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Why Hell ?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Sidon, Jul 5, 2021.

  1. Sidon

    Sidon Well-Known Member

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    Lets be informed regarding why Hell exists.

    Here is why Hell exists, and here is why the Lake of fire exists..
    Let me show you.

    1.) "created for the devil and his angels".

    Notice, "his angles".
    So, when did Lucifer, create any angels, in Heaven?
    ummmmm

    Ummmmmmm

    UMMMMMMMMMMMM.

    """"He didnt.""
    Good answer. !!

    So, why does the NT say that these angels are "his"?

    Its because when you are "of the devil", He is your FATHER.

    Notice...>Jesus says ...>"YOU, are of YOUR FATHER....the DEVIL, and the lusts of YOUR= father, you shall do"..

    See that?

    That is all the unbelievers.
    Every single one.
    That is you, if are only water baptized and not actually BORN again.
    (Water has no power to cause a Spiritual Birth).

    Why do sinners sin, and love it?
    "because you are of your FATHER THE DEVIL, and the lusts of your father, you shall do".

    So, Hell and the Lake of Fire, is made for all those., who are OF the DEVIL.

    2.) That is all the Christ Rejectors.

    And also...
    Hell is sitting there.
    The Lake of fire is burning.
    Its created for the Devil's own., so, if a person ends up there, then they ended up there with their FATHER.

    So, to escape this eternity, God came here as Christ on the Cross and offers you HEAVEN INSTEAD.

    3.) To get it, you have to CHANGE FATHER's.

    Jesus said..>"you must be BORN AGAIN".

    See that "born"? That is when God become your Father, and the Devil stops being your father.
     
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  2. Taodeching

    Taodeching Well-Known Member

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    .

    Christ did not die on the Cross and rise again because of Hell but to reconcile us back to the Father. As St. Irenaeus in Against Heresies 5.21 states:

    He has therefore, in His work of recapitulation, summed up all things, both waging war against our enemy, and crushing him who had at the beginning led us away captives in Adam ...the enemy would not have been fairly vanquished, unless it had been a man [born] of woman who conquered him. ... And therefore does the Lord profess Himself to be the Son of man, comprising in Himself that original man out of whom the woman was fashioned, in order that, as our species went down to death through a vanquished man, so we may ascend to life again through a victorious one; and as through a man death received the palm [of victory] against us, so again by a man we may receive the palm against death.
     
  3. Navair2

    Navair2 May the Lord Jesus Christ be magnified above all

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    A goat can change into a sheep?
    No, Sidon, that isn't how it works.

    A sheep is a sheep, and a goat is a goat.
    His sheep hear His voice, and the goats do not ( John 8:43-47, John 10:26-27 ).
    The sheep were never the devil's children.
    They were always God's children.

    In fact, He loved them even when they were dead in their trespasses and sins, and they were created in Christ Jesus ( Ephesians 2:1-10 ).
    Read Romans 9, my friend...

    God loved Jacob and hated Esau, and before either of them had done any good or evil, God's purpose according to election would stand.
    Vessels of wrath fitted to destruction, and vessels of mercy, "afore prepared unto glory".

    That is who God's children are...
    The vessels of mercy.
    They were never in danger of Hell because He is not willing that any of them perish, but that they all come to repentance ( 2 Peter 3:8-9 ).

    That is how much He loves the "whoseover believeth", from the heart.

    Good evening to you.
     
  4. Sidon

    Sidon Well-Known Member

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    One of the eternal benefits of Salvation, is that you dont have to go to hell.

    Christ taught more about hell during His earthly ministry, then he taught about Heaven.

    Preachers dont talk about it much these days other to try to Air Condition it from the Pulpit, in preparation of moving in, later.
     
