Why Evolution is True (3)

[Jeffwhosoever]

How many adaptions are required for one species to change to another, and in the fossil record, what is the ratio of intermediate life forms to non-intermediate species?

 

[46AND2]

How many adaptions are required for one species to change to another, and in the fossil record, what is the ratio of intermediate life forms to non-intermediate species?

I don't think either question is quantifiable. The first one is likely quite variable, and the latter is indeterminable since we don't know for certain which species became extinct either at the fossilization event or shortly (before further speciation) thereafter.

I suppose estimates could be, and probably have been, made.

 

[Jeffwhosoever]

One estimate I read is 50,000 genetic changes to change from one life form (say a fish) to another (say an amphibious creature). Since all 50,000 changes are required, the fossil record should have many transitions that failed because statistics shows permutations of 50,000 changes has very poor odds. You have better odds of winning the lottery. And to think all of these changes occurred without a designer (God) making those changes seems difficult to believe.

How many of these transitional fossils between life forms have been found? If this theory is true, we should see many more transitional fossils than non-transitional fossils.

 

[Dizredux]

your whole argument goes down the tubes when you say we are related to fruit flies. Thats discusting. I mean really. And immoral.

now if you can prove common ancestry to fruit flies,

there are many people who will personally pay you lots of money.

kent hovind has a 250,000 dollar challege for anyone to prove common ancestry to distant relatives, like say monkeys, or fruit flies for that matter (now)

http://creationwiki.org/Evolutionis...'s_challenge_to_prove_evolution_(Talk.Origins)

granted the IRS may have confiscated some of this, the offer still stands lol

btw some of the various kinds of evolution :

"1.Cosmic evolution- the origin of time, space and matter. Big Bang.
2.Chemical evolution- the origin of higher elements from hydrogen.
3.Stellar and planetary evolution- Origin of stars and planets.
4.Organic evolution- Origin of life from inanimate matter.
5.Macroevolution- Origin of major kinds.
6.Microevolution- Variations within kinds
Microevolution, or natural selection, is the only one of these we actually observe
"

"speciation is not evidence for macroevolution, because variation within groups of organisms (however you wish to define those groups) only proves that creatures can adapt to their environments, but does not qualify as evidence that these adaptive changes are without limitation. That is like saying “I watched someone jump really high, so that is proof that they used to be able to fly.” Evolutionists commonly use the bait ‘n switch method of using “microevolution” to prove “macroevolution.” "
above quotes from above link

Ahhh you are operating on the Hovind level of discussion. No wonder you seem very confused at times.

Dizredux

 

[dad]

immoral?

What the heck does that have to do with morality? Must have missed the part of the Bible that says "thou shalt not claim fruit flies as relatives."

Guess it wouldn't surprise me, though...

"The source for the name Beelzebub is in 2 Kings 1:2-3, 6, 16. Ba‘al Zəbûb is variously understood to mean "lord of the flies"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beelzebub#cite_note-5 or "lord of the (heavenly) dwelling".[" wiki


Consider the source of your inspiration.

 

[Usus Vox Tractus]

"The source for the name Beelzebub is in 2 Kings 1:2-3, 6, 16. Ba‘al Zəbûb is variously understood to mean "lord of the flies" or "lord of the (heavenly) dwelling".[" wiki


Consider the source of your inspiration.

Telephone gaming again?


Beelzebub - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Scholars are divided, in regard to the god of Ekron, between the belief that zebub may be the original affix to Baal and that it is a substitute for an original zbl which, after the discoveries of Ras Shamra, has been connected with the title of "prince", frequently attributed to Baal in mythological texts. In addition to the intrinsic weakness of this last position, which is not supported by the versions, is the fact that it was long ago suggested that there was a relationship between the Philistine god and cults of fly or apotropaic divinities appearing in the Hellenic world, such as Zeus Apomyios or Myiagros.[citation needed]

It is exactly this last connection which is confirmed by the Ugaritic text when we examine how Baal affects the expulsion of the flies which are the patient's sickness. According to Francesco Saracino (1982) this series of elements may be inconclusive as evidence, but the fact that in relationship to Baal Zebub, the two constituent terms are here linked, joined by a function (ndy) that is typical of some divinities attested in the Mediterranean world, is a strong argument in favor of the authenticity of the name of the god of Ekron, and of his possible therapeutic activities, which are implicit in 2 Kings 1:2-3, etc.[11]


