Why Historians Date the Revelation to the Reign of Domitian

[Rev20]

Paul was writing during the last days of the Old Covenant age. To establish the context of this verse we look back a few verses to Rom. 11:1-6 where he explained the salvation of the remnant during this terminal generation.

During this time the gospel was going out to the Gentiles in fulfillment of prophecy.

Paul earlier indicated the fulfillment of Hosea concerning the Gentiles:

As He says also in Hosea, "I WILL CALL THOSE WHO WERE NOT MY PEOPLE, 'MY PEOPLE,' AND HER WHO WAS NOT BELOVED, 'BELOVED.'" "AND IT SHALL BE THAT IN THE PLACE WHERE IT WAS SAID TO THEM, 'YOU ARE NOT MY PEOPLE,' THERE THEY SHALL BE CALLED SONS OF THE LIVING GOD." (Romans‬ 9‬:25-276 NASB)

The word "fullness" in Rom. 11:25 is the idea of "fulfillment." That generation witnessed the fulfillment of the prophecies concerning the calling of the Gentiles.

Again, we must remember when Paul was writing. It was just prior to the end of the Jewish age. From his perspective natural Israel was the "beloved" until the end. While making her jealous God was in the process of calling the remnant and the Gentiles together into one body.

Again, if we go back to Romans 9 he quoted Isaiah: "Isaiah cries out concerning Israel, "THOUGH THE NUMBER OF THE SONS OF ISRAEL BE LIKE THE SAND OF THE SEA, IT IS THE REMNANT THAT WILL BE SAVED; FOR THE LORD WILL EXECUTE HIS WORD ON THE EARTH, THOROUGHLY AND QUICKLY." (Romans‬ 9‬:27-28‬ NASB)

God was saving the remnant of Israel and the Gentiles in the last days. By the time the age ended in AD 70 "all Israel" (true Israel) would be saved from His wrath.

Nice post. I may have one minor disagreement regarding Paul and natural Israel as the beloved. Is your statement implying that from the Lord's perspective Israel was the beloved until the end, or simply from Paul's perspective?


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[OneAccordRM]

Nice post. I have one minor disagreement regarding Paul and natural Israel as the beloved. Is your statement implying that from the Lord's perspective Israel was the beloved until the end, or simply from Paul's perspective?


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Are you saying God doesnt love the Jews?

 

[Rev20]

Sorry I am having a senior moment, but what is "2P2P"?


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I think it means 2 Peoples/2 Programs, and is referring to dual covenant theology. There is a thread here:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7826294/


.

 

[Bible2]

OneAccordRM said in post 532:

Rom 11:25 For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery--so that you will not be wise in your own estimation--that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

In Romans 11:25, the Gentiles are genetic Gentiles, the people addressed throughout Romans 11:13-31, who aren't genetic Jews like Paul the apostle (Romans 11:1,14). Both individual genetic Jewish believers (natural branches) and individual genetic Gentile believers (engrafted wild branches) are branches in the good olive tree of Israel (Romans 11:17,24). For when Gentiles become believers they "come in" (Romans 11:25) to be part of Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29). The fruit of each individual branch would be the good works of each individual (Colossians 1:10). It is the genetic Jews who are "blind in part", meaning that some (in the sense of not all) of them are spiritually blind while others aren't (Romans 11:7-10). For "blindness in part is happened to Israel" (Romans 11:25) in its genetic sense (Romans 11:1,14), that is, genetic Jews (Acts 22:3). Also, in Romans 11:25-26, "Israel" includes elect genetic Jews who aren't yet believers (Romans 11:28), but who will become believers eventually (Romans 11:26).

When Paul says "until the fulness (pleroma) of the Gentiles be come in" (Romans 11:25), he means until a full number of genetic Gentile individuals have become saved, which won't happen until near the end of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, right before Jesus' 2nd coming (Romans 11:26), immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-30), just as Luke 21:24 shows that "the times of the Gentiles" won't be "fulfilled (pleroo)" until the completion of the treading down of Jerusalem during the future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign of the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") (Revelation 11:2b, Revelation 13:5-18), during the 2nd half of the tribulation.

Immediately after the tribulation, at Jesus' 2nd coming (Matthew 24:29-30), all the still-living, unsaved, elect genetic Jews will become saved (Romans 11:26-28) by God's grace when they see the returned Jesus in person and believe in him (Zechariah 12:10-14). And so they will all become part of the church at that time, just as when genetic Jews believe in Jesus now they become part of the church. For now there are no believers outside of the church (Ephesians 4:4-6).

And the genetic Jews who will become believers at the 2nd coming will all become part of the church by receiving some measure of the Holy Spirit, who is "the spirit of grace and of supplications" in Zechariah 12:10 (Hebrews 10:29c, Romans 8:26), just as genetic Jewish believers today become part of the church by receiving some measure of the Holy Spirit. For it is by receiving some measure of the Holy Spirit that both genetic Jewish believers and genetic Gentile believers become part of the church (1 Corinthians 12:13).

Also, if the genetic Jews who will become saved at the 2nd coming had been religious Jews, they won't continue to mistakenly try to keep the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, because they will then be believers in the truth that on Jesus' Cross, for both Jews and Gentiles (John 11:51-52), of all times, the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law was abolished (Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18), disannulled (Hebrews 7:18), rendered obsolete (Hebrews 8:13, Galatians 3:2-25, Galatians 4:21 to 5:8), taken away and replaced (Hebrews 10:9) by the better hope (Hebrews 7:19), the better covenant (Hebrews 7:22, Hebrews 8:6-12), the 2nd covenant (Hebrews 8:7, Hebrews 10:9), of Jesus' New Covenant law (Galatians 6:2, John 1:17, Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 12:24, Hebrews 9:15), so that the law was changed (Hebrews 7:12).

