Why have Catholics removed the second commandment?

[Alicia_M]

I understnad where the catholic church is coming from in that sense although I still have a lot of questions. I've been trying to ask my roomate, who is Catholic, but everytime I ask him a theological question he changes the subject. I believe he doesn't know very much about it then. So I figured I should ask where people seem to know what they are talking about. What I still don't understand is why Catholics use mediators to reach God other than Jesus.

If I've learned correctly there is a reference in the OT: God tells two men to ask Job to pray for them because Job is a good and faithful servant. Also, a reference in Revelations (paraphrased) that the prayers of the Saints are pleasing to Him, like incense. And I'm relatively sure that if the information passed along is incorrect, it will be swiftly corrected.

Another situation that might be worth consideration: we do ask others on Earth to pray for us. Conversely, the faithful pray for others, even the lost, and the enemy. If God infact is a living eternal being, the Afterlife is even more a real fact than life on Earth? Some of the departed do in truth still live in Heaven. Some things which seem obvious to me: Mary and the Apostles living in Heaven alongside of Christ. Angels are also a part of Heaven, and serve the Will of the Lord. Asking someone who is holy to pray for you is a normative practice during this life and the next. *shrugs*

 

[derDenker1992]

If I've learned correctly there is a reference in the OT: God tells two men to ask Job to pray for them because Job is a good and faithful servant. Also, a reference in Revelations (paraphrased) that the prayers of the Saints are pleasing to Him, like incense. And I'm relatively sure that if the information passed along is incorrect, it will be swiftly corrected.

Another situation that might be worth consideration: we do ask others on Earth to pray for us. Conversely, the faithful pray for others, even the lost, and the enemy. If God infact is a living eternal being, the Afterlife is even more a real fact than life on Earth? Some of the departed do in truth still live in Heaven. Some things which seem obvious to me: Mary and the Apostles living in Heaven alongside of Christ. Angels are also a part of Heaven, and serve the Will of the Lord. Asking someone who is holy to pray for you is a normative practice during this life and the next. *shrugs*

So do you pray to the saints, who then talk to Jesus, who then talks to God? Aren't all Christians saints?

 

[SolomonVII]

Jewish tradition generally numbers the commandments differently than Catholics.
It has to do with the idea of there being ten commandments , 5 per slate, with the 1;st corresponding with the first on the second slate (5), the second wiht the 6, etc. etc.

 

[Alicia_M]

So do you pray to the saints, who then talk to Jesus, who then talks to God? Aren't all Christians saints?

I do ask the Saints to pray for me just as I ask other people on Earth to pray for me. It's really just that simplistic: no hysteria or confusion. His Church includes the Church in Heaven. Physical death doesn't seperate His Body of followers.

I don't know where you stand on the issue of where the soul goes after bodily death. *shrugs*

According to Jesus not everyone who proclaims Him is actually a follower.

 

[derDenker1992]

I do ask the Saints to pray for me just as I ask other people on Earth to pray for me. It's really just that simplistic: no hysteria or confusion. His Church includes the Church in Heaven. Physical death doesn't seperate His Body of followers.

I don't know where you stand on the issue of where the soul goes after bodily death. *shrugs*

According to Jesus not everyone who proclaims Him is actually a follower.

Okay I understand all of that, but do you pray to God through Jesus as well? Also, I believe that your soul will either go to heaven or hell after death, depending on whether or not you accept the gift that God offered you.

 

[Dylan Michael]

So do you pray to the saints, who then talk to Jesus, who then talks to God?

Sort of. We pray to Saints, asking them to pray for us to God. That doesn't mean we don't pray to God, it just means we ask them to pray with us.
Remember, the original meaning of Pray was to Ask.

Aren't all Christians saints?

No, not all. Catholics believe anyone in Heaven is a saint.
We don't believe that anyone alive can say if they're going to heaven or hell, as that's God's job. In order to be recognized as a saint, a hugely complicated procedure has to be done.

 

[JoabAnias]

St. Paul believed we are already saints.

"If God can create a community of persons from nothing, enabling them to communicate with each as a vehicle of His love should be a snap!"

