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Why evolution should not be a religious issue

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a post by Alan Smithee
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I could say new discoveries like ones from the Mt St Helen eruption "falsify" your claims about an old Earth. That would be overstating my case.

Actually it would simply be wrong. Mount Saint Helen's is a Creationist PRATT*. Everything claimed by professional YECs and parroted by their followers - few if any of whom have any background in geology - have all been addressed and debunked.

The mud and ash in Spirit Lake didn't create anything resembling the Grand Canyon or geological strata (other than mud and ash sediment). The dating claims are because dishonest charlatans like "Steve Austin" used P-Ar which cannot date anything younger than 2 million years accurately. It would be like "timing" a 50 yard dash with a calendar and then claiming clocks and calendars didn't work.

*Point Refuted A Thousand Times
 
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a post by Alan Smithee
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Their assumption is Mt Everest is the same then as now.

"Assumption"! Poof! {smoke clears}

Nope, the evidence is still there.... and remains unaddressed.

They've found oceans of water 620 miles below the surface,

No they have not. What one study claims is that there is an enormous amount of water stored chemically in woodringite right around the mantle. It's not an "ocean" or "oceans".

fossils on mountain tops,

Fossils aren't found on mountain tops, fossils comprise the sediments for some mountain peaks. On Everest, for example, some chunks and bits of crinoids and brachiopods are found - evidence of the orogeny not resulting from mere settling - but there are no modern marine fossils and they're not just sitting around on the surface.

The Grand Canyon would qualify as a clue from the flood.

Only if one knows nothing about geology or physics. For instance, explain how the Flood created this formation:
Grand_Canyon_Horse_Shoe_Bend_MC.jpg
 
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a post by Alan Smithee
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I'm sure a global flood would leave clues.

It would have. And here's a list of things we observe that it would not have left.
--------------------------
How does a Flood explain subaerial igneous deposits?
How does a Flood address all the heat that would be produced by the formation of limestone?
How does the Flood explain trace fossils?
How does the Flood explain faunal succession?
How does the Flood explain 60,000 varve layers in Lake Suigetsu and hundreds of thousands of layers in ice cores?
How does the Flood explain glacial erosion and deposits?
How does Flood explain eolian deposits and paleosols?
How does the Flood explain meanders like Horseshoe bend?
How does the Flood explain the different states of erosion exhibited by different mountain ranges?
How does the Flood explain batholiths?
 
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Vaccine

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<Staff Edit>

Not only can I make the claims. I can explain them. You will have to rely on sites that openly admit that they do not allow their workers to use the scientific method.

Which site are you talking about? Also, can you cite your source?
 
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Vaccine

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Yes, it would.



I have not done so. Your lack of education in this matter is not a debating weapon.



Oh my, so many errors in only one paragraph. You need to learn the definition of the terms that you are trying to use. And your WAG's are refuted by the evidence out there. Mine are supported by them. And no, the Grand Canyon is not evidence of the flood. You need something more than handwaving to have evidence.

Not much of sustance to comment on there. Seems it would be easy to explain all the errors or articulate an argument.
So far it's been accusing me of being wrong merely by asking a question, asserting I don't understand something merely because it's possible different conclusion exists, and literature bluffing.
Seriously, what motivates an atheist to post here? I hope it isn't so low as just to insult people.
 
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Which site are you talking about? Also, can you cite your source?
"By definition, no apparent, perceived or claimed evidence in any field, including history and chronology, can be valid if it contradicts the scriptural record."
Statement of Faith

They state outright that you aren't allowed to even consider that creationism is wrong. This means they can't do science since science requires a null hypothesis.
 
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Loudmouth

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Not much of sustance to comment on there. Seems it would be easy to explain all the errors or articulate an argument.
So far it's been accusing me of being wrong merely by asking a question, asserting I don't understand something merely because it's possible different conclusion exists, and literature bluffing.
Seriously, what motivates an atheist to post here? I hope it isn't so low as just to insult people.

Just because different conclusions exist doesn't mean that they are well supported or even informed. Some people still think that the world is flat. Does the simple fact that these people exist give credence to their claims?

The picture of the gooseneck meander in a previous post should be enough. A raging flood can not produce that feature. A raging flood is like an out of control train, it can only go straight. If it hits something that doesn't erode, then the flood waters widen and go around either side of the obstruction. Flood waters don't slow down, make a 90 degree turn, and then start flowing in the other direction. Doesn't happen.

