Why Hate China?

[Douger]

http://antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=12585

China's continuing crackdown on Tibetan pro-independence protesters is a big, big issue here in San Francisco. Why, just the other day, I was coming out my front door, and there was one of my neighbors – a very nice woman in her fifties, albeit an archetypal limousine liberal, typical of the breed. So typical that she might almost be mistaken for a living, breathing, walking, talking cliché. She hates George W. Bush and the neocons because she's against the (Iraq) war, but she's eager to "liberate" Darfur – and, lately, Tibet. That morning, as she earnestly informed me, she was on her way to a meeting of the Board of Supervisors (our town council) to exhort them to vote for a resolution condemning the Chinese government's actions and calling for "freedom" for Tibet. What she doesn't realize, and doesn't want to know, is that she and the neocons – the very ones who brought us the Iraq war – are united on the Tibet issue. I tried, in vain, to point this out to her, but she just shook her head, cut the conversation short, and was on her way…

 

[joebudda]

Why Hate China?

Because in this age of "fear politics" there needs to be an enemy in order to control the people through fear. And the media is there as a tool for these politics to inform us on what we are to fear.

 

[TheNewWorldMan]

Why Hate China?

Because in this age of "fear politics" there needs to be an enemy in order to control the people through fear. And the media is there as a tool for these politics to inform us on what we are to fear.

Let's not wander from the original point. What China is doing in Tibet and what the Muslims are doing in Sudan is evil. These issues are completely separate from the Iraq invasion (which, for the record, I think was utter stupidity.).

America should try and engage China constructively where possible, but China should also be held to account for its misdeeds.

 

[JohnElias]

Why Hate China?

Because in this age of "fear politics" there needs to be an enemy in order to control the people through fear. And the media is there as a tool for these politics to inform us on what we are to fear.

Why not condemn China? Is their occupation of Tibet not an oppression of human rights and dignity? Are their appalling working conditions not a slap in the face of anybody who believes in human value and dignity? Isn't their borderline slave labor a travesty victimizing a billion fellow humans? Because their callous disregard for this beautiful world is swiftly catapulting them to the forefront in terms of environmental degradation?

Here's to a condemnation of China, and an advocacy of human dignity, right, and value. This is not fear, but concern for my peers.

 

[joebudda]

Why not condemn China? Is their occupation of Tibet not an oppression of human rights and dignity? Are their appalling working conditions not a slap in the face of anybody who believes in human value and dignity? Isn't their borderline slave labor a travesty victimizing a billion fellow humans? Because their callous disregard for this beautiful world is swiftly catapulting them to the forefront in terms of environmental degradation?

Here's to a condemnation of China, and an advocacy of human dignity, right, and value. This is not fear, but concern for my peers.

I do condemn such actions.
But it is not the responsibility for our government to police the world. Thereby forcing our ideals onto others with threats and violence.

The people need to rise up and force the change that they desire.

When will we learn. . .

 

[ArnautDaniel]

China is basically ruled by a fascist regime.

What isn't there to hate about the Chinese regime?

I have no problem with the Chinese people however.

 

[Glaz]

He condemns the "Free Tibet" movement as a neo-con position and if you read far enough into the article, you'll get to a part where he basically states Tibet had it coming and what China does with it is ok. I find that rather hypocritical from a site called "anti-war.com".

 

[JohnElias]

I do condemn such actions.

Then I'm glad, that at least in principle we concur.

But it is not the responsibility for our government to police the world. Thereby forcing our ideals onto others with threats and violence.

Can we agree that political economic pressure placed on China to lift their humanitarian, labor, and environmental standards may be an appropriate action? Their humanitarian and labor standards are primarily harmful to their own citizens, yet it is myopic American consumerism that allows their existent system to flourish. Their environmental disregard affects not only China, but the world as well, you and I included. In our own interest, we should take a less myopic approach towards China and begin to offer incentives towards reducing pollution.

The people need to rise up and force the change that they desire.

When will we realize that the world of our forefathers is dead? When will we realize that countless people are powerless, as power tends to be accumulated in the hands of the few. When will we realize that it may be that only nations such as America can achieve the change that so many Chinese desire. The Chinese aren't allowed to speak on their own behalf, but we can certainly speak for them.

When will we learn. . .