All believers, both Jews and Gentles, of all times, are delivered from the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, and shouldn't keep it (Romans 7:6; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18, Galatians 2:11-21), or have any desire to keep it (Galatians 4:21 to 5:8, Galatians 3:2-25). Believers keep the spirit of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Romans 7:6) by loving others (Galatians 5:14, Romans 13:8-10), by doing to others as they would have others do to them (Matthew 7:12).

OneAccordRM said in post 532:

Rom 11:28 From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God's choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers;

Romans 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

Romans 11:28 is referring to the fact that some unbelievers are the genetic descendants of Abraham (John 8:37, Acts 13:26, Romans 11:1, Acts 7:2, Acts 3:25). And some of these unbelievers are elect, and are beloved in part because of their genetic descent (Romans 11:28-29). But they are only a remnant of all genetic Israelites (Romans 9:27), most of whom will never be saved, just as most of humanity in general, both Jews and Gentiles, will never be saved (Matthew 7:14, Matthew 22:14).

 

[Bible2]

A New World said in post 537:

Paul was writing during the last days of the Old Covenant age.

Note that the time of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law ended not at the destruction of the 2nd temple in 70 AD, but decades earlier, at the moment that Jesus died on the Cross (Matthew 27:50-51a), and abolished the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17, Romans 7:6; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18, Hebrews 7:18-19), which was the same moment that he brought the New Covenant into effect (Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 9:15-17, Hebrews 10:19-20, Matthew 27:51a). So there was no transition period, no overlap at all (Hebrews 10:9b, Hebrews 7:12), between the time of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law and the time of the New Covenant.

Also, while the apostles asked Jesus about the end of the age (Matthew 24:3), he didn't tell them that the end of the age would occur at the destruction of the 2nd temple, or (as is sometimes claimed) before the future tribulation, or even at the end of the future tribulation, i.e. at his (post-tribulation) 2nd coming (Matthew 24:29-31), or when the end of the age would occur, just as Jesus didn't tell the apostles many other things during his ministry (John 16:12). It wouldn't be until much later that Jesus would show the apostle John, through the vision in the book of Revelation (given about 95 AD: Irenaeus, Against Heresies 5:30:3c), that the end of the age, when all the unsaved will be cast into the lake of fire (Matthew 13:40, Matthew 25:41, Revelation 20:15), won't occur until over 1,000 years after Jesus' (never fulfilled) 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:15).

 

[Rev20]

Are you saying God doesnt love the Jews?

I am sure he wants all to come to repentance.

What about you? Are you praying that all Jews will come to repentance before the rapture so that none will be killed by the Antichrist?
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[A New World]

Can you show me at what point the old covenant became of no effect?

It's difficult to show the exact point at which it became of no effect but there are some clues. According to Hebrews 8:13 the Old Covenant was "becoming obsolete and growing old" and was "ready to vanish away." The word "ready" expresses imminence therefore it was about to vanish away but had not at the time the book was written.

"In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away." (Hebrews‬ 8‬:13‬ NKJV)

Many ascribe the authorship of the book to Paul. Most date it sometime prior to the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70. Since Paul was killed circa AD 67 it was probably written in the AD 60's or shortly before.

In your opinion, do you think the fulness of the Gentiles has to do with the times of the Gentiles?

Luk 21:24 and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

Joh 10:16 "I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd.

Yes I do believe the fulness of the Gentiles has to do with the times of the Gentiles. I believe the "other sheep" heard the gospel and were brought into the fold prior to the end of the age. This was prophesied (Mt. 24:3,14,34) and fulfilled (Rom. 1:8; 16:25,26; Col. 1:5,6,23).

The destruction/desolation of Jerusalem in that generation was key to the fulfillment of prophecy: "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled." (Luke‬ 21‬:20-22‬ NKJV)

Can you show me where the age ended in 70ad in scripture?

Based on the overwhelming scriptural evidence I can arrive at no other conclusion than the passing away of the Jewish/Mosaic/Old Covenant age in AD 70.

If you disagree, can you show me at what point the Old Covenant became of no effect according to Scripture?

 

[A New World]

Nice post. I may have one minor disagreement regarding Paul and natural Israel as the beloved. Is your statement implying that from the Lord's perspective Israel was the beloved until the end, or simply from Paul's perspective?


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I'm not exactly sure if I understand your question.

I believe there was a transition period from about AD 30-AD 70. During that period God was fulfilling His promises made to natural Israel through her prophets. So, in that sense, she was still His beloved right up to the end (Rom. 11:28).

I hope that answers your question.

 

[OneAccordRM]

I am sure he wants all to come to repentance.

I would hope so, it is written.

2Pe_3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.


I pray that people come to know Christ, to know salvation, to spread the Gospel at all costs.

 

[OneAccordRM]

It's difficult to show the exact point at which it became of no effect but there are some clues. According to Hebrews 8:13 the Old Covenant was "becoming obsolete and growing old" and was "ready to vanish away."

Its difficult to show because its not in scripture, I believe its not in scripture for a reason.

The Bible also teaches that Christ is coming quickly, and that was 2000 years ago.

Rev_22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

The only thing I can come up with is that the equivalent 2 days have passed in heaven during the last 2000 years on earth.

2Pe_3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

If a thousand years on earth is one day in Heaven, then the context of how soon these things would be fulfilled is changed.

We are also told not to be ignorant of this teaching.

Yes I do believe the fulness of the Gentiles has to do with the times of the Gentiles. I believe the "other sheep" heard the gospel and were brought into the fold prior to the end of the age. This was prophesied (Mt. 24:3,14,34) and fulfilled (Rom. 1:8; 16:25,26; Col. 1:5,6,23).

Im not sure if I follow, are you saying the fulness of the gentiles came in 70ad??

The destruction/desolation of Jerusalem in that generation was key to the fulfillment of prophecy:
If you disagree, can you show me at what point the Old Covenant became of no effect according to Scripture?

Jerusalem and the temple were destroyed in 70ad.

Thats the first prophecy given in the Olivet Discourse.

Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

 

[A New World]

Can you show me at what point the old covenant became of no effect?