If you want to see what raging floodwaters would do, look no futher than the Channeled Scablands in the US NW. That's what the entire face of the Earth should look like if a global flood is even close to true, but it doesn't. What you have in the Channeled Scablands is a braided chain of parallel streams that widened during the flood. You don't see a single stream that meanders all over the place.

J-ext1.JPG


We could also discuss the Coconino sandstones which are fossilized wind blown sand dunes. How do you get a sand dune desert in the middle of a flood? Those are just two off the top of my head.
 
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TagliatelliMonster

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Functional organization that you would readily classify as evidence of an ID were the discussion about an entirely different subject.

That's yet another assertion that you can't demonstrate. At all.

What did I expect? I expect the exact reaction as always-disbelief after a declaration of an inability to see.

What is asserted without evidence, can be safely rejected without evidence.
"it's obvious", is not an argument.
 
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Trevor Woodsta

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As many of my brothers have been telling me that GOD is an evolutionist for so long I decided to write an update on Genesis 1 based on a science book of facts. I thought it would answer the title of this post:-

THE NEW AND UPDATED GENESIS FOR MODERN TIMES

In the beginning the scientists think that matter was compressed in a tiny dot. And the dot exploded with a big bang to form the universe. The explosion formed a fire ball and out of the fire ball, which was a big mess, the galaxies started to order themselves.

And the scientist said, "A random spinning cloud of gas and dust formed planets revolving around a star which was called the sun". And they thought this was very awesome. And there was evening and there was morning the first day.

And man said, “A primordial soup developed and out of the primordial soup life emerged. And suddenly the first few forms of life appeared in the water that had developed from the cloud of gas and dust, and in the water the first forms of life spontaneously burst forth”. This life they called blue green algae and bacteria that then started forming into higher forms over eons of time. And they saw that it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning the second day.

And man said, “And the algae and bacteria emerged into worm like animals which were able to swim a little”. And this was very good. And life developed in the oceans over vast eons of time. The fish started off without jaws and then evolved jaws later and everything else they needed to be fish. And this was called the age of fish. And this was seen as very good. And there was evening and there was morning the third day.

And man said, “And then some fish crawled out of the water. Over eons of time they grew lungs and whatever else they needed so that they could breath and survive in the life giving atmosphere that evolved out of the cloud of gas and dust. And this is how the land creatures came about”. This was seen as very very good. And there was evening and there was morning the forth day.

And man said, “And the plants evolved on the land that became food for the land animals like insects beetles and giant dragon flies. Out of all this the first reptiles appeared which included the dinosaurs. These reptiles after many eons of time grew feathers and everything else they needed and finally took to the air to became the birds. But suddenly a huge rock hit the earth that wiped out all these reptiles”. This catastrophe probably caused them to be covered in sedimentary rock layers as fossils. And there was evening and there was morning the fifth day.

And man said, “And then over eons of time the mammals started to come about which eventually formed into the hominids”. The experts believe the hominids developed into modern humans. Man began stupid and then became clever as his brain got bigger. He also rose up from all fours to walk on his hind legs and his animal grunts became sophisticated languages as mutations randomly and by chance increased intelligence and information. (Man is much better now than his ancestors were. Then he built pyramids and was an engineering genius but ate his neighbors heart for supper. Back then they were wild and brutal and killed each other by the dime and dozen, but modern man is very loving and does good as his evolutionary past has been shed). And this was very good. And there was evening and there was morning the sixth day.

And so the universe was formed like this over eons of time and was all very good. And then they took a vacation because of all imagination and thinking they had done.

At the time when humans had evolved there was no marriage and there was no religion. So they developed marriage between a man and a woman because it fitted with the nature of things as water flows downhill. As they evolved in their thinking they decided that their idea of marriage was wrong so they started marrying two men, or a woman and a woman. And they said this was very good and loving, and blessed GOD for it.

And man said, “GOD used death, destruction, suffering, wars, sorrow, mutations, survival of the fittest to create His perfect world. And it was so. He said, “Death was in the world for eons of time before Adam ever sinned”, and he praised GOD for it, marveling at His creative power in how He submitted Himself to chaos, chance and time.

And so man created GOD in his own sinful image. He believed a lie at the cost of GOD'S perfect revelation. He said “we can't believe that poetic fairy-tale” and went off to write his own. And he gloried in his cleverness and progressiveness in all his fake science and delusions of his own mind.

