Why faith alone?

[PeaceJoyLove]

--Faith is action.
--Therefore one is not saved by faith only THEN does action.
--Faith/action comes BEFORE salvation.

I am a firm believer that faith without works is dead. How have you ever perceived that that i said anything differently from what I wrote?

My point...there is no such thing as two bank accounts ...one for faith and one for works to gain 'credit' or "brownie points" with God.

 

[TheSeabass]

I am a firm believer that faith without works is dead. How have you ever perceived that that i said anything differently from what I wrote?

My point...there is no such thing as two bank accounts ...one for faith and one for works to gain 'credit' or "brownie points" with God.

Your post #113

"....works are not the cause of salvation; works are the evidence of salvation."

Is this you saying one is saved FIRST by faith only THEN AFTER one is saved by faith only one does works as evidence of being saved?

 

[PeaceJoyLove]

Your post #113

"....works are not the cause of salvation; works are the evidence of salvation."

Is this you saying one is saved FIRST by faith only THEN AFTER one is saved by faith only one does works as evidence of being saved?

The person I was replying to was implying that works account without faith, I say you cannot separate the two...One without the other is dead...which my statement you quoted was meant to implicate.

 

[Wordkeeper]

James speaks to - works are not the cause of salvation; works are the evidence of salvation.

...else all who do good works and do not believe in God would receive HIS promises...which we know is contrary to what The Bible says. What gets us the promises of God? Faith/belief...which is the causation evidenced by the works of a regenerated heart...that knows God is God and trusts Him...and sinful nature dies. All else is unbelief. All the works in the world will not bring us into God's favour without faith...for faith results in a life of obedience to Christ...

Wrong. James does NOT say works are a result of salvation. He says faith alone cannot save:

He says salvation is by works:

James 2
14What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him? 15If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food,16and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that? 17Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.

He says if a person says he is loyal to God, then that confession, that pledge of loyalty, works with his works, and is proved, confirmed by his works, perfected, fulfilled:

James 2
22You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected; 23and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD,AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS,” and he was called the friend of God.

 

[Wordkeeper]

The person I was replying to was implying that works account without faith, I say you cannot separate the two...One without the other is dead...which my statement you quoted was meant to implicate.

Of course you can separate the two, as the hypocrite quoted here proves and which James rebukes:

James 2
14What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him? 15If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food,16and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that? 17Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.

If you have a righteous ledger, it needs to have both: your public confession that Jesus is your Master and evidence of your servanthood. Else it's just lip service.

 

[Wordkeeper]

I am a firm believer that faith without works is dead. How have you ever perceived that that i said anything differently from what I wrote?

My point...there is no such thing as two bank accounts ...one for faith and one for works to gain 'credit' or "brownie points" with God.

No one claimed there are two bank accounts.

 

[Wordkeeper]

The Spirit of Truth is my teacher, as He is for each of us who believe "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself;"

Abraham did not stagger in unbelief (he believed the promises of God) for he had a faith that was made strong...didn't doubt God was God...fully persuaded that what HE promised HE was able to do...that is faith. That kind of faith is what counts us as righteous. That is what counted Abraham as righteous.

It is that kind of faith that causes us to know that the same spirit that rose Jesus' body from the grave is giving (new) Life to us (IF we believe it can be so because all things are possible with God, though impossible for man), removing that heart of flesh and makes us to walk by HIS spirit in that newness of Life. Transformed, that our works of faith need not to be thought about and strived for because HIS spirit lives and causes it to be so...IF IF IF we believe it is possible because HE is God.

Faith brings Truth revealed and a Life hidden in Christ..."no longer I that live, but Christ in me..."

Faith strengthend (increased by God's grace because we see the bigger picture)...faith grows when we believe HE is the great I AM and that all things work together for our good. HE has grown my faith because I believed and KNOW He is God of all and HE causes all things to be possible in attaining the promises of God. HE has transformed my heart of flesh and caused me to know Him, intimately and to Trust HIM in every thing with all my heart, mind body and soul/life. That is what counts us as righteous...we are 'fully persuaded that what HE hat promised', not any works done out of the flesh.

Abraham took no thought (did not stagger in unbelief) just acted because of his faith...not because he thought it would fill up his 'bank' of righteous deeds. Thought has to do with the mind and does not come from faith for what the flesh thinks and what God desires of us are contrary to each other.

Would you take your son and attempt to sacrifice him on an altar just to get brownie points with God? Or would it have to be something God desired and you believed Him? This example given in scripture shows the difference between faith and works, though faith without works is dead. Faith causes 'different' works than the mind thinks...and that is the difference between flesh and spirit...our actions that come because of faith, not in the reverse.

Romans 4:20-25 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
20 and at the promise of God did not stagger in unbelief, but was strengthened in faith, having given glory to God,

21 and having been fully persuaded that what He hath promised He is able also to do:

22 wherefore also it was reckoned to him to righteousness.

23 And it was not written on his account alone, that it was reckoned to him,

24 but also on ours, to whom it is about to be reckoned -- to us believing on Him who did raise up Jesus our Lord out of the dead,

What are you trying to say?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

No one claimed there are two bank accounts.

There's the most important, and mostly unknown,
secret account......

where moth and rust cannot affect, and no thief can steal....

 

[PeaceJoyLove]

What are you trying to say?

Never mind, you are not hearing.

 

[PeaceJoyLove]

No one claimed there are two bank accounts.

My apologies. It is the faith and the works that are two in your count.

No. Loyalty is the bank account. Belief gets you a plus count. Works gets you a plus count.

 

[PeaceJoyLove]

If you have a righteous ledger, it needs to have both: your public confession that Jesus is your Master and evidence of your servanthood. Else it's just lip service.

My point exactly! Can't have one without the other. Faith without works is dead. That is what I have proclaimed through this whole discourse.

When you separated the two, it sounded like you were saying that works will get you brownie points and that faith was not relevant, but if you have faith, too, then you get extra points. I see faith and works as ONE inseparable pair.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

My point exactly! Can't have one without the other. Faith without works is dead. That is what I have proclaimed through this whole discourse.

When you separated the two, it sounded like you were saying that works will get you brownie points and that faith was not relevant, but if you have faith, too, then you get extra points. I see faith and works as ONE inseparable pair.

The whole idea/ conversation/ goal (perhaps)/ etc etc etc through the centuries seem rather pointless ---- who is benefitted? Who cares ? Is anyone helped ?

Look eagerly at Jesus followers in the New Testament - see what they did, what Jesus taught them.

The very first thing required of them.

(if someone does not get past that, willingly and joyously, then <<poof! >> they won't make it anyway --- and if they do get past that, they won't wonder about all the nonsense today's arguments entail/ involve) ....