Its difficult to show because its not in scripture, I believe its not in scripture for a reason.

While you're correct that Scripture doesn't specifically say, "The Old Covenant became of no effect..." on a given date, it certainly indicates that it was ready to vanish away at the time of the writing of Hebrews (Heb. 8:13). According to Scripture it was an imminent event.

The Bible also teaches that Christ is coming quickly, and that was 2000 years ago.

It teaches that the end of the age was imminent and I have no choice but to accept it as truth.

Jesus said the end would come after the gospel was preached in all the world (Mt. 24:14) within that generation (Mt. 24:34).

Peter, James, John and Paul continued to teach the end of the age as an imminent event (1 Pet. 4:7,17; Jam. 5:7-9; 1 John 2:18; 1 Cor. 10:11).

The only thing I can come up with is that the equivalent 2 days have passed in heaven during the last 2000 years on earth.

2Pe_3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

If a thousand years on earth is one day in Heaven, then the context of how soon these things would be fulfilled is changed.

We are also told not to be ignorant of this teaching.

It's true that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day but Peter wasn't writing to the Lord in his epistles. He told his human audience, the pilgrims of the Dispersion (1 Pet. 1:1), that the end of all things was near (1 Pet. 4:7) and because of that truth they were to "be serious and watchful" in their prayers.

Im not sure if I follow, are you saying the fulness of the gentiles came in 70ad??

According to Scripture, yes. Again, notice when Luke said all that was written would be fulfilled:

"But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled." (Luke‬ 21‬:20-22‬ NKJV)

Jerusalem and the temple were destroyed in 70ad.

Thats the first prophecy given in the Olivet Discourse.

Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Notice that Jesus also told His audience when "all these things" would occur:

"Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place." (Matthew‬ 24‬:34‬ NKJV)

 

[Bible2]

A New World said in post 547:

According to Hebrews 8:13 the Old Covenant was "becoming obsolete and growing old" and was "ready to vanish away."

Hebrews 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Hebrews 8:13 means that when the prophet Jeremiah in the 6th century BC prophesied in Jeremiah 31:31-34 about the 1st century AD making of the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 9:15-17; 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6), which wouldn't be according to the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Jeremiah 31:32, Romans 7:6), Jeremiah's prophecy, as soon as it was made, had immediately made the letter of the Mosaic-law covenant "old" and headed inexorably toward a future extinction (Hebrews 7:18-19). This extinction occurred not in 70 AD, but decades earlier, at the moment that Jesus died on the Cross (Matthew 27:50-51a), and abolished the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17, Romans 7:6; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18, Hebrews 7:18-19), which was the same moment that he brought the New Covenant into effect (Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 9:15-17, Hebrews 10:19-20, Matthew 27:51a). So there was no transition period, no overlap at all (Hebrews 10:9b, Hebrews 7:12), between the time of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law and the time of the New Covenant.

A New World quoted in post 547:

"But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near . . .

Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

When Jesus says "ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies" (Luke 21:20), he is referring to the first part of Daniel 11:31: "And arms shall stand on his part". And when Jesus says "the desolation" in Luke 21:20, he is referring to the "abomination of desolation" part of Daniel 11:31, just as in Matthew 24:15, he is referring to the "abomination of desolation" part of Daniel 11:31.

So Luke 21:20-23 isn't referring to 70 AD, nor (as is sometimes claimed) to the pillaging of Jerusalem which will occur at the very end of the future tribulation, right before Jesus' 2nd coming to save Jerusalem (Zechariah 14), but is referring to what will happen mid-tribulation, when the Antichrist will antitypically fulfill Daniel 11:31 at the start of his future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18), during which 3.5 years, Jerusalem will be trodden down by the Gentiles (Revelation 11:2b), which future treading down is what Luke 21:24 is referring to.

Regarding the "abomination of desolation", Daniel 11:31 was typically fulfilled by the abomination of desolation in 1 Maccabees 1:54, which occurred in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the 2nd Jewish temple in Jerusalem in the time of Antiochus IV. But per Jesus' statement in Matthew 24:15, the church will see the abomination of desolation in Daniel 11:31 fulfilled (antitypically) in the future, when the church will see the abomination of desolation stand in the holy place (of a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem). This future abomination of desolation could be a standing, android image of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:15) which his followers ("they") will put in the holy place of the temple (Daniel 11:31) to be worshipped (Revelation 13:15), after they have stopped the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices which the ultra-Orthodox Jews will have restarted in front of the temple (Daniel 11:31). This image will pollute the holy place of the temple (Daniel 11:31).

The Antichrist will then fulfill Daniel 11:36 and 2 Thessalonians 2:4 by sitting himself (at least one time) in the temple and proclaiming himself God. By the power of Satan (the dragon, Revelation 12:9), the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") will then rule and be worshipped by all the nations of the earth for 3.5 literal years (Revelation 13:4-18), and will physically overcome Biblical Christians (not in hiding) in every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

Also, from the day on which (antitypically) "the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be 1,290 days. Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the 1,335 days" (Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation 16:15). Also, because the Antichrist will fulfill Daniel 11:31 antitypically (Matthew 24:15) and will fulfill Daniel 11:36 for the first (and only) time, then he will also fulfill all of Daniel 11:21-45 (the first part of it antitypically, and the rest for the first and only time) when he arises on the world stage, for that passage refers to the career of the same man. And since the Antichrist will fulfill all of Daniel 11:21-45 when he arises on the world stage, then just preceding his arising on the world stage, Daniel 11:13-19 could be fulfilled antitypically by an Iraqi Baathist General completely defeating and occupying Israel and Egypt with a huge Iraqi Army (Daniel 11:15-17; in verse 17 the original Hebrew word translated as "daughter" is "bath").

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A New World said in post 551:

Jesus said the end would come after the gospel was preached in all the world (Mt. 24:14) within that generation (Mt. 24:34).