This is the literal, factual, account of the generations of the universe in the day it came about, in the day mankind suppressed the knowledge of GOD. Claiming himself to be wise he became a fool and exchanged the glory of the immortal GOD for anything and everything else, and through this made sure that no mention of GOD came into his public schools to corrupt little children. And the Church embraced it and promoted it and gave glory to the scientist. And so the arm of the atheist was strengthened and sexual immorality flourished and holy marriage is used as a means to get at and mock GOD. Beyond sad!
 
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Jimmy D

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As many of my brothers have been telling me that GOD is an evolutionist for so long I decided to write an update on Genesis 1 based on a science book of facts. I thought it would answer the title of this post:-

THE NEW AND UPDATED GENESIS FOR MODERN TIMES

In the beginning the scientists think that matter was compressed in a tiny dot. And the dot exploded with a big bang to form the universe. The explosion formed a fire ball and out of the fire ball, which was a big mess, the galaxies started to order themselves.

And the scientist said, "A random spinning cloud of gas and dust formed planets revolving around a star which was called the sun". And they thought this was very awesome. And there was evening and there was morning the first day.

And man said, “A primordial soup developed and out of the primordial soup life emerged. And suddenly the first few forms of life appeared in the water that had developed from the cloud of gas and dust, and in the water the first forms of life spontaneously burst forth”. This life they called blue green algae and bacteria that then started forming into higher forms over eons of time. And they saw that it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning the second day.

And man said, “And the algae and bacteria emerged into worm like animals which were able to swim a little”. And this was very good. And life developed in the oceans over vast eons of time. The fish started off without jaws and then evolved jaws later and everything else they needed to be fish. And this was called the age of fish. And this was seen as very good. And there was evening and there was morning the third day.

And man said, “And then some fish crawled out of the water. Over eons of time they grew lungs and whatever else they needed so that they could breath and survive in the life giving atmosphere that evolved out of the cloud of gas and dust. And this is how the land creatures came about”. This was seen as very very good. And there was evening and there was morning the forth day.

And man said, “And the plants evolved on the land that became food for the land animals like insects beetles and giant dragon flies. Out of all this the first reptiles appeared which included the dinosaurs. These reptiles after many eons of time grew feathers and everything else they needed and finally took to the air to became the birds. But suddenly a huge rock hit the earth that wiped out all these reptiles”. This catastrophe probably caused them to be covered in sedimentary rock layers as fossils. And there was evening and there was morning the fifth day.

And man said, “And then over eons of time the mammals started to come about which eventually formed into the hominids”. The experts believe the hominids developed into modern humans. Man began stupid and then became clever as his brain got bigger. He also rose up from all fours to walk on his hind legs and his animal grunts became sophisticated languages as mutations randomly and by chance increased intelligence and information. (Man is much better now than his ancestors were. Then he built pyramids and was an engineering genius but ate his neighbors heart for supper. Back then they were wild and brutal and killed each other by the dime and dozen, but modern man is very loving and does good as his evolutionary past has been shed). And this was very good. And there was evening and there was morning the sixth day.

And so the universe was formed like this over eons of time and was all very good. And then they took a vacation because of all imagination and thinking they had done.

At the time when humans had evolved there was no marriage and there was no religion. So they developed marriage between a man and a woman because it fitted with the nature of things as water flows downhill. As they evolved in their thinking they decided that their idea of marriage was wrong so they started marrying two men, or a woman and a woman. And they said this was very good and loving, and blessed GOD for it.

And man said, “GOD used death, destruction, suffering, wars, sorrow, mutations, survival of the fittest to create His perfect world. And it was so. He said, “Death was in the world for eons of time before Adam ever sinned”, and he praised GOD for it, marveling at His creative power in how He submitted Himself to chaos, chance and time.

And so man created GOD in his own sinful image. He believed a lie at the cost of GOD'S perfect revelation. He said “we can't believe that poetic fairy-tale” and went off to write his own. And he gloried in his cleverness and progressiveness in all his fake science and delusions of his own mind.

This is the literal, factual, account of the generations of the universe in the day it came about, in the day mankind suppressed the knowledge of GOD. Claiming himself to be wise he became a fool and exchanged the glory of the immortal GOD for anything and everything else, and through this made sure that no mention of GOD came into his public schools to corrupt little children. And the Church embraced it and promoted it and gave glory to the scientist. And so the arm of the atheist was strengthened and sexual immorality flourished and holy marriage is used as a means to get at and mock GOD. Beyond sad!