Myiagros:


Myiagros - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In ancient Greek religion, Myiagros ("He Who Chases the Flies") or Myacoris was a cult title for a divine figure who warded off flies. It could be used as an epithet for either a divinity or a hero.[1]
Pausanias characterizes Myiagros as a divinized mortal who received an offering preliminary to the main sacrifice for Athene at Alipheira in Arcadia.[2] The intention was to ward off flies in advance of an animal sacrifice, which might be expected to attack them to its detriment.[3] Aelian says the advance offering was made to the flies themselves.[4]

The Alipheiran cult was perhaps influenced by rites in Elis at Olympia. The Eleans made sacrifices either to the flies themselves, or to a Zeus Apomyios ("Shoo-Fly Zeus")[5] or a god named Myiodes or Myiakores. There was a similar ritual among the Akarnanians.[6] An Elean myth told of how Herakles was troubled by flies when he was trying to sacrifice at Olympia, and was instructed in how to sacrifice to the Zeus who shoos away flies (Ἀπόμυιο&#962, so that the flies were at once driven across the Alpheus.[7] In cultivating Apollo at Leucas, a similar preliminary rite was enacted.[7]

Pliny says that when a swarm of flies is causing disease (pestilentia), the Eleans invoke Myacoris, and once the god has approved and accepted the sacrifice, the flies die immediately.[8]

The cult title can sometimes be found in older exegesis on Beelzebub understood as "Lord of the Flies."[9]









Your "devil beezlebub" is nothing but a fabrication based on derision between cultures and ignorance over time. Much like Lucifer, made up, none existent, boogey man stories.


What is the religious fascination with creating devils where there is none?

 

[Usus Vox Tractus]

Lord of the flies?

This is what the LORD says: Let my people go, so that they may worship me. If you do not let my people go, I will send swarms of flies upon you and your officials, on your people and into your houses. The houses of the Egyptians will be full of flies, and even the ground where they are.”

— Exodus 8:20–21​

 

[dad]

Your "devil beezlebub" is nothing but a fabrication based on derision between cultures and ignorance over time. Much like Lucifer, made up, none existent, boogey man stories.

I understand that someone professing an antiChrist stance might wish to pretend there was no evil leader of the dark side in the spirit world. I also understand why you would disrespect what Scripture says. That is your problem, though.

What is the religious fascination with creating devils where there is none?

Jesus cast them out. Careful.

 

[Usus Vox Tractus]

I understand that someone professing an antiChrist stance might wish to pretend there was no evil leader of the dark side in the spirit world. I also understand why you would disrespect what Scripture says. That is your problem, though.

Jesus cast them out. Careful.

There was no one called "Jesus" 2014 years ago. His name has been changed. It was Yehoshua ha Mashiach and he is my Lord and redeemer, come in the flesh in my own life time and I saw the Son of God face to face.

I told you while the name is so important, an assertion "Jesus" said mant many times yet you chose to ignore it. Bizarre.

If you want to change the name even further and called him Bob the Plumber in another 2014 years. I will still disagree with you and I will still be correct.

You can take your anti-Christ slander and crucify it.



I didn't say there are no devils, I said two specific ones (Beelzebub and Lucifer) are completely fabricated, made up, provable by history.


The aberrancy of Christianity asserts a rebel angel who under his own authority lead angels and man away from a God who can't keep the universe in order. In the Judaic culture that Christianity arose from, Satan was God's temperer of man, to test him to see if he would rise or fall by enticing him with his own desires.

Satan is under complete jurisdiction of God (As seen in Job) and doing the job prescribed to him as an obedient angel of The Lord. He finds out which pieces of steel are hard and tempered well, and which are weak and need to go back into the fire.

Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."



God is Almighty, angels cannot rebel against Him. That is unless you are anthropomorphizing the path of Venus in relation to the Sun.