The gospel will be preached to all nations during the future tribulation (Revelation 14:6). Also, Matthew 24:6,13,14 refers only to the end of the future tribulation of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 18. For while the apostles asked Jesus about the end of the age (Matthew 24:3), he didn't tell them that the end of the age would occur at the destruction of the 2nd temple, or (as is sometimes claimed) before the future tribulation, or even at the end of the future tribulation, i.e. at his (post-tribulation) 2nd coming (Matthew 24:29-31), or when the end of the age would occur, just as Jesus didn't tell the apostles many other things during his ministry (John 16:12). It wouldn't be until much later that Jesus would show the apostle John, through the vision in the book of Revelation (given about 95 AD: Irenaeus, Against Heresies 5:30:3c), that the end of the age, when all the unsaved will be cast into the lake of fire (Matthew 13:40, Matthew 25:41, Revelation 20:15), won't occur until over 1,000 years after Jesus' (never fulfilled) 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:15).

A New World said in post 551:

Jesus said the end would come after the gospel was preached in all the world (Mt. 24:14) within that generation (Mt. 24:34).

Note that Matthew 24:34 refers to the fulfillment of "all these things", meaning all the events of the tribulation, and Jesus' 2nd coming and the gathering together (rapture) of the church "immediately after" the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31; cf. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17, Revelation 19:2 to 20:6), which events Jesus had just finished describing in Matthew 24:2-31, and which he would later show in great detail in Revelation chapters 6 to 19. Matthew 24:34 didn't mean that the tribulation, 2nd coming, and rapture would be fulfilled during the temporal generation alive at the time of Jesus' 1st coming, for none of those things was fulfilled during that temporal generation.

Instead, Matthew 24:34 could mean that the temporal generation which would see the 1948 AD reestablishment of Israel, which could be symbolized by the rebudding of the fig tree (Matthew 24:32-34, Hosea 9:10, Joel 1:6-7, Luke 13:6-9, Matthew 21:19,43), won't pass, i.e. won't die off completely, until the future tribulation and 2nd coming of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 19 are fulfilled. A temporal generation may not pass until 70 or 80 years (Psalms 90:10), or 120 years (Genesis 6:3).

This doesn't require that the 2nd coming will occur right before, like one year before, that generation will pass: i.e. 69, or 79, or 119 years after 1948: in 2017, 2027, or 2067. And if the tribulation which will immediately precede the 2nd coming and rapture (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6) will last 7 years (Daniel 9:27), the tribulation's first year didn't have to be in 2011, and won't have to be in 2021 or 2061, but could be in a future year (e.g. 2020) earlier than 2021.

Matthew 24:34 could also include the meaning that the figurative, all-times generation of the elect (Matthew 24:22, Luke 16:8b, Colossians 3:12; 1 Thessalonians 1:4) won't pass away from the earth during the future tribulation of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 18, but that some of the elect will survive (Matthew 24:22) until Jesus' 2nd coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53), immediately after the tribulation of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 18 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

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The rebudding of the fig tree (Matthew 24:32) can refer to the 1948 reestablishment of Israel, just as Jesus' cursing of the fig tree (Matthew 21:19) was symbolic of his curse on unbelieving, Old Covenant Israel (Matthew 21:43). The Israel that was reestablished in 1948 is the same Old Covenant Israel that Jesus cursed at his first coming. For it still rejects Jesus and still considers itself to be under the Old Covenant. This Israel merely "putting forth leaves" again (Matthew 24:32) in 1948 was nothing more than a restoration to what the fig tree in Matthew 21:19,43 had been before it was cursed forever by Jesus and then destroyed in 70 AD: a tree with leaves, but without any fruit. And the unbelieving, Old Covenant Israel which was reestablished (by men) in 1948 may never bear fruit. For it could be destroyed before Jesus' 2nd coming, during a future war, by a Baathist army, just as it had been destroyed in 70 AD by a Roman-empire army.

But Jesus' kingdom is still called "Israel" (John 1:49, John 12:13-15, John 19:19, Luke 22:30). And at Jesus' 2nd coming, he will sit on the earthly throne of David (Luke 1:32-33, Isaiah 9:7), and restore the kingdom to Israel (Acts 1:6-7, Acts 3:20-21). Jesus is, in his humanity, the son of David (Matthew 1:1, Matthew 21:15-16, Romans 1:3), of the house of David (Luke 1:69). So at Jesus' 2nd coming, he will restore the tabernacle, the house, of David (Isaiah 16:5, Amos 9:11) to its royal glory (2 Samuel 5:12), which it had lost (2 Kings 17:21a). And Jesus will fulfill the prophecy and prayer of 2 Samuel 7:16-29. And he will bring salvation to all the still-living, unbelieving elect Jews of the house of David. For they (along with all other still-living, unbelieving elect Jews) will come into faith in him when they see him at his 2nd coming (Zechariah 12:10-14, Zechariah 13:1,6, Romans 11:26-31). And so they will all become part of the church at that time, for now there are no believers outside of the church (Ephesians 4:4-6).

After Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:3, Zechariah 14:3-5) will occur the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Zechariah 14:8-21), during which time the Gentile nations will come to seek the returned Jesus ruling the whole earth (Zechariah 8:22, Zechariah 14:9, Psalms 72:8-11) on the restored throne of David (Isaiah 9:7) in the earthly Jerusalem (Isaiah 2:1-4, Zechariah 14:8-11,16-19). And the physically resurrected church will reign on the earth with Jesus during the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29). For the church is Israel (Romans 11:1,17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29, Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10).

A New World said in post 551:

Peter, James, John and Paul continued to teach the end of the age as an imminent event (1 Pet. 4:7,17; Jam. 5:7-9; 1 John 2:18; 1 Cor. 10:11).

1 Peter 4:7 But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.

Because the end of all things has never happened, the "at hand" in 1 Peter 4:7 can be understood from the viewpoint of God, for whom a thousand years is like a day (2 Peter 3:8-9).