Not quite as pithy as the original. :(
 
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a post by Alan Smithee
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As many of my brothers have been telling me that GOD is an evolutionist for so long I decided to write an update on Genesis 1 based on a science book of facts. I thought it would answer the title of this post:-

THE NEW AND UPDATED GENESIS FOR MODERN TIMES

In the beginning the scientists think that matter was compressed in a tiny dot. And the dot exploded with a big bang to form the universe. The explosion formed a fire ball and out of the fire ball, which was a big mess, the galaxies started to order themselves.

And the scientist said, "A random spinning cloud of gas and dust formed planets revolving around a star which was called the sun". And they thought this was very awesome. And there was evening and there was morning the first day.

And man said, “A primordial soup developed and out of the primordial soup life emerged. And suddenly the first few forms of life appeared in the water that had developed from the cloud of gas and dust, and in the water the first forms of life spontaneously burst forth”. This life they called blue green algae and bacteria that then started forming into higher forms over eons of time. And they saw that it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning the second day.

And man said, “And the algae and bacteria emerged into worm like animals which were able to swim a little”. And this was very good. And life developed in the oceans over vast eons of time. The fish started off without jaws and then evolved jaws later and everything else they needed to be fish. And this was called the age of fish. And this was seen as very good. And there was evening and there was morning the third day.

And man said, “And then some fish crawled out of the water. Over eons of time they grew lungs and whatever else they needed so that they could breath and survive in the life giving atmosphere that evolved out of the cloud of gas and dust. And this is how the land creatures came about”. This was seen as very very good. And there was evening and there was morning the forth day.

And man said, “And the plants evolved on the land that became food for the land animals like insects beetles and giant dragon flies. Out of all this the first reptiles appeared which included the dinosaurs. These reptiles after many eons of time grew feathers and everything else they needed and finally took to the air to became the birds. But suddenly a huge rock hit the earth that wiped out all these reptiles”. This catastrophe probably caused them to be covered in sedimentary rock layers as fossils. And there was evening and there was morning the fifth day.

And man said, “And then over eons of time the mammals started to come about which eventually formed into the hominids”. The experts believe the hominids developed into modern humans. Man began stupid and then became clever as his brain got bigger. He also rose up from all fours to walk on his hind legs and his animal grunts became sophisticated languages as mutations randomly and by chance increased intelligence and information. (Man is much better now than his ancestors were. Then he built pyramids and was an engineering genius but ate his neighbors heart for supper. Back then they were wild and brutal and killed each other by the dime and dozen, but modern man is very loving and does good as his evolutionary past has been shed). And this was very good. And there was evening and there was morning the sixth day.

And so the universe was formed like this over eons of time and was all very good. And then they took a vacation because of all imagination and thinking they had done.

At the time when humans had evolved there was no marriage and there was no religion. So they developed marriage between a man and a woman because it fitted with the nature of things as water flows downhill. As they evolved in their thinking they decided that their idea of marriage was wrong so they started marrying two men, or a woman and a woman. And they said this was very good and loving, and blessed GOD for it.

And man said, “GOD used death, destruction, suffering, wars, sorrow, mutations, survival of the fittest to create His perfect world. And it was so. He said, “Death was in the world for eons of time before Adam ever sinned”, and he praised GOD for it, marveling at His creative power in how He submitted Himself to chaos, chance and time.

And so man created GOD in his own sinful image. He believed a lie at the cost of GOD'S perfect revelation. He said “we can't believe that poetic fairy-tale” and went off to write his own. And he gloried in his cleverness and progressiveness in all his fake science and delusions of his own mind.

This is the literal, factual, account of the generations of the universe in the day it came about, in the day mankind suppressed the knowledge of GOD. Claiming himself to be wise he became a fool and exchanged the glory of the immortal GOD for anything and everything else, and through this made sure that no mention of GOD came into his public schools to corrupt little children. And the Church embraced it and promoted it and gave glory to the scientist. And so the arm of the atheist was strengthened and sexual immorality flourished and holy marriage is used as a means to get at and mock GOD. Beyond sad!

tl;dr

I also suspect that post is plagiarized.
 
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Loudmouth

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As many of my brothers have been telling me that GOD is an evolutionist for so long I decided to write an update on Genesis 1 based on a science book of facts. I thought it would answer the title of this post:-

THE NEW AND UPDATED GENESIS FOR MODERN TIMES

In the beginning the scientists think that matter was compressed in a tiny dot. And the dot exploded with a big bang to form the universe. The explosion formed a fire ball and out of the fire ball, which was a big mess, the galaxies started to order themselves.

And the scientist said, "A random spinning cloud of gas and dust formed planets revolving around a star which was called the sun". And they thought this was very awesome. And there was evening and there was morning the first day.

