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Why fossil fuels are key to lifting billions of people out of poverty

Vambram

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History has shown time and time again that fossil fuels and an abundance of energy are vitally important for a robust economy that benefits everyone.
 

A2SG

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History has shown time and time again that fossil fuels and an abundance of energy are vitally important for a robust economy that benefits everyone.
According to the Heritage Foundation. Conservative propaganda.

-- A2SG, see, I can do the dismiss the source without considering the content thing too.....
 
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Aaron112

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History has shown time and time again that fossil fuels and an abundance of energy are vitally important for a robust economy that benefits everyone.
For the poor honest folk living in any country, hasn't history shown that they are oppressed ,not helped, more than not ?
The things that are making the most money are designed and marketed every day, every year, to make the greedy rich richer, not to help the poor except when it is play-acting for show/ for votes.
 
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Fantine

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Developing countries need energy. The sources don't matter.
There is an amazing organization, Solar Under the Sun, which sends missionaries to install simple electricity connections and solar panels to very modest homes. This allows families to earn better livings by using power tools or sewing machines to start micro-businesses, children to do homework at night, etc. Batteries for storage are housed and offered for free in churches or community centers.
One by one, desperately poor villages thrive, at a price ($0) they can afford.
No infrastructure needed. Each home is off the grid. There is no grid!
Generous hearts, innovative solutions. Thanks to the Presbyterian Church.
 
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timewerx

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History has shown time and time again that fossil fuels and an abundance of energy are vitally important for a robust economy that benefits everyone.

NOPE.

Americans hate the only solution to poverty - better distribution of wealth as other more civilized capitalist nations have been doing.
 
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Vambram

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NOPE.

Americans hate the only solution to poverty - better distribution of wealth as other more civilized capitalist nations have been doing.
Got any examples of that happening in other nations?
 

Aryeh Jay

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NOPE.

Americans hate the only solution to poverty - better distribution of wealth as other more civilized capitalist nations have been doing.

Well, as an American, I have absolutely no problem working hard to make the money i make and then having some people's council take my money and give it to the non working class who complains about how much more money in have in comparison to their Bohemian lifestyle.
 
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Fantine

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The most grueling jobs are often the lowest paid, and the people who work in those jobs often have broken bodies by the time they're 50.
And, in well-documented statistics on growing income inequality, we have seen the differences grow.
I'm retired, but I always took paid vacation and sick leave, medical and life insurance, and pension benefits as givens, but here in the US many workers don't have those things, especially in red right-to-work (for pennies) states.
Yes, some people don't work, but salary and wage disparity have gotten completely out of hand.
 
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Hazelelponi

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NOPE.

Americans hate the only solution to poverty - better distribution of wealth as other more civilized capitalist nations have been doing.


Redistribution of wealth is an evil from the pit of hell. It really is. Jesus told you something, the poor will always be with us.

Always, and that's okay. There's no utopia this side of heaven and never will be.

Literally the closest we will ever, in our human experience, come to heaven on this earth is by completely submitting our life to Christ in every way. Certainly, the more who do so in any society the better it is.

Of course I'm just arguing a point about attempting to immanitize the eschalon, not about all we are with and in Christ Jesus when we believe in Him for our salvation.

But when it comes to the best this world has - heaven on earth is submission to Christ, it's nothing like heaven, heaven where every tear will be wiped from our eyes and we will never know pain or disease again, but it can be decent and positive for most within the given society.

In a Christian society we all know this instinctively, because we are submitted to Christ's way of life, however imperfectly each of us has to offer their lives to Christ....

... Therefore we order our societal structure to reflect that submission.

In our society here in the United States we have gone for capitalism with some protectionism built in.

We don't follow "civilized societies" because we follow Christ. We have seen the end of those who think they can create something utopian, societies once great now destroyed by evil ideas.

We are a people created in the image of God.

Which means we are in fact a very creative people. Like Adam we enjoy gardening - it's fun and being industrious and creating beauty is satisfying to the soul.

In other words, we need to work. We don't need hand outs, we need the fight of survival. We need the purpose - because we were born with the drive to create and do - and take care of and protect.

A man is ashamed if he can't provide for his family. Men created in the image of God feel a deep sense of responsibility for his wife and children, his parents in their old age, and even his neighbors.

This is then, all men, since all are created in His image, though we have fallen and can misuse the gifts, we still have them.

In our society governing is a responsibility over the nations citizens, to provide the best environment for the greatest amount of citizens to use the gifts God gave them and do their best in life - and hopefully for the greatest number of them to do well.

We don't want to have an environment where only a handful can thrive, it's about bringing the most up as possible by giving everyone opportunity and then, following the precepts our way of life was built on, love of God and neighbor.

You get the best possible society this side of heaven that way. You take from no one, everyone gets to do their personal best in life while enjoying the fruits of their labor to the extent they can and want to.

If we need people giving to the poor more, we need more preachers on the pulpit preaching being a cheerful giver.

We don't need preachers preaching about government needing to steal people's hard-earned pay. I think such a preacher is utterly worthless.

People need work, not handouts. A man that can go out and kill a deer to feed his family is a far happier man than the one you just gave food stamps to, stealing from the one to give to another doesn't give the man a sense of accomplishment from a job well done.

Yes, we believe in some few social programs, but you'll never solve societies problems with them, and you will take away peoples dignity when you over use them, and there's nothing Christian about that.

Bring back our manufacturing... That will help solve societies problems. Stop depending on our enemies for our national security needs - never ever a good idea to do that.