The end of all things (1 Peter 4:7) won't occur until about 3,000 AD, when, after the future millennium and subsequent events (Revelation 20:7-10), heaven (the 1st heaven, the sky/atmosphere) and the earth (its surface) will be literally burned up (2 Peter 3:10) before the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11-15) and the subsequent creation of a new heaven (atmosphere) and earth (surface) (Revelation 21:1-8).

1 Peter 4:7 means that Christians living at any time before this happens should live godly lives (2 Peter 3:11-18).

 

[Bible2]

A New World said in post 551:

Peter, James, John and Paul continued to teach the end of the age as an imminent event (1 Pet. 4:7,17; Jam. 5:7-9; 1 John 2:18; 1 Cor. 10:11).

James 5:8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.
9 Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge standeth before the door.

The holy scripture of James 5:8-9 must be understood from the viewpoint of God, not of any man (2 Peter 3:8-9; 2 Peter 1:20-21), because Jesus' 2nd coming has never happened.

Jesus will return "in like manner" as he ascended (Acts 1:11b), in that just as at the end of his first coming he was seen by literal eyes to ascend physically from the Mount of Olives into a literal cloud and on into heaven (Acts 1:9,12, cf. Luke 24:39), so at his 2nd coming he will be seen in literal clouds by literal eyes (Revelation 1:7, Matthew 24:30) to physically descend from heaven (1 Thessalonians 4:16) and set his feet on the Mount of Olives (Zechariah 14:3-21).

Matthew 24:30 refers to Jesus' never-fulfilled 2nd coming, when he himself will appear in the clouds: "they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory" (Matthew 24:30). And this won't occur until immediately after the never-fulfilled tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6). Matthew 24:30 will occur at the same time as the never-fulfilled Matthew 24:29 and Matthew 24:31.

When Jesus returns, immediately after the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Revelation 19:7-21, Matthew 24:29-31), he will descend physically from heaven on a white horse (Revelation 19:7-21; 1 Thessalonians 4:16, Zechariah 14:3-4, Acts 1:11-12) with all the holy angels (Matthew 25:31; 2 Thessalonians 1:7) for all the world to see (Matthew 24:27,30, Revelation 1:7). Then the church will be physically resurrected (if dead) or changed (if alive) into immortality (1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53; 1 Thessalonians 4:16, Revelation 20:4-6) and caught up together/gathered together (raptured) (Matthew 24:31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1) as high as the clouds of the sky to hold a meeting in the air with Jesus (1 Thessalonians 4:17).

At that meeting, Jesus will judge the church (Psalms 50:3-5, cf. Mark 13:27; 2 Corinthians 5:10, Luke 12:45-48) and marry its obedient part (Revelation 19:7-8, Matthew 25:1-12) in the clouds, before it mounts white horses and comes back down from sky (the 1st heaven) with Jesus (Revelation 19:14) as he defeats the world's armies (Revelation 19:19,21), and the Antichrist and False Prophet (Revelation 19:20), and has Lucifer (Satan) bound in the bottomless pit for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:1-3).

Jesus will then make the marriage supper of Revelation 19:9 for the obedient part of the church in the earthly Jerusalem (Isaiah 25:6-9; 1 Corinthians 15:54), while the birds will feast on the corpses of the world's defeated armies (Revelation 19:17-18). Then Jesus and the obedient part of the church will rule the surviving nations with a rod of iron for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 2). After the 1,000 years, Lucifer will be released from the bottomless pit and bring about the Gog/Magog rebellion, only to be defeated for the last time (Revelation 20:7-10, Ezekiel chapters 38-39).

At least 7 years after that defeat (Ezekiel 39:9b), the great white throne judgment will occur, in which all those who hadn't been resurrected and judged at Jesus' return will be resurrected and judged (Revelation 20:11-15). Then God will create a new heaven (a new 1st heaven: a new sky/atmosphere for the earth) and a new earth (a new surface for the earth) (Revelation 21:1; 2 Peter 3:10b,13). Then God the Father will descend from the 3rd heaven in the literal city of New Jerusalem (Revelation 21:2), the Father's house (John 14:2, Revelation 21:3), and he will dwell on the earth with Jesus and the church (Revelation 21:3).

In one area outside the walls of New Jerusalem on the new earth will be the lake of fire (Revelation 22:15, Revelation 21:8), in which all of unsaved humanity will be punished forever in fire and brimstone with Lucifer and his fallen angels (Revelation 20:10,15, Matthew 25:41,46).

A New World said in post 551:

Peter, James, John and Paul continued to teach the end of the age as an imminent event (1 Pet. 4:7,17; Jam. 5:7-9; 1 John 2:18; 1 Cor. 10:11).

1 John 2:18's last time, or "hour" (original Greek), has been going on for the last 2,000 years, just as the "hour" of everyone's still-future, physical resurrection (John 5:28-29) will span over a 1,000-year period (Revelation 20:5).

Also, the existence of many antichrists (1 John 2:18) doesn't contradict that there will be an individual man (2 Thessalonians 2:3,4,9, Revelation 13:4-18) who is commonly called the Antichrist, just as on the side of good, the existence of many sons of God (John 1:12) doesn't contradict that there is an individual man (Jesus Christ of Nazareth) who is the Son of God (John 20:31).

A New World said in post 551:

Peter, James, John and Paul continued to teach the end of the age as an imminent event (1 Pet. 4:7,17; Jam. 5:7-9; 1 John 2:18; 1 Cor. 10:11).

1 Corinthians 10:11, like Hebrews 9:26, saying that the "end" of the world had come in the 1st century AD is like someone today on a Friday saying "the weekend is here!", in that both mean that multiple "days" have yet to come.

The "last days" began in the 1st century AD with Jesus' first coming (Hebrews 1:2) and the Holy Spirit's pouring out at the Pentecost in Acts 2 (Acts 2:16-17). The last days can be the last 3, roughly 1,000-year "days" (2 Peter 3:8) of the 7, roughly 1,000-year "days" from the creation of Adam in roughly 4,000 BC to the future end of the present earth and the creation of the new earth (Revelation 21:1) in roughly 3,000 AD. So the last "days" can be the roughly 3,000 years from Jesus' first coming to sometime after the future millennium (Revelation 20:4-6), which will be part of the last, roughly 1,000-year "day" (2 Peter 3:8), which could begin at Jesus' (never fulfilled) 2nd coming (1 Corinthians 1:7-8).