 

[Douger]

He condemns the "Free Tibet" movement as a neo-con position and if you read far enough into the article, you'll get to a part where he basically states Tibet had it coming and what China does with it is ok. I find that rather hypocritical from a site called "anti-war.com".

Thanks for reading the article, sounds like you're the first one to do so.
And thank you for commenting on it, as that was my purpose for this thread, for people to read the article and discuss it.

and if you read far enough into the article, you'll get to a part where he basically states Tibet had it coming and what China does with it is ok. I find that rather hypocritical from a site called "anti-war.com".

If you read Justin Raimondo's columns long enough, you'll notice that a recurring theme is that the US should mind it's own business and let other countries mind there's, and that he often defends the way other countries deal with dissent, seccessionist movements etc..
Sometimes this leads to some surprising conclusions coming from him.
In this matter, I agree with him. The PRC is basically a centrally governed union of nations, and the histories of China and Tibet are intertwined going way back. In light of all this, demanding that Tibet be "free" is a bit unreasonable, especially considering its strategic importance to China.
Aside from that, it is never going to happen, China will never permit it. So why not encourage a constructive plan for the future of the two nations instead of goading China with fantastical demands?

 

[Conspiracy Theory]

They're buying our oil,

They're polluting our air.

They're stealing our nuclear secrets.

 

[JohnElias]

They're buying our oil,

They're polluting our air.

They're stealing our nuclear secrets.

ARRRGH!

 

[AmericanChristian91]

ARRRGH!

And there Communists. The most powerful Communist country in the world since the USSR fell.

 

[ElijahFalling]

Why condemn China?

Because state socialism is incompatable with individual liberty.

 

[JohnElias]

Why condemn China?

Because state socialism is incompatable with individual liberty.

If only China were remotely socialist.

 

[Wednesday]

Why condemn China?

Because state socialism is incompatable with individual liberty.

Sweden!

 

[ArnautDaniel]

How are the Chinese "communists" in anything other than name?

The Chinese system is much closer to fascism.

 

[Glaz]

In this matter, I agree with him. The PRC is basically a centrally governed union of nations, and the histories of China and Tibet are intertwined going way back. In light of all this, demanding that Tibet be "free" is a bit unreasonable, especially considering its strategic importance to China.

I dislike the idea of using history as a justification for aggression; where does it end? In Chinas case, they saw that strategic importance you spoke of and used history as propaganda to the world at large.

That we're going to have to live with it, I agree, but I think in time China will leave on their own terms.

 

[NeTrips]

They're buying our oil,

They're polluting our air.

They're stealing our nuclear secrets.

But we love their eggrolls and crab rangoon!

 

[JpNGrL147]

Just curious, What is the percentage of Tibetans who _want_ independence from the PRC?

Low, as far as I can tell. What does Tibet have to gain from independence from China? It becomes another small country that will be ignored by the rest of the world. As a region in China,(Which is far from Communist. Stalin and Mao are rolling in their graves at what China is.)it can benefit from China's prosperity, and, it has a powerful security force to protect it. The leaders of this independence movement are supporters of the Dali Lama, a leader of a backwards Theocratic government.

Now, I am not saying that things under China are rosey and perfect, they aren't. China, needs to allow more freedoms in Tibet, of course. Also, before I wrap this little package up, I want to say, isn't it funny how the cries for independence have only stirred up in the face of the Olympics? Seems like a cry for attention by the Dali Lama's little radicals.

 

[ArnautDaniel]

Just curious, What is the percentage of Tibetans who _want_ independence from the PRC?

Low, as far as I can tell. What does Tibet have to gain from independence from China? It becomes another small country that will be ignored by the rest of the world. As a region in China,(Which is far from Communist. Stalin and Mao are rolling in their graves at what China is.)it can benefit from China's prosperity, and, it has a powerful security force to protect it. The leaders of this independence movement are supporters of the Dali Lama, a leader of a backwards Theocratic government.

Now, I am not saying that things under China are rosey and perfect, they aren't. China, needs to allow more freedoms in Tibet, of course. Also, before I wrap this little package up, I want to say, isn't it funny how the cries for independence have only stirred up in the face of the Olympics? Seems like a cry for attention by the Dali Lama's little radicals.

The problem is that the Chinese appear to be moving Han Chinese folks into Tibet to run things (i.e. take all the higher level jobs), leaving the Tibetans as a permanent underclass.

So the Chinese would have all the professional jobs, and the Tibetans can clean their houses.