Handouts? No. There never was a real life robin hood, and if there had been he would not be a saint in God's eyes.

Let our men work. Let God's people give in charity. Let us do our best, as a people created in the image of God.

The OP is correct. Cheaper energy is positive for society; electric, heating, driving to work etc all cost money, it's the most benefit to the poorest in society to keep these costs as low as possible.

This way the poor doesn't have to worry about staying warm in the winter, or having their electricity cut off when they need electricity for the oxygen tank. You know?

Low energy costs is very very positive for the most amount of people possible, while not looking like some kind of a handout - thereby preserving dignity of the poorest.
 
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BCP1928

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Redistribution of wealth is an evil from the pit of hell. It really is. Jesus told you something, the poor will always be with us.
Right, and redistributing wealth by allowing working class Americans to have more power in the labor market is the most evil of all, no doubt.

But back to the OP: Why fossil fuels are key to extracting more wealth from third world countries.
 
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Hazelelponi

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Right, and redistributing wealth by allowing working class Americans to have more power in the labor market is the most evil of all, no doubt.

But back to the OP: Why fossil fuels are key to extracting more wealth from third world countries.

We have our own fossil fuels, thanks.

All our government has to do is use it. (It's why we like Trump, one reason anyway .. drill baby drill).
 
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BCP1928

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We have our own fossil fuels, thanks.

All our government has to do is use it. (It's why we like Trump, one reason anyway .. drill baby drill).
To extract more wealth from third world countries. Or sell it to those who do.
 
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Hazelelponi

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To extract more wealth from third world countries. Or sell it to those who do.

That's what we are fighting with the elites for.

We prefer following Christ than war mongers who destroy.

Therefore, drill baby drill... As Trump says. We have our own nations fossil fuels.
 
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Pommer

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Fantine

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As I said, there are now many forms of energy--oil, solar, wind.
Are we helping Africa and South Asia by promoting a high cost fuel that will leave them in debt---when they have ideal conditions for solar power?
Or will that exploit those nations and billions of needy people?
We see technology missionaries "really" helping the third world with small solar home installations, solar powered calculators and tablets for students.
People first--profits second. The golden rule.
 
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Nithavela

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I think that fossil fuels are a great way of lifting people out of poverty. Once their home countries are too hot to sustain life, they can flee into the western world and enjoy a raised standard of living there.

Drill baby drill!
 
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ThatRobGuy

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I can't get the link to load, but I'm assuming that this article is making reference to the hundreds of millions of people in other countries/regions who haven't yet gotten to enjoy the windfall that came with fossil fuel industrialization like we have?


In that sense, yes, getting access to those things (that we all accessed for the past 125 years, and built economic powerhouses with) would immediately lift some regions in South America and Africa out of poverty by taking them from their pre-industrial age to the industrial age.

It has been something of a hypocritical/selfish ask on the part of UN climate organizations and advocacy groups.

"Hey, you countries/regions that just started getting your economies off the ground... I know you see all this other great stuff the rest of our countries built for the past century on the back of fossil fuels and were thinking of doing the same...well, shucks, gee whiz, you're just a bit a too late to the party, now that we've already built all of our cool stuff with it and used to proceeds to invest billions into possible replacements, we've decided that oil and coal are bad now, so you're going to have to focus on renewables now despite some of you only getting roads and cars in the 1990's.


However, I don't know that "lifting people out of poverty as quickly/cheaply as possible" is the sole metric to be relied on when having the conversation about countervailing interests and preferred energy forms.

By that logic, giving more people access to opioids would be the quickest/cheapest way to lift the largest number of people out of current back pain (if we're not going to factor in long term consequences into the discussion)


To me, I still think nuclear is where we should be focusing our energy (pun intended), both for ourselves, and for any impoverished countries who may need a little foreign assistance and aid to get to up speed.

It wouldn't be as quick/cheap as just having them setting up fossil fuel plants, but I think it strikes a good balance. It'll still be quicker and easier than trying to set them up on renewables, and it'll be cleaner than having them getting a bunch of fossil fuel plants stood up.
 
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BCP1928

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I can't get the link to load, but I'm assuming that this article is making reference to the hundreds of millions of people in other countries/regions who haven't yet gotten to enjoy the windfall that came with fossil fuel industrialization like we have?
And they won't, either. They will increasingly rely on fossil fuel imports to enable extractive industries and monocrop agriculture and the wealth created will continue to flow out. That's the plan, Stan.
 
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Hazelelponi

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The USA is currently the largest producer of petroleum, yet we sell ~3.6M bbl daily…why?
We cannot use all of what we produce: here’s a YT video that might be a good resource for possible answers.


We also bought 377 million barrels in 2023 from OPEC countries too.

We can produce enough to keep the costs low for the products we use. (Supply and demand) And then not buy from other countries and sell to countries who might could use some.

If we cut regulatory requirements that were unjustly added to the American people and use what we produce we would have jobs and less expensive energy.
 
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comana

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We also bought 377 million barrels in 2023 from OPEC countries too.

We can produce enough to keep the costs low for the products we use. (Supply and demand) And then not buy from other countries and sell to countries who might could use some.

If we cut regulatory requirements that were unjustly added to the American people and use what we produce we would have jobs and less expensive energy.
Who is we? The oil corporations are doing what is best for their profits. They are drilling as much as they want and producing as much as they want. Importing and exporting as much as they want. It is not about we, it is about them.
 
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