Read all this:


The Communion of Saints

• A Biblical Portrait of Saint
• The Canon of Holiness
• The Role of the Saints
• The Intercession of the Saints
  • How Do Saints Hear Us?
• The Canonization of Saints
  • The Current Canonization Process
  • The Biblical Description of Miracles
• Images and Relics of the Saints
  • The Incorruptibles
• Praying to the Saints / Praying for the Dead

At times I pray to Jesus, our Father, the Holy Ghost, the Trinity, the Lords Mother, step Father, Apostles, my patrons, the angels and my brothers and sisters on Earth. There is no division among those in heaven.

 

[Dark_Lite]

I understnad where the catholic church is coming from in that sense although I still have a lot of questions. I've been trying to ask my roomate, who is Catholic, but everytime I ask him a theological question he changes the subject. I believe he doesn't know very much about it then. So I figured I should ask where people seem to know what they are talking about. What I still don't understand is why Catholics use mediators to reach God other than Jesus.

As I said, many people have misconceptions about Catholicism--Catholics included. Religious education in much of the Western world is pretty bad right now. Hopefully it's turning around. Catholicism is an extremely complex religion, and many people don't like that... but to fully understand their beliefs, it is necessary.

 

[Alicia_M]

Okay I understand all of that, but do you pray to God through Jesus as well? Also, I believe that your soul will either go to heaven or hell after death, depending on whether or not you accept the gift that God offered you.

Yes, I pray to Jesus as well. I pray through Him to the Father since no one comes to the Father except through Him. Breaking it down to the most simplistic: I pray to Him, worship Him, try and model my life after Him, and sing songs to Him. He gave me a great and loving gift--one that has no equal in tenderness...

Like Joab, I try to worship and honor God in His complete Trinitarian nature: Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. It may help for more understanding on your end if you seek to learn more about the Trinity?

What really helped me with the mystery was a realization that even though I am only one being I also have three parts to my make up: body, mind, and soul. That isn't to mean that I am God's equal at all. What I am is a reflection, an image of God. An image because God first created Adam in His own image.

 

[Tigg]

Well, I am relieved we didn't throw out the 2nd.
It is good to ask when one doesn't know. To go direct to the source.

I pray to God thru Jesus. Pray to Jesus. Ask St Michael to put in a word and others as well. I pray for and ask my family members to do the same, pray, for me. My mom and dad and others. Where are they at? I don't know but they wished and prayed for me alive on earth and I imagine they do the same where ever they be. Matter of fact, I accept all prayer offered on my behalf of good intent by anyone. So if you have a second or two, please pray for me. I will for you too. God bless

 

[visionary]

I have to ask... why hasn't the commandments been upgraded to be viewed as Yeshua did and say there is two...

First commandment - Love God with all your heart.. and here is how...

- I am the LORD your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. 7'You shall have no other gods before Me. 8'You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. 9'You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, and on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me, 10but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments. - You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not leave him unpunished who takes His name in vain. - Observe the sabbath day to keep it holy, as the LORD your God commanded you. 13'Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 14but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter or your male servant or your female servant or your ox or your donkey or any of your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you, so that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you. 15'You shall remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out of there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the LORD your God commanded you to observe the sabbath day.

Second commandment is .. love your neighbor .. and here is how...

- Honor your father and your mother, as the LORD your God has commanded you, that your days may be prolonged and that it may go well with you on the land which the LORD your God gives you. - You shall not murder. - You shall not commit adultery. - You shall not steal. - You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - You shall not covet your neighbor's wife - You shall not desire your neighbor's house, his field or his male servant or his female servant, his ox or his donkey or anything that belongs to your neighbor.

 

[Davidnic]

So do you pray to the saints, who then talk to Jesus, who then talks to God? Aren't all Christians saints?

All Christians are saints. But for those declared Saints by the Church there has been a process where their life has been evaluated and the Church says..."if seems they lived a very good heroic Christian life" then the Church authorizes limited prayer and investigates any miracles that happen because of their intercession. If the miracles are verified we believe that God has shown us that they are indeed with Him. So we then pray for their intercession with greater confidence that they are in Heaven with God. And they are declared to be a known Saint.

In our mass on All Saints Day we pray, to "All Saints, known and unknown"

Those declared Saints have lives of heroic virtue and faith that can serve as examples to others. But there are many more who are saints in heaven, from old school teachers to millions we never knew.