 

[justlookinla]

The aberrancy of Christianity asserts a rebel angel who under his own authority lead angels and man away from a God who can't keep the universe in order. In the Judaic culture that Christianity arose from, Satan was God's temperer of man, to test him to see if he would rise or fall by enticing him with his own desires.

Satan is under complete jurisdiction of God (As seen in Job) and doing the job prescribed to him as an obedient angel of The Lord. He finds out which pieces of steel are hard and tempered well, and which are weak and need to go back into the fire.

Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."


God is Almighty, angels cannot rebel against Him. That is unless you are anthropomorphizing the path of Venus in relation to the Sun.

Scripture begs to differ. That is if you accept scripture.

Rev 12:7 Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels fought back,
Rev 12:8 but he was defeated, and there was no longer any place for them in heaven.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world--he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

 

[Usus Vox Tractus]

Scripture begs to differ. That is if you accept scripture.

Rev 12:7 Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels fought back,
Rev 12:8 but he was defeated, and there was no longer any place for them in heaven.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world--he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

I fully accept it as a spiritual message describing real events in a manner the people at the time could understand. As a spiritual message to be read with the Holy Spirit, I understand that the surface level meaning of the words is only a reflection and the Reality is below the surface.

The Truth is always clothed in cultural allegory and anthropomorphism. It changes clothes from culture to culture.

 

[justlookinla]

I fully accept it as a spiritual message describing real events in a manner the people at the time could understand. As a spiritual message to be read with the Holy Spirit, I understand that the surface level meaning of the words is only a reflection and the Reality is below the surface.

The Truth is always clothed in cultural allegory and anthropomorphism. It changes clothes from culture to culture.

The angels were rebelling against someone in the passage, and the leader was satan.

 

[dad]

There was no one called "Jesus" 2014 years ago. His name has been changed. It was Yehoshua ha Mashiach and he is my Lord and redeemer, come in the flesh in my own life time and I saw the Son of God face to face.

Horse doo doo. Gabriel knew what His name was, he told Mary what it would be.

You can take your anti-Christ slander and crucify it.

I have never found verses like these 'slander'.



1Jo 4:2 -Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

1Jo 4:3 -And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

I didn't say there are no devils, I said two specific ones (Beelzebub and Lucifer) are completely fabricated, made up, provable by history.

Horse doo doo.

In the Judaic culture that Christianity arose from, Satan was God's temperer of man, to test him to see if he would rise or fall by enticing him with his own desires.

God is one God. and the Old testament pointed the way to Christ. Jesus clarified some things, and it is crystal clear that Satan is not some neutral character.

God is Almighty, angels cannot rebel against Him.

Man rebelled too. Deal with it.

 

[Astrophile]

your whole argument goes down the tubes when you say we are related to fruit flies. Thats discusting. I mean really. And immoral.

If you think about, we are more closely related to snakes than to fruit flies; at least snakes are vertebrates.

 

[Usus Vox Tractus]

Horse doo doo. Gabriel knew what His name was, he told Mary what it would be.
I have never found verses like these 'slander'.



1Jo 4:2 -Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

1Jo 4:3 -And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.



Horse doo doo.

God is one God. and the Old testament pointed the way to Christ. Jesus clarified some things, and it is crystal clear that Satan is not some neutral character.


Man rebelled too. Deal with it.

The letter "J" did not exist until 500 years ago. Deal with it.

I have confessed my direct interaction with the Son of God in the flesh, proven before my ears and ears. It is impossible for me to "believe" because I know and there is no room for doubt. But you don't really believe in that sort of thing do you....

He was not called Jesus until 500 years ago. Fact.
No one called him Jesus while he was alive. Fact.
His real name means God the Father saves. Fact.
"Jesus" said his name was very important. Fact.

The accurate transliteration of his real name Yehoshua should be Joshua and is transliterated this way for other Yehoshuas in the bible. "Jesus" is not even the correct transliteration of his name.

Fact.

The lying pens of the scribes have altered scripture throughout the ages as state in the bible and exemplified in the total fabrication of "Lucifer".

Fact.

The mythos wrapped around the name "Jesus" takes salvation away from the Father, where it belongs, where his real name says it belongs.

Fact.



Truth about God from the bible and documented history and "Jesus's" Name (Yehoshua) or fables of man's errant beliefs.

You choose.