 

[A New World]

Hebrews 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Hebrews 8:13 means that when the prophet Jeremiah in the 6th century BC prophesied in Jeremiah 31:31-34 about the 1st century AD making of the New Covenant which wouldn't be according to the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law. Jeremiah's prophecy, as soon as it was made, had immediately made the letter of the Mosaic-law covenant "old" and headed inexorably toward a future extinction. This extinction occurred not in 70 AD, but decades earlier, at the moment that Jesus died on the Cross

IMO you're correct in seeing the promise of the New Covenant by Jeremiah as prophesying the inevitable "future extinction" of the Old.

That explains Heb. 8:13a:
"In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete."

However, the writer of Hebrews also indicated the time of the "future extinction" had drawn near. This is clear from the use of the present tense, "is becoming obsolete," and the phrase that expressed imminence, "is ready to vanish away."

"Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away." (Hebrews‬ 8‬:13‬b)

Since Hebrews was written decades after Jesus died on the Cross the writer was not referring to a past event but to the events of AD 70.

So there was no transition period, no overlap at all between the time of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law and the time of the New Covenant.

The entire book of Hebrews is about the transition from the Old Mosaic Covenant to the New Messianic Covenant.

Notice again the present tense in the following verse:
"It was symbolic for the present time in which both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make him who performed the service perfect in regard to the conscience—" (Hebrews‬ 9‬:9‬ NKJV)

Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

When Jesus says "ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies" (Luke 21:20), he is referring to the first part of Daniel 11:31: "And arms shall stand on his part". And when Jesus says "the desolation" in Luke 21:20, he is referring to the "abomination of desolation" part of Daniel 11:31, just as in Matthew 24:15, he is referring to the "abomination of desolation" part of Daniel 11:31.

I believe it's important to apply the principle of Audience Relevance as often as possible in order to determine the context.

Jesus said:
“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains." (Matthew‬ 24‬:15-16‬ NKJV)

The parallel passage:
"But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her." (Luke‬ 21‬:20-21‬ NKJV)

By conflating the two passages we see that Jesus told those of that generation "when you see the ‘abomination of desolation'...Jerusalem surrounded by armies...flee to the mountains."

The Christians heeded the words of Jesus and did exactly that and escaped the destruction of Jerusalem.

The gospel will be preached to all nations during the future tribulation (Revelation 14:6). Also, Matthew 24:6,13,14 refers only to the end of the future tribulation of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 18. For while the apostles asked Jesus about the end of the age (Matthew 24:3), he didn't tell them that the end of the age would occur at the destruction of the 2nd temple

We have the prophecy of Jesus:
"And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come." (Matthew‬ 24‬:14‬ NKJV)

And the fulfillment recorded by Paul:
"Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel...and by the prophetic Scriptures made known to all nations..." (Romans‬ 16‬:25-26‬ NKJV)

"...the gospel, which has come to you, as it has also in all the world, and is bringing forth fruit, as it is also among you since the day you heard and knew the grace of God in truth" (Col. 1:5,6)

"...the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister." (Col. 1:23‬ NKJV)

Matthew 24:34 could mean that the temporal generation which would see the 1948 AD reestablishment of Israel, which could be symbolized by the rebudding of the fig tree (Matthew 24:32-34, Hosea 9:10, Joel 1:6-7, Luke 13:6-9, Matthew 21:19,43), won't pass, i.e. won't die off completely, until the future tribulation and 2nd coming of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 19 are fulfilled. A temporal generation may not pass until 70 or 80 years (Psalms 90:10), or 120 years (Genesis 6:3).

I think a better approach is to find out how the inspired apostles understood Jesus' words.

A parallel passage to Mt. 24:34 is James 5:3,7-9:
"Your gold and silver are corroded, and their corrosion will be a witness against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have heaped up treasure in the last days...Therefore be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. See how the farmer waits for the precious fruit of the earth, waiting patiently for it until it receives the early and latter rain. You also be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand. Do not grumble against one another, brethren, lest you be condemned. Behold, the Judge is standing at the door!" (James‬ 5‬:3, 7-9‬ NKJV)

James clearly understood that he was living in the last days, the end was near, the Judge was standing at the door!

The rebudding of the fig tree (Matthew 24:32) can refer to the 1948 reestablishment of Israel, just as Jesus' cursing of the fig tree (Matthew 21:19) was symbolic of his curse on unbelieving, Old Covenant Israel (Matthew 21:43). The Israel that was reestablished in 1948 is the same Old Covenant Israel that Jesus cursed at his first coming. For it still rejects Jesus and still considers itself to be under the Old Covenant.

Since the Old Covenant has vanished away (you believe when Jesus died, I believe it was ready to vanish away when Hebrews was written), by definition, there is no longer an Old Covenant people.

Whether Israel today "considers itself to be under the Old Covenant" or not they cannot be since there is no such covenant.

1 Peter 4:7 But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.

Because the end of all things has never happened, the "at hand" in 1 Peter 4:7 can be understood from the viewpoint of God, for whom a thousand years is like a day (2 Peter 3:8-9).

The end of all things (1 Peter 4:7) won't occur until about 3,000 AD.

1 Peter 4:7 means that Christians living at any time before this happens should live godly lives (2 Peter 3:11-18).

Again, we would be wise to consider the application of the principle of Audience Relevance to establish the context and the intention of the author.

Peter, writing to the "elect" "pilgrims of the Dispersion," told them they were living in "the last times" (1Pet. 1:1,2,5,20).

