Why doesnt creationism need any data?

[sfs]

Let me try this:
You are ignorant about evolution!

How do you like my unfounded accusation?

Not very interesting, I'm afraid. It's too easily refuted, by looking here, for example.

 

[Split Rock]

The field of Science belongs to everyday people. Nobody else. We rule it. Not the other way around.

The field of aerospace engineering belongs to everyday people. Nobody else. We rule it. Not the other way around. I am going to design an airplane of my own (even though I don't know jack about doing this), and then ask you to fly in it. I wonder how that will go......

 

[Split Rock]

Not very interesting, I'm afraid. It's too easily refuted, by looking here, for example.

HA! More appeal to elitist authority!!!1111

 

[Timothew]

I wish to discredit your claim to speak knowledgeably about what is and what is not science, and about evolution, certainly.

I studied German in college, and passed my tests, and yet I am ignorant of German, beyond the barest basics. Your logic is faulty.

Looks like an engineering degree, rather than a science one. I asked because many creationists who describe themselves as having a background in science are actually skilled in engineering. Engineering of whatever sort is a great thing, and by no means trivial to master -- but it's not science. It uses science, of course, but it's not science.

More than zero.

More than zero.

Then why did you suggest that science can't form and test hypotheses about the past, or that we cant' observe speciation occurring today?

You said I was ignorant.
My claim is that I am not ignorant. I'm not claiming to be an expert, I just don't like your baseless claim that I am ignorant.
I proved that I am not ignorant, I studied this stuff in college, in biology classes.

Do you not understand the definition of ignorant?
Lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated.
2. Lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about something in particular: "ignorant of astronomy"

Since I studied this in college, I'm not ignorant. Your claim is an error, based in ignorance of my education background. Stop claiming I am ignorant. I am not.

I don't know how else to put this to you.
You are in error.
You are wrong.
You don't know what "ignorant" means.
You insist on your claim, despite being shown the evidence to the contrary.
Your data is incomplete.

 

[Timothew]

Not very interesting, I'm afraid. It's too easily refuted, by looking here, for example.

No it isn't

 

[sfs]

HA! More appeal to elitist authority!!!1111

That's me -- elitist to the core. I refuse to challenge professional musicians on whether their songs are music, and I refuse to challenge my oral surgeon on whether a root canal is part of dentistry, and I refuse to offer my own theories to the orthopedist on how the torn ligament in my left pinkie(*) should be treated. I may question them and even doubt them on particular points, but I refuse to pretend that I know enough about their field to dismiss it. (I will, however, continue to poke mild fun at sociologists from time to time. A foolish consistency is a hobgoblin of small minds.)

(*) It makes typing rather difficult. Moreover, the damage is clearly to be blamed on evolutionary biology, since I got it playing volleyball with other attendees at the Boston evolutionary genomics one-day retreat. Blasted pseudo-scientists.

 

[Split Rock]

The field of Science belongs to everyday people. Nobody else. We rule it. Not the other way around.

I've got another one for you:

The religion of Christianity belongs to everyday people, including atheists and agnostics. Nobody else. We rule it. Not the other way around.

 

[sfs]

You said I was ignorant.
My claim is that I am not ignorant. I'm not claiming to be an expert, I just don't like your baseless claim that I am ignorant.
I proved that I am not ignorant, I studied this stuff in college, in biology classes.

Do you not understand the definition of ignorant?
Lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated.
2. Lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about something in particular: "ignorant of astronomy"

Since I studied this in college, I'm not ignorant. Your claim is an error, based in ignorance of my education background. Stop claiming I am ignorant. I am not.

I don't know how else to put this to you.
You are in error.
You are wrong.
You don't know what "ignorant" means.
You insist on your claim, despite being shown the evidence to the contrary.
Your data is incomplete.

Do you not understand that one can study something without learning it? Or that one can study something and then forget it? Either case leaves you ignorant, regardless of your education. And since I have no idea what biology you studied, all I have to go on is your statements here, which display ignorance of evolution in particular and science in general.

 

[Timothew]

I've got another one for you too:
sfs doesn't know what he is talking about since he doesn't understand the meaning of the word ignorant.

 

[sfs]

No it isn't

This is just getting silly. If we were to go into a court of law, I would be recognized by the court as an expert witness on evolution. You would not.

 

[Timothew]

Do you not understand that one can study something without learning it? Or that one can study something and then forget it? Either case leaves you ignorant, regardless of your education. And since I have no idea what biology you studied, all I have to go on is your statements here, which display ignorance of evolution in particular and science in general.

Your claim is that I am ignorant. Therefore it is up to you to either prove it or back down. I don't need to tell you which biology course I've taken.

Either prove it or be quiet. It's possible to be ignorant, that doesn't prove that I am ignorant.

 

[Timothew]

This is just getting silly. If we were to go into a court of law, I would be recognized by the court as an expert witness on evolution. You would not.

I never claimed to be an expert, I merely claimed that I am not ignorant. You claimed I was ignorant.

If we were in a court of law, your case would be thrown out for lack of proof.

I have provided proof that I am not ignorant. It's called a science degree.

You have provided NO proof that I am ignorant, yet you still wish to claim that I am. Your opinion doesn't matter in the least.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I've got another one for you too:
sfs doesn't know what he is talking about since he doesn't understand the meaning of the word ignorant.

Does he want the Biblical or Wiki definition

KJV) Leviticus 4:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a soul shall sin through ignorance against any of the commandments of the LORD [concerning things] which ought not to be done, and shall do against any of them:

Young) Ephesians 4:18 being darkened in the understanding, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance/agnoian <52> that is in them, because of the hardness of their heart,

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon
Strong's Number G52 matches the Greek &#7940;&#947;&#957;&#959;&#953;&#945; (agnoia), which occurs 4 times in 4 verses in the Greek concordance of the KJV

52. agnoia ag'-noy-ah from 50; ignorance (properly, the quality):--ignorance.