 

[dad]

The letter "J" did not exist until 500 years ago. Deal with it.

I have confessed my direct interaction with the Son of God in the flesh, proven before my ears and ears. It is impossible for me to "believe" because I know and there is no room for doubt. But you don't really believe in that sort of thing do you....

He was not called Jesus until 500 years ago. Fact.
No one called him Jesus while he was alive. Fact.
His real name means God the Father saves. Fact.
"Jesus" said his name was very important. Fact.

The accurate transliteration of his real name Yehoshua should be Joshua and is transliterated this way for other Yehoshuas in the bible. "Jesus" is not even the correct transliteration of his name.

Fact.

The lying pens of the scribes have altered scripture throughout the ages as state in the bible and exemplified in the total fabrication of "Lucifer".

Fact.

The mythos wrapped around the name "Jesus" takes salvation away from the Father, where it belongs, where his real name says it belongs.

Fact.



Truth about God from the bible and documented history and "Jesus's" Name (Yehoshua) or fables of man's errant beliefs.

You choose.

However we pronounce the name now isn't an issue. God knew how we would pronounce it, and how it was spoken then. Jesus is the way the truth and the life, and no man goes to the Father but by Him. Now you may want to peddle your demonic and antiChrist little doubts and philosophies somewhere else. I am not interested, thanks.

 

[dad]

If you think about, we are more closely related to snakes than to fruit flies; at least snakes are vertebrates.

If one actually thinks about it, we are not related to either. Since God created all animals and man, the similarities are His work, and not an indication of ancestors, except where we know that it is. We are related to God!! He is our missing common ancestor!

See how real science that includes God has actual answers, while so called science knows precious little?!!

 

[Usus Vox Tractus]

However we pronounce the name now isn't an issue. God knew how we would pronounce it, and how it was spoken then. Jesus is the way the truth and the life, and no man goes to the Father but by Him. Now you may want to peddle your demonic and antiChrist little doubts and philosophies somewhere else. I am not interested, thanks.

So my personal testimony of Yeshua come in the flesh is moot to you? And the importance of His name, as he said it was, is meaningless to you? Figures it would be to a goat.


If it's not an issue then why do you condemn me? You reveal yourself a worker of iniquity and a slanderer of brethren. You have not God in mind but your own self righteousness. As shone by the trap you set for me that I willingly walked into, and you snap it shut with all the glee of a cruel and petulant child.

You do not have living Spirit but dead letters, and you look for opportunities to slay with them to protect your god of fortresses.

You only condemn yourself.

 

[morse86]

So my personal testimony of Yeshua come in the flesh is moot to you? And the importance of His name, as he said it was, is meaningless to you? Figures it would be to a goat.


If it's not an issue then why do you condemn me? You reveal yourself a worker of iniquity and a slanderer of brethren. You have not God in mind but your own self righteousness. As shone by the trap you set for me that I willingly walked into, and you snap it shut with all the glee of a cruel and petulant child.

You do not have living Spirit but dead letters, and you look for opportunities to slay with them to protect your god of fortresses.

You only condemn yourself.

Testimony? hahahaha!

Hebrews 9:17:
For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Hebrews 9:16:
where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.


Jesus came, died for the world, and is seated at the right hand of God. It's done..the first part of the bible was fufilled. While he was in the world he was the light....now that he is not in the world...we the saints are the light. There is no reason for God to reveal any more "scriptures"...like men keep digging out of the ground........ or "talk directly" to people.

I highly doubt you had a "personal interaction" with Jesus. Jesus is god, period.

 

[dad]

So my personal testimony of Yeshua come in the flesh is moot to you?

No, it is evidence you are false.

And the importance of His name, as he said it was, is meaningless to you? Figures it would be to a goat.

His name was passed down, it is fine, thanks.

If it's not an issue then why do you condemn me? You reveal yourself a worker of iniquity and a slanderer of brethren.

The test of an antichrist spirit is not mine. I just use it.

You have not God in mind but your own self righteousness. As shone by the trap you set for me that I willingly walked into, and you snap it shut with all the glee of a cruel and petulant child.

If that is some remorse for your condition, easy to fix, just get saved.

Until then, au revoire.