  5. Taodeching

    Taodeching Well-Known Member

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    The focus shouldn't be on hell but on reconciling people back to God. Christ was and is the new Adam and throughout His life replaced the disobedience with obedience no to escape Hell but to be put in right relation with the Father so we may become like the Son. Once again return to Irenaeus:

    [Christ] was in these last days, according to the time appointed by the Father, united to His own workmanship, inasmuch as He became a man liable to suffering ... He commenced afresh the long line of human beings, and furnished us, in a brief, comprehensive manner, with salvation; so that what we had lost in Adam—namely, to be according to the image and likeness of God—that we might recover in Christ Jesus.

    Source

    Salvation has never been about getting away from hell
     
  6. Sidon

    Sidon Well-Known Member

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    Yes.
    Its called "Born again".

    For example, if Paul who was helping to murder Christians, ends up writing most of the New Testament, and is the greatest Christian who ever lived, then this proves that you also have a chance, doesn't it?
     
  7. Nicaea_1Q

    Nicaea_1Q New Member

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  8. Nicaea_1Q

    Nicaea_1Q New Member

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    This might be a little controversial but two of God's attributes his mercy and love. He's also all powerful. So God could save anybody wants or the opposite. I just want to believe innocence goes to heaven.:)

    Yes, hell does exist. It is a state of separation from God because of your sins. So painful that you are in total anguish.

    Lake of fire is after the great judgment which all unrepentant sinners and demons will be thrown into. They will go up; they will go down as in the convection currents. Eternally bumping into each other and blackening or until the purified. The demons will always be under the cover in the unquenchable fire. :(

    Anyways hell is ambiguous better words would be Hades, Tartarus and Gehenna; and Hell covers all three. Hades is the board of the dead, the underworld. So that's just one and it is how the New Testament uses it in the Greek. The Greek terms are used but none of them are used like hell with English.
     
  9. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Sheep hear their Shepherd's voice. But while we were in sin, we did not hear our Shepherd's voice. And our Apostle Paul says,

    "we all once" "were by nature children of wrath, just as the others." (in Ephesians 2:3)

    Paul says "we", not "you"; so Paul includes himself as one who used to be a child of wrath . . . not with Christ's sheep. So, before "we first" "trusted in Christ" (in Ephesians 1:12), "all" of us were "children of wrath". And a child of wrath, I offer, is not a child of God . . . not a sheep.

    Jesus sent Paul to turn people "from the power of Satan to God," we have in Acts 26:18. Before we were with Jesus, we were in Satan's power, in the power of his evil spirit >

    "the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience" (in Ephesians 2:2)

    But now we are with God working in us >

    "for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (Colossians 3:15)
     
  10. Navair2

    Navair2 May the Lord Jesus Christ be magnified above all

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    I agree that before the Lord called us, we did not pay attention to His words.
    After His Spirit worked in us and made us new creatures, we did.
    Notice what he said and what God's word says.
    It never says that God's elect were the children of wrath.

    It says we were, by nature, the children of wrath... even as others.
    That is, we were, in our natures, the same as the children of wrath.

    " He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." ( John 3:36 ). <-- The wrath of God already abides on those who do not believe. That's why they do not believe.


    Again, His children are vessels of mercy afore prepared, by God, unto glory ( Romans 9:22-24 ).
    They were always His children.

    That is why they will never be lost.:)
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2021
  11. Navair2

    Navair2 May the Lord Jesus Christ be magnified above all

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    I agree with the bolded.
    A child of wrath is not a child of God.
    They are the children of the devil.

    A child of God is, by purpose ( Romans 8:28 ), His child.
    They are the called according to His purpose.
    Always were, always will be.

    That is why the Lord told Paul,
    " For I am with thee, and no man shall set on thee to hurt thee: for I have much people in this city." ( Acts of the Apostles 18:10 ).

    Why don't people believe on Christ?
    Because they are not His sheep ( John 10:26 ).

    His sheep hear His voice, He knows them and they follow Him.
    That is why He will say to those that were never His, never given to Him by His Father ( John 6:65, John 17:2 ), "I never knew you. Depart from me, ye that work iniquity." ( Matthew 7:21-23 ).
    Again I agree.
    Yet again, I agree.

