Why evolution should not be a religious issue

[Radrook]

If you don't wish to learn then people can only make rather general corrections for you. For example you keep trying to claim that you have scientific evidence for ID. But it appears that all that you have is handwaving. An argument that is handwaved in can be refuted with a handwave. I am sure that is not very satisfying for you.

You do realize that one of the main reasons that the ID side lost in the Dover trial was that the ID side could not back up their claims with evidence, don't you?

Yes! I am familiar with your particularly demands for evidence and your refusal to accept anything and everything presented as evidence.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I think that you are fully familiar with all possible responses and fully prepared with a rebuttal for each one.
So it really would make absolutely no difference in reference to your belief.
But I'm sure some other person would be willing to engage you in a debate.

So you make proposals. They are quickly slapped down and you run away? You are not doing the cause of ID any good here. Why even show up if that is all that you are going to do?

 

[Speedwell]

If you don't wish to learn then people can only make rather general corrections for you. For example you keep trying to claim that you have scientific evidence for ID. But it appears that all that you have is handwaving. An argument that is handwaved in can be refuted with a handwave. I am sure that is not very satisfying for you.

You do realize that one of the main reasons that the ID side lost in the Dover trial was that the ID side could not back up their claims with evidence, don't you?

He doesn't even claim to have physical evidence. What he claims to have is irrefutable logic which allows him to conclude intelligent design from the existence of functional organization in biological structures. This logic is so self-evident that he doesn't need to explain it, merely to chastise us for willfully denying it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yes! I am familiar with your particularly demands for evidence and your refusal to accept anything and everything presented as evidence.

That is because you don't even seem to know what is and what is not evidence. Perhaps if you learned what evidence is you could debate a bet better. I have a quick definition of scientific evidence in my sig. Do you see how what you have given here does not qualify as scientific evidence?

 

[Subduction Zone]

He doesn't even claim to have physical evidence. What he has is irrefutable logic which allows him to conclude intelligent design from the existence of functional organization in biological structures. This logic is so self-evident that he doesn't need to explain it, merely to chastise us for willfully denying it.

When one has nothing one needs to take a different route than using evidence and logic. It is not the best debating technique, but it allows one to fool oneself.

 

[Speedwell]

I think that you are fully familiar with all possible responses and fully prepared with a rebuttal for each one.

The only "possible response" I am familiar with is the argument from complexity. I'm curious to know if you have come up with something new.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Jesus was the final sacrifice and He abolished the use of animal sacrifice.

Point being that there has always been requirement of blood sacrifice for sin. Abel was killed by his brother because of the sacrifice and that was a sin, why because the law said so "Thou shalt not murder"

Are you getting the idea that the laws given to Moses on the mountain were in existence prior to the mountain.

another example: Exodus 25
8 And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them.
9 According to all that I shew thee, after the pattern of the tabernacle, and the pattern of all the instruments thereof, even so shall ye make it.
Hebrew 8
8 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

WOW there was a heavenly sanctuary prior to Moses.
Psalm 77:13
Thy way, O God, is in the sanctuary: who is so great a God as our God?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Point being that there has always been requirement of blood sacrifice for sin. Abel was killed by his brother because of the sacrifice and that was a sin, why because the law said so "Thou shalt not murder"

Are you getting the idea that the laws given to Moses on the mountain were in existence prior to the mountain.

another example: Exodus 25
8 And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them.
9 According to all that I shew thee, after the pattern of the tabernacle, and the pattern of all the instruments thereof, even so shall ye make it.
Hebrew 8
8 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

WOW there was a heavenly sanctuary prior to Moses.
Psalm 77:13
Thy way, O God, is in the sanctuary: who is so great a God as our God?

You do realize that the Cain and Abel story are morality tales at best. There was no "Adam and Eve". And Moses too appears to be a fictional character in the Bible. The Exodus as portrayed in the Bible did not happen.

Nor has your God's desire for blood sacrifices been made clear. AV did not openly admit it but it seems that he agrees that they were used to feed the priests of that time.

 

[SteveB28]

I think that you are fully familiar with all possible responses and fully prepared with a rebuttal for each one.
So it really would make absolutely no difference in reference to your belief.
But I'm sure some other person would be willing to engage you in a debate.

So, again we run.....


.

 

[AV1611VET]

AV showed that it was not the case.

Not.

 

[Radrook]

So, again we run.....


.

You are free to interpret it that way. Evasion as to avoid time wastage is much more accurate though.

 

[AV1611VET]

AV did not openly admit it but it seems that he agrees that they were used to feed the priests of that time.

I said on the MUNDANE LEVEL.

On the spiritual level, it's different.

"When I see the blood, I will pass over you."

 

[SteveB28]

You are free to interpret it that way. Evasion as to avoid time wastage is much more accurate though.

Yes, I'm sure that's it........desperate to save time......

Of course........



.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Not.

You did. You may not have understood how you did. I can't help you with that.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I said on the MUNDANE LEVEL.

On the spiritual level, it's different.

"When I see the blood, I will pass over you."

That is the only level it appears. Or is Harry Potter real?

And it is rather amazing that you used a quote from the bible that indicated that your God was not omniscient.

 

[Strathos]

You did. You may not have understood how you did. I can't help you with that.

Are you arguing that because Jesus didn't personally say those verses AV quoted, they don't matter?

 

[AV1611VET]

Are you arguing that because Jesus didn't personally say those verses AV quoted, they don't matter?

It actually contains a direct quote from Jesus himself.

Hebrews 10:1 ¶ For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7 ¶ Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

 

[Strathos]

I knew that. I'm just confused as to what SZ is getting at.

 

[AV1611VET]

I knew that.

I figured you did.

I'm just confused as to what SZ is getting at.

I've detected a change in his posting style recently.

He leans more towards taking potshots now, than refuting what one says.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

He leans more towards taking potshots now, than refuting what one says.

Maybe he's adopting your style...