Ignorance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ignorance (or witlessness) is a state of being uninformed. (lack of knowledge)[1]. The word "ignorant" is an adjective describing a person in the state of being unaware and is often used as an insult. "Ignoramus" is commonly used in the US, the UK, and Ireland as a name of someone who is overwhelmingly ignorant.

Ignorance should be distinguished from stupidity, although both can lead to "unwise" acts. Also, if important information is available, one may fail to acquire it due to lack of intelligence (not realizing its importance, or not understanding it). The informal use of ignorant is the same as rude and discourteous.

 

[Timothew]

Does he want the Biblical or Wiki definition

KJV) Leviticus 4:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a soul shall sin through ignorance against any of the commandments of the LORD [concerning things] which ought not to be done, and shall do against any of them:

Young) Ephesians 4:18 being darkened in the understanding, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance/agnoian <52> that is in them, because of the hardness of their heart,

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon
Strong's Number G52 matches the Greek &#7940;&#947;&#957;&#959;&#953;&#945; (agnoia), which occurs 4 times in 4 verses in the Greek concordance of the KJV

52. agnoia ag'-noy-ah from 50; ignorance (properly, the quality):--ignorance.

Ignorance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ignorance (or witlessness) is a state of being uninformed. (lack of knowledge)[1]. The word "ignorant" is an adjective describing a person in the state of being unaware and is often used as an insult. "Ignoramus" is commonly used in the US, the UK, and Ireland as a name of someone who is overwhelmingly ignorant.

Ignorance should be distinguished from stupidity, although both can lead to "unwise" acts. Also, if important information is available, one may fail to acquire it due to lack of intelligence (not realizing its importance, or not understanding it). The informal use of ignorant is the same as rude and discourteous.

He still doesn't know what ignorant means even after I TOLD HIM THE DEFINITION!

 

[Timothew]

Whatever the truth is I will lay odds that you were made a creationists before you were educated,
the reason I say this is because it is ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE for it to have happened the other way around.

Use your nice words. Unless it is ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE for you.

And as I said before, I AM NOT SAYING CREATIONISM IS TRUE, I AM ONLY SAYING THAT I DON'T BELIEVE THE EVOLUTION STORY.

Are you educated at all?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

NM....no post

 

[sfs]

Your claim is that I am ignorant. Therefore it is up to you to either prove it or back down. I don't need to tell you which biology course I've taken.

Either prove it or be quiet. It's possible to be ignorant, that doesn't prove that I am ignorant.

I did prove it. You made two clearly false statements, one about science in general and one about evolution. They were statements that reflected ignorance of evolution, since one who was knowledgeable about evolution would not have made them; you showed, as the definition requires, that you are informed about important aspects of evolution. Again, why did you make them if you were not ignorant of the subject?

You're the one who's claiming to know enough about the field to judge whether it's science or not, so how about you provide some support for your claims? Do you know anything at all about what evolutionary biologists actually do, or what they study? If you haven't read papers in evolution, how can you possibly judge what they're doing? Remember, you're the one who's accusing me of not doing science. Since I do scientific research for a living, that's a pretty serious charge. How about you step up and provide some evidence for it? I pointed you to a list of some of my papers -- tell me what is unscientific about them.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I did prove it. You made two clearly false statements, one about science in general and one about evolution. They were statements that reflected ignorance of evolution, since one who was knowledgeable about evolution would not have made them; you showed, as the definition requires, that you are informed about important aspects of evolution. Again, why did you make them if you were not ignorant of the subject?

You're the one who's claiming to know enough about the field to judge whether it's science or not, so how about you provide some support for your claims? Do you know anything at all about what evolutionary biologists actually do, or what they study? If you haven't read papers in evolution, how can you possibly judge what they're doing? Remember, you're the one who's accusing me of not doing science. Since I do scientific research for a living, that's a pretty serious charge. How about you step up and provide some evidence for it? I pointed you to a list of some of my papers -- tell me what is unscientific about them.

I will have to admit that I am ignorant about evolution as much as I am about black holes...

The Black Hole - U.S.S. Cygnus - YouTube

 

[Timothew]

I did prove it. You made two clearly false statements, one about science in general and one about evolution. They were statements that reflected ignorance of evolution, since one who was knowledgeable about evolution would not have made them. To be blunt, they were gross errors, the kind I hear from people who know nothing at all about science. Again, why did you make them if you were not ignorant of the subject?

You're the one who's claiming to know enough about the field to judge whether it's science or not, so how about you provide some support for your claims? Do you know anything at all about what evolutionary biologists actually do, or what they study? If you haven't read papers in evolution, how can you possibly judge what they're doing? Remember, you're the one who's accusing me of not doing science. Since I do scientific research for a living, that's a pretty serious charge. How about you step up and provide some evidence for it?

You are the one claiming that I'm ignorant. You lost the argument the minute you resorted to name-calling. I never accused you of anything other than being ignorant of the definition of ignorant.

I think calling someone ignorant is a serious charge. Especially when it isn't true. Why don't you show a little class and admit that your were wrong to call me ignorant?

 

[sfs]

I never claimed to be an expert, I merely claimed that I am not ignorant. You claimed I was ignorant.

I know. And you claimed I was ignorant in return. Demonstrating that I am actually an expert in (one aspect of) evolution rebuts your counterclaim. That's all I was doing.

By the way, I don't think "ignorant" is a term of abuse. I am ignorant of a vast number of things and a vast number of fields -- and that includes fields I've taken courses in.