    God bless you, and thank you for your comments,
    even though I find that we will have to agree to disagree in the finer points.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2021
  12. Navair2

    Navair2 May the Lord Jesus Christ be magnified above all

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    "Chance" was never part of the equation, Sidon.

    God does not save based on "what-ifs" and our fickle will as men ( which is dead-set against Him prior to the new birth ), my friend.
    Please see Romans 8:28-30 and Romans 9:13-24 for the reason why people believe on Christ.

    Also, being born again is not by our will, it is by His will alone ( John 1:13, James 1:18, Romans 9:11, Romans 9:16, Ephesians 1:4-6 ).
    Short of the miracle of the new birth, no one would ever believe His words;
    and short of election, God would never work in any of us to change our hearts.

    Be glad for he privilege to call upon a Saviour who cares about you, Sidon.
    That privilege was purchased at great price...the suffering and shame of the Lord Jesus Christ and the Lord's immutable purposes that saw you believe His words about our sinful condition before Him.


    Good evening to you.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2021
  13. Sidon

    Sidon Well-Known Member

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    None are innocent down here.
    All have sinned.
    So, its not about being good enough to go to heaven, as "none are good, no not one".

    Jesus is the GOOD, He's the RIGHTEOUS.... and based on His BLOOD being SHED, "all who call on the name of Jesus shall be saved".

    Jesus said "you must. be. BORN AGAIN"..

    This is not by water.
     
  14. Sidon

    Sidon Well-Known Member

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    I've not said it was...

    Stop making things up.
    Either be honest, or try to figure out why this is difficult for you to do on a "christian" forum.
    Resolve that, asap.
     
  15. bling

    bling Regular Member Supporter

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    You believe all new born or even the unborn go to hell?
     
  16. Navair2

    Navair2 May the Lord Jesus Christ be magnified above all

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    I'm not making anything up, Sidon.

    As for being honest, I think you're not using the term correctly.
    I am being honest, in that what I post I fully believe to be true and objective...
    Or I would not post it.

    However, if you're asking me to stop misrepresenting what it is you're teaching, I think that if you looked at it carefully and objectively, you might see where you're contradicting not only yourself, but the Scriptures as well.

    I'll repeat it one more time so you see what I'm referring to.
    You said:
    ...and I said,
    To be clear, there is no "chance" involved when it comes to who God saves.
    Jesus Christ will save everyone that was written in the Lamb's Book of Life from the foundation of the world.
    In other words,
    He will save everyone that His Father has given to Him ( John 17:2 ).

    My question to you is,
    Do you not see that God's choice of the sinner to salvation ( Romans 8:29-30, Romans 9:13-24, Ephesians 1:4-6, Ephesians 10, 2 Thessalonians 2:13 ) is what determines who is saved and who is not...and that their belief of His words because of His merciful work in them, then follows His decision to save them?

    I can only conclude that you don't see any of that when you read the Scriptures, or you would not be teaching that a person's faith is what saves them.


    With that, I'll take my leave of this thread as well.
    May God bless you sir.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2021
  17. Sidon

    Sidon Well-Known Member

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    Hell is created for the Devil and his own.
    The born again are God's.
    God's own do not go to Hell.
     
  18. Sidon

    Sidon Well-Known Member

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    Ive not used this word "chance", in my posts or in my Threads.
    So, you should try to be honest about that, as i really dont think its to your favor for me to tell you a 4th time.

    Salvation is not a "chance", its a GIFT, supplied by The Blood of Jesus as the "Gift of Salvation".
     
  19. bling

    bling Regular Member Supporter

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    I will ask it again:
    Are unborn and/or new born children "God's own"?
     
  20. Sidon

    Sidon Well-Known Member

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    Yes

    1. Aborted fetuses, (unborn babies)
    2. very young children
     
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