And man said, “A primordial soup developed and out of the primordial soup life emerged. And suddenly the first few forms of life appeared in the water that had developed from the cloud of gas and dust, and in the water the first forms of life spontaneously burst forth”. This life they called blue green algae and bacteria that then started forming into higher forms over eons of time. And they saw that it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning the second day.

And man said, “And the algae and bacteria emerged into worm like animals which were able to swim a little”. And this was very good. And life developed in the oceans over vast eons of time. The fish started off without jaws and then evolved jaws later and everything else they needed to be fish. And this was called the age of fish. And this was seen as very good. And there was evening and there was morning the third day.

And man said, “And then some fish crawled out of the water. Over eons of time they grew lungs and whatever else they needed so that they could breath and survive in the life giving atmosphere that evolved out of the cloud of gas and dust. And this is how the land creatures came about”. This was seen as very very good. And there was evening and there was morning the forth day.

And man said, “And the plants evolved on the land that became food for the land animals like insects beetles and giant dragon flies. Out of all this the first reptiles appeared which included the dinosaurs. These reptiles after many eons of time grew feathers and everything else they needed and finally took to the air to became the birds. But suddenly a huge rock hit the earth that wiped out all these reptiles”. This catastrophe probably caused them to be covered in sedimentary rock layers as fossils. And there was evening and there was morning the fifth day.

And man said, “And then over eons of time the mammals started to come about which eventually formed into the hominids”. The experts believe the hominids developed into modern humans. Man began stupid and then became clever as his brain got bigger. He also rose up from all fours to walk on his hind legs and his animal grunts became sophisticated languages as mutations randomly and by chance increased intelligence and information. (Man is much better now than his ancestors were. Then he built pyramids and was an engineering genius but ate his neighbors heart for supper. Back then they were wild and brutal and killed each other by the dime and dozen, but modern man is very loving and does good as his evolutionary past has been shed). And this was very good. And there was evening and there was morning the sixth day.

And so the universe was formed like this over eons of time and was all very good. And then they took a vacation because of all imagination and thinking they had done.

At the time when humans had evolved there was no marriage and there was no religion. So they developed marriage between a man and a woman because it fitted with the nature of things as water flows downhill. As they evolved in their thinking they decided that their idea of marriage was wrong so they started marrying two men, or a woman and a woman. And they said this was very good and loving, and blessed GOD for it.

And man said, “GOD used death, destruction, suffering, wars, sorrow, mutations, survival of the fittest to create His perfect world. And it was so. He said, “Death was in the world for eons of time before Adam ever sinned”, and he praised GOD for it, marveling at His creative power in how He submitted Himself to chaos, chance and time.

And so man created GOD in his own sinful image. He believed a lie at the cost of GOD'S perfect revelation. He said “we can't believe that poetic fairy-tale” and went off to write his own. And he gloried in his cleverness and progressiveness in all his fake science and delusions of his own mind.

This is the literal, factual, account of the generations of the universe in the day it came about, in the day mankind suppressed the knowledge of GOD. Claiming himself to be wise he became a fool and exchanged the glory of the immortal GOD for anything and everything else, and through this made sure that no mention of GOD came into his public schools to corrupt little children. And the Church embraced it and promoted it and gave glory to the scientist. And so the arm of the atheist was strengthened and sexual immorality flourished and holy marriage is used as a means to get at and mock GOD. Beyond sad!

Just wait until he learns that the Rules of Baseball also do not mention God. ESPN is probably quaking in their boots.
 
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Astrophile

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This is the literal, factual, account of the generations of the universe in the day it came about, in the day mankind suppressed the knowledge of GOD. Claiming himself to be wise he became a fool and exchanged the glory of the immortal GOD for anything and everything else, and through this made sure that no mention of GOD came into his public schools to corrupt little children. And the Church embraced it and promoted it and gave glory to the scientist. And so the arm of the atheist was strengthened and sexual immorality flourished and holy marriage is used as a means to get at and mock GOD. Beyond sad!

You should read the plays of Shakespeare and his contemporaries, and the lives of King Henry VIII and other great men of his time, before you start blaming sexual immorality on atheism and evolution. By the way, it is interesting that Charles Darwin was a direct descendant of Mary Boleyn (sister of Anne), who was Henry VIII's mistress in the 1520s (while he was married to Catherine of Aragon). Perhaps Charles Darwin and evolution were the product of sexual immorality, rather than vice versa.
 
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AV1611VET

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