He told them: "But the end of all things is at hand; therefore be serious and watchful in your prayers...For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?" (I Peter‬ 4‬:7, 17‬ NKJV)

 

[Danoh]

It's interesting how much of this thread; which began based in scholastic arguement [Scholasticism] basically remained the basis of just about all arguements on all sides.

Ironic in that consistent Scholastticism is the very enemy of the Dispensationalism, 1 Cor. 1; 1 Cor. 2.

The wisdom; the reasoning of this world; of the scribe, of the scholar, even Christ.had warned the Twelve could so easily leaven the doctrine He had taught them.

This is exactly why Paul related "the Greeks seek after wisdom... of words... of reasoning, of the foolhardy "what this means to me," which nevertheless so infected the so called Early Church.fathers, but especially so came to dominate the thought of the Reformers so many today.hang their every last.breath on...

Its proof enough for me that this post will be rejected, as it too seeks to reason against another's school of reasoning.

Thus, why, what must be made the focus Paul's literalism, 1 Cor. 1 and 2, over "books about" no matter their particular camp...

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Hebrews 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Hebrews 8:13 means that when the prophet Jeremiah in the 6th century BC prophesied in Jeremiah 31:31-34 about the 1st century AD making of the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 9:15-17; 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6), which wouldn't be according to the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Jeremiah 31:32, Romans 7:6), Jeremiah's prophecy, as soon as it was made, had immediately made the letter of the Mosaic-law covenant "old" and headed inexorably toward a future extinction (Hebrews 7:18-19). This extinction occurred not in 70 AD, but decades earlier, at the moment that Jesus died on the Cross (Matthew 27:50-51a), and abolished the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17, Romans 7:6; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18, Hebrews 7:18-19), which was the same moment that he brought the New Covenant into effect (Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 9:15-17, Hebrews 10:19-20, Matthew 27:51a). So there was no transition period, no overlap at all (Hebrews 10:9b, Hebrews 7:12), between the time of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law and the time of the New Covenant.



Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

When Jesus says "ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies" (Luke 21:20), he is referring to the first part of Daniel 11:31: "And arms shall stand on his part". And when Jesus says "the desolation" in Luke 21:20, he is referring to the "abomination of desolation" part of Daniel 11:31, just as in Matthew 24:15, he is referring to the "abomination of desolation" part of Daniel 11:31.

So Luke 21:20-23 isn't referring to 70 AD, nor (as is sometimes claimed) to the pillaging of Jerusalem which will occur at the very end of the future tribulation, right before Jesus' 2nd coming to save Jerusalem (Zechariah 14), but is referring to what will happen mid-tribulation, when the Antichrist will antitypically fulfill Daniel 11:31 at the start of his future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18), during which 3.5 years, Jerusalem will be trodden down by the Gentiles (Revelation 11:2b), which future treading down is what Luke 21:24 is referring to.

Regarding the "abomination of desolation", Daniel 11:31 was typically fulfilled by the abomination of desolation in 1 Maccabees 1:54, which occurred in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the 2nd Jewish temple in Jerusalem in the time of Antiochus IV. But per Jesus' statement in Matthew 24:15, the church will see the abomination of desolation in Daniel 11:31 fulfilled (antitypically) in the future, when the church will see the abomination of desolation stand in the holy place (of a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem). This future abomination of desolation could be a standing, android image of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:15) which his followers ("they") will put in the holy place of the temple (Daniel 11:31) to be worshipped (Revelation 13:15), after they have stopped the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices which the ultra-Orthodox Jews will have restarted in front of the temple (Daniel 11:31). This image will pollute the holy place of the temple (Daniel 11:31).

The Antichrist will then fulfill Daniel 11:36 and 2 Thessalonians 2:4 by sitting himself (at least one time) in the temple and proclaiming himself God. By the power of Satan (the dragon, Revelation 12:9), the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") will then rule and be worshipped by all the nations of the earth for 3.5 literal years (Revelation 13:4-18), and will physically overcome Biblical Christians (not in hiding) in every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

Also, from the day on which (antitypically) "the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be 1,290 days. Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the 1,335 days" (Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation 16:15). Also, because the Antichrist will fulfill Daniel 11:31 antitypically (Matthew 24:15) and will fulfill Daniel 11:36 for the first (and only) time, then he will also fulfill all of Daniel 11:21-45 (the first part of it antitypically, and the rest for the first and only time) when he arises on the world stage, for that passage refers to the career of the same man. And since the Antichrist will fulfill all of Daniel 11:21-45 when he arises on the world stage, then just preceding his arising on the world stage, Daniel 11:13-19 could be fulfilled antitypically by an Iraqi Baathist General completely defeating and occupying Israel and Egypt with a huge Iraqi Army (Daniel 11:15-17; in verse 17 the original Hebrew word translated as "daughter" is "bath").

*******



The gospel will be preached to all nations during the future tribulation (Revelation 14:6). Also, Matthew 24:6,13,14 refers only to the end of the future tribulation of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 18. For while the apostles asked Jesus about the end of the age (Matthew 24:3), he didn't tell them that the end of the age would occur at the destruction of the 2nd temple, or (as is sometimes claimed) before the future tribulation, or even at the end of the future tribulation, i.e. at his (post-tribulation) 2nd coming (Matthew 24:29-31), or when the end of the age would occur, just as Jesus didn't tell the apostles many other things during his ministry (John 16:12). It wouldn't be until much later that Jesus would show the apostle John, through the vision in the book of Revelation (given about 95 AD: Irenaeus, Against Heresies 5:30:3c), that the end of the age, when all the unsaved will be cast into the lake of fire (Matthew 13:40, Matthew 25:41, Revelation 20:15), won't occur until over 1,000 years after Jesus' (never fulfilled) 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:15).



Note that Matthew 24:34 refers to the fulfillment of "all these things", meaning all the events of the tribulation, and Jesus' 2nd coming and the gathering together (rapture) of the church "immediately after" the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31; cf. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17, Revelation 19:2 to 20:6), which events Jesus had just finished describing in Matthew 24:2-31, and which he would later show in great detail in Revelation chapters 6 to 19. Matthew 24:34 didn't mean that the tribulation, 2nd coming, and rapture would be fulfilled during the temporal generation alive at the time of Jesus' 1st coming, for none of those things was fulfilled during that temporal generation.