Some people I know simply pray for all their brothers and sisters of the human race who are in heaven united with Christ to pray for them and trusts God to inform their hearts. It is the same concept. That those who died in Christ, live in Christ and they are part of what we call the Communion of Saints and pray for those in need.

 

[Rhamiel]

I have to ask... why hasn't the commandments been upgraded to be viewed as Yeshua did and say there is two...

First commandment - Love God with all your heart.. and here is how...

- I am the LORD your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. 7'You shall have no other gods before Me. 8'You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. 9'You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, and on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me, 10but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments. - You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not leave him unpunished who takes His name in vain. - Observe the sabbath day to keep it holy, as the LORD your God commanded you. 13'Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 14but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter or your male servant or your female servant or your ox or your donkey or any of your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you, so that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you. 15'You shall remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out of there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the LORD your God commanded you to observe the sabbath day.

Second commandment is .. love your neighbor .. and here is how...

- Honor your father and your mother, as the LORD your God has commanded you, that your days may be prolonged and that it may go well with you on the land which the LORD your God gives you. - You shall not murder. - You shall not commit adultery. - You shall not steal. - You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - You shall not covet your neighbor's wife - You shall not desire your neighbor's house, his field or his male servant or his female servant, his ox or his donkey or anything that belongs to your neighbor.

Well that is one way to fix the problem of how we number them

we do not think Jesus was changing the law, just explaining it in a concise way

 

[benedictaoo]

I still don't understand where it says to pray to saints or where it says that in the Bible. I apologize if this seems trivial to you, but I've never studied thoroughly into Catholic beliefs.

I'm still trying to figure out where in the bible it says it has to be in the bible to be Word of God?

Can you tell me where in the bible it says the Word of God is restricted to just what was written down on paper?

I can't find that in the bible, (that it has to be in the bible) so based on your premise, (that it has to be in the bible) I have to reject your premise (that it has to be in the bible) because it's just not in the bible.

Why can't the Word of God be what Jesus taught to the 12 and what they in turn taught and what those who they taught, in turn taught and so fourth down the line, that at some point, some of it was written down to be read in context as a whole with ALL the "Word of God" that was kept and handed down? Orally taught by His Church, the successors of the 12?

IOW, you need to learn what Tradition is. Both written AND Oral. Not just written.

 

[benedictaoo]

Okay I understand all of that, but do you pray to God through Jesus as well? Also, I believe that your soul will either go to heaven or hell after death, depending on whether or not you accept the gift that God offered you.

We pray to God, we pray To Jesus. We ask in Jesus name and we offer the Mass to God through Christ but when we pray, converse, we pray TO Jesus. We don't go through God to get to God.

Why do y'all feel you have to go through God to get to God?

 

[benedictaoo]

So do you pray to the saints, who then talk to Jesus, who then talks to God? Aren't all Christians saints?

A Saint is a person who has been perfected (holy) and has no selfishness or self love left in them. They are truly like God. NOt just pretending to be like Him.

They are truly and rightfully holy righteous ppl because they have allowed the love and mercy and grace of God to transform them into the holy person Jesus said we are to become once we are "born again" (Be perfect as your Father is perfect).

Their soul reflects God. They are like Him. Not just acting as if they are but they ARE like Him. Which is holy. Not divine beings, but holy where they are partaking in the divine but are not divine beings themselves.

Your belif is that we can not truly be transformed holy ppl but that Jesus sacrifice covers us up but inside, we are still unholy ppl. We both understand and believe we have been redeemed (free gift given) but we believe we can become what we were redeemed to be (true Sons and Daughters of God) where you believe you are redeemed but stay as you are and it is Christ who "covers" you and that is what God sees as holy.

So based on that- you think you go to heaven- with the dirt covered up. We believe we go there actually being holy, cleansed.

If we are saved but have not fully become what Christ redeemed us to be, holy... we will be saved but as though by fire. We will be purified and perfected in God image before we enter heaven because nothing unclean shall enter.

We believe that with that grace, we can transform, not just cover up.

So no, We are not all saints but saints in the making and since it is never over till it's actually over... we can not declare a person a Saint until they have completed running the race.

We are all running the race to perfection. We have been redeemed and now we are running the race towards holiness and perfection and transformation if we do not finish that here, we will finish it through a purification process.

We are saints in the making but what we will become has not yet been revealed. (Cuz we are still in the race.)