, 2015

Doveaman said:
A prehensile toe is not a prehensile foot.

This is a prehensile foot on the right compared to the human foot on the left:

Wait wait wait.....so your feet don't look like the one on the right?

Doveaman · Nov 18, 2015

Warden_of_the_Storm said:
But the fact that we have prehensile toes directly shows that we descended from being with prehensile feet. AKA apes.

The prehensile toes of an ape include an opposable big toe.

Humans do not have the prehensile toes of an ape which includes an opposable big toe.

It's a completely different foot.

Warden_of_the_Storm · Nov 18, 2015

Doveaman said:
The prehensile toes of an ape include an opposable big toe.

Humans do not have the prehensile toes of an ape which includes an opposable big toe.

It's a completely different foot.

Yet the rest of our toes are very capable of being prehensile.

Paul of Eugene OR · Nov 19, 2015

Doveaman said:
All primates, including apes, have prehensile feet.

Humans do not.

This is what separates humans from primates.

Nevertheless, it is clear that the shape of the human foot is closely related to the shape of the other primate feet. All species will have something different from other species in the larger group, or else they wouldn't be a separate species. So this argument against we humans being primates isn't valid.

Paul of Eugene OR · Nov 19, 2015

Doveaman said:
The prehensile toes of an ape include an opposable big toe.

Humans do not have the prehensile toes of an ape which includes an opposable big toe.

It's a completely different foot.

But it is a very great favor you have done in stressing the structure of the foot, because the feet of humans clearly have vestigial digits. We simply have NO USE AT ALL for any of the toes except the great toe. This is easily explained by evolution; when we started the upright biped way of life, the toes were no longer needed, and they degenerated into the vestigial digits we see today. There is no reason to have them from a creationist point of view.

Frenzy · Nov 19, 2015

What creationists can not or will not understand is 'Time'.

If a 1000 foot mountain loses an inch every year through erosion in 12,000 years the mountain is gone.

crjmurray · Nov 19, 2015

Frenzy said:
What creationists can not or will not understand is 'Time'.

If a 1000 foot mountain loses an inch every year through erosion in 12,000 years the mountain is gone.

God wouldn't allow that

Herman Hedning · Nov 19, 2015

Doveaman said:
Which one of these feet is not like the others?

Primates have prehensile (grasping) feet with opposable big toes.

Humans do not.

A perfect example of evolution. When the animal moves out of the trees and start walking around on the ground, the prehensile toe of the foot moves to the front and becomes less moveable. As can indeed be seen in this picture where it happens gradually from left to right.

Frenzy · Nov 19, 2015

crjmurray said:
God wouldn't allow that

Which God wouldn't allow that?

Doveaman · Nov 19, 2015

crjmurray said:
Wait wait wait.....so your feet don't look like the one on the right?

NO.

My hands look like the one on the right.

Doveaman · Nov 19, 2015

Warden_of_the_Storm said:
Yet the rest of our toes are very capable of being prehensile.

Primates and human toes are not the only toes that can grasp. Bird toes can grasp.

Does this mean birds descended from primates?

We are not just talking about toes. We are talking about the entire foot that makes the difference. Humans do not have prehensile feet like primates do.

All primates having prehensile feet indicate that all primates descended from a common ancestor. This does not include humans.

Jimmy D · Nov 19, 2015

Doveaman said:
Primates and human toes are not the only toes that can grasp. Bird toes can grasp.

Does this mean birds descended from primates?

We are not just talking about toes. We are talking about the entire foot that makes the difference. Humans do not have prehensile feet like primates do.

All primates having prehensile feet indicate that all primates descended from a common ancestor. This does not include humans.

Mmm, I might need to rethink my penguin hypothesis after this insightful post.

Sine Nomine · Nov 19, 2015

: D said:
reasons humans are not primates -

bones - thinner lighter than all other primates
skulls/brains - impossible to compare to other primates
head hair - constant growth unlike all other primates
nails- constant growth unlike all other primates
skin - not adapted to sunlight exposure like all other primates
muscles - 5 to 10 times weaker for relative size compared to all other primates
adipose tissue - 10 times more body fat than all other primates
locomotion - human locomotion different than all other primates
speech 1 -throats completely different than all other primates
speech 2 -brain construction different than all other primates
penis bone - missing unlike all other primates
genetic disorders- 4000 not in primates
chromosomes - 46 compared to the primate 48

of course the argument that someone made a wrong classification in the 18th century so we should just continue to run with it will be made,
and the scoffers will insult and arm wave,
some may even believe personal insults are called for,

however this post is not for the scoffers,
it is for the enquiring mind that follows truth wherever it may lead.

: )

Apples are not oranges, yet both are fruits, grow on a woody deciduous plant, have seeds, a protective outer skin, seeds, and a stem.

You would be correct to say that a chimp is not a human, yet both have large brains, stereoscopic vision, opposable thumbs, high intelligence, nails on their fingers/toes. Classifying them together as Primates is appropriate--that humans are not primates is incorrect.

: D · Nov 19, 2015

crjmurray said:
This is fantastic

in this day and age I don't know if you are kicking me in the nuts or patting me on the back,

but I will say thanks anyway,

: )

Warden_of_the_Storm · Nov 19, 2015

Doveaman said:
Primates and human toes are not the only toes that can grasp. Bird toes can grasp.

Does this mean birds descended from primates?

We are not just talking about toes. We are talking about the entire foot that makes the difference. Humans do not have prehensile feet like primates do.

All primates having prehensile feet indicate that all primates descended from a common ancestor. This does not include humans.

Yet if you look at the skeletal structure of a human foot, you will see it is descended from a being with the similar foot structure to a chimpanzee.

Follow this link and you can see that they discuss how, while human feet are different than a chimp's feet, they are related.
Specifically look at the photos of the human climbing a tree barefoot compared to a chimp climbing a tree. You will see that they both do the same thing: they use their toes to grasp the tree.

Larniavc · Nov 19, 2015

Jimmy D said:
I'm working on a list of why Penguins aren't birds. I'll keep you posted.

My wife once fell for an April fool's gag where the BBC had an article about flying penguins.

: D · Nov 19, 2015

Sine Nomine said:
Apples are not oranges, yet both are fruits, grow on a woody deciduous plant, have seeds, a protective outer skin, seeds, and a stem.

You would be correct to say that a chimp is not a human, yet both have large brains, stereoscopic vision, opposable thumbs, high intelligence, nails on their fingers/toes. Classifying them together as Primates is appropriate--that humans are not primates is incorrect.

you mentioned nails and hair,
in your opinion why is the constant growth of both not consistent throughout the "family" ?
(only humans have this trait compared to the great apes)

stereoscopic vision is very common across the board and not isolated to great apes and man.
the chimp brain is a third smaller than mans, hardly a comparison.
define "thumb", lizards and birds have grasping abilities.
intelligence is subjective, are we measuring speech abilities (man stands alone),problem solving and learning (slime can navigate a maze and remember the course) etc.

: )

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