Instead, Matthew 24:34 could mean that the temporal generation which would see the 1948 AD reestablishment of Israel, which could be symbolized by the rebudding of the fig tree (Matthew 24:32-34, Hosea 9:10, Joel 1:6-7, Luke 13:6-9, Matthew 21:19,43), won't pass, i.e. won't die off completely, until the future tribulation and 2nd coming of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 19 are fulfilled. A temporal generation may not pass until 70 or 80 years (Psalms 90:10), or 120 years (Genesis 6:3).

This doesn't require that the 2nd coming will occur right before, like one year before, that generation will pass: i.e. 69, or 79, or 119 years after 1948: in 2017, 2027, or 2067. And if the tribulation which will immediately precede the 2nd coming and rapture (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6) will last 7 years (Daniel 9:27), the tribulation's first year didn't have to be in 2011, and won't have to be in 2021 or 2061, but could be in a future year (e.g. 2020) earlier than 2021.

Matthew 24:34 could also include the meaning that the figurative, all-times generation of the elect (Matthew 24:22, Luke 16:8b, Colossians 3:12; 1 Thessalonians 1:4) won't pass away from the earth during the future tribulation of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 18, but that some of the elect will survive (Matthew 24:22) until Jesus' 2nd coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53), immediately after the tribulation of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 18 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

-

The rebudding of the fig tree (Matthew 24:32) can refer to the 1948 reestablishment of Israel, just as Jesus' cursing of the fig tree (Matthew 21:19) was symbolic of his curse on unbelieving, Old Covenant Israel (Matthew 21:43). The Israel that was reestablished in 1948 is the same Old Covenant Israel that Jesus cursed at his first coming. For it still rejects Jesus and still considers itself to be under the Old Covenant. This Israel merely "putting forth leaves" again (Matthew 24:32) in 1948 was nothing more than a restoration to what the fig tree in Matthew 21:19,43 had been before it was cursed forever by Jesus and then destroyed in 70 AD: a tree with leaves, but without any fruit. And the unbelieving, Old Covenant Israel which was reestablished (by men) in 1948 may never bear fruit. For it could be destroyed before Jesus' 2nd coming, during a future war, by a Baathist army, just as it had been destroyed in 70 AD by a Roman-empire army.

But Jesus' kingdom is still called "Israel" (John 1:49, John 12:13-15, John 19:19, Luke 22:30). And at Jesus' 2nd coming, he will sit on the earthly throne of David (Luke 1:32-33, Isaiah 9:7), and restore the kingdom to Israel (Acts 1:6-7, Acts 3:20-21). Jesus is, in his humanity, the son of David (Matthew 1:1, Matthew 21:15-16, Romans 1:3), of the house of David (Luke 1:69). So at Jesus' 2nd coming, he will restore the tabernacle, the house, of David (Isaiah 16:5, Amos 9:11) to its royal glory (2 Samuel 5:12), which it had lost (2 Kings 17:21a). And Jesus will fulfill the prophecy and prayer of 2 Samuel 7:16-29. And he will bring salvation to all the still-living, unbelieving elect Jews of the house of David. For they (along with all other still-living, unbelieving elect Jews) will come into faith in him when they see him at his 2nd coming (Zechariah 12:10-14, Zechariah 13:1,6, Romans 11:26-31). And so they will all become part of the church at that time, for now there are no believers outside of the church (Ephesians 4:4-6).

After Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:3, Zechariah 14:3-5) will occur the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Zechariah 14:8-21), during which time the Gentile nations will come to seek the returned Jesus ruling the whole earth (Zechariah 8:22, Zechariah 14:9, Psalms 72:8-11) on the restored throne of David (Isaiah 9:7) in the earthly Jerusalem (Isaiah 2:1-4, Zechariah 14:8-11,16-19). And the physically resurrected church will reign on the earth with Jesus during the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29). For the church is Israel (Romans 11:1,17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29, Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10).



1 Peter 4:7 But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.

Because the end of all things has never happened, the "at hand" in 1 Peter 4:7 can be understood from the viewpoint of God, for whom a thousand years is like a day (2 Peter 3:8-9).

The end of all things (1 Peter 4:7) won't occur until about 3,000 AD, when, after the future millennium and subsequent events (Revelation 20:7-10), heaven (the 1st heaven, the sky/atmosphere) and the earth (its surface) will be literally burned up (2 Peter 3:10) before the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11-15) and the subsequent creation of a new heaven (atmosphere) and earth (surface) (Revelation 21:1-8).

1 Peter 4:7 means that Christians living at any time before this happens should live godly lives (2 Peter 3:11-18).

Oh my goodness!
Do you really think members here are going to read an extendly long cut and past post?




.

 

[Interplanner]

Yes, he does. I'm not sure there is a person there, or if it is a keyword autopasting response software.

 

[Biblewriter]

Oh my goodness!
Do you really think members here are going to read an extendly long cut and past post?




.

A few people might, so he keeps on. I stopped reading his posts a long time ago.

 

[Biblewriter]

This is a good try Biblewriter...but the fact is many historians have questioned the 95 AD date. This is in no way as settled an issue as you think and wish to purport.

Please don't come with this "futurist could care less" idea because the first thing they yell is "Revelation was written in 95 AD".

Kenneth Gentry's book is yet to be refuted! This is a thorough and scholarly work and Gentry has updated the book since. This version is from 1986.

Kenneth Gentry "Before Jerusalem Fell"...this is a free .pdf book:
http://www.preteristarchive.com/Books/pdf/1989_gentry_before-jerusalem-fell.pdf

Gentry's book has been thoroughly refuted right here in this thread.

 

[Rev20]

Gentry's book has been thoroughly refuted right here in this thread.

In your dreams, maybe.