Hieronymus
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Oh, i must have missed this post.A good book to dispel any doubts as to what genuine conversion and what it is not. You can download it as a PDF. Joseph Alleine, An Alarm to the Unconverted, first published in 1672, but updated for modern readers. I read every word of that book and it put hairs on my spiritual chest! Inspired by it, I wrote my own book, How Do You Know That You Are Genuinely Converted To Christ? which I have published on Amazon Kindle. But if you PM me, I will send you a copy.
Concerning tongues, there is the real thing, and then there are the counterfeits. The counterfeit can be so close to the real thing, that it may be hard to tell the difference. Sometimes the counterfeit is obvious, when a person is just doing it in public to show how close to God he is, and how spiritual. Trouble is for him, when others compliment him on his spirituality, that will be all the reward he will get, because that is what he was doing it for - to be seen of men. Other pray in tongues in public because they are ignorant of Paul's teaching in 1 Corinthians 14 about the unusefulness of using the gift in front of others without interpretation. They may be giving thanks to God well, but out of place because no one else is bless or built up through what he is saying.Is that an understandable language or the typical 'glossolalia' ?
I have serious doubts about the Godliness of the gibberish varieties of "tongues".Really?? I mean, God can do anything, but that's quite a stretch for me.
None the less, there are quite a few stories of people pronounced dead who came back and had a Biblically sound account. Ian McCormick is a well known one.Wow man, i have never seen anything like that.
I wish i had though. It would very much boost my Faith and motivation.
I really think i'm doing something wrong, you know..
Like being stuck on a threshold...
Maybe even too chicken to try things and pursue Christ, afraid of disappointment and depression, afraid i'm a 'fake' Christian afterall..
Maybe i should open my own topic about this..
So i guess i'm perhaps not truly converted..
Although i do have that strictness, i look at these things the same as you do.Hah! He would probably get kicked out for trying to rebuke such a leader.
I agree he should, but i wouldn't have the guts. I would just leave and pray for them later.
Yeah, chicken...
Yes, I am in Upsidedown land. I can't remember if I included a list of my other books at the back of the Ebook I sent you. If you want to know more about the Baptism with the Spirit, Prophecy and Tongues, I can send you that Ebook. I guess I have given away more books than I have sold - it is because I think the message getting out there is preferable to me making a profit out of my writing. I have another one called "Are You The Victim of Spiritual Abuse" that might be useful to you. Just PM me, and I will be glad to send them to you.Well, i have to watch my steps too.
As i said before, i may be too far on the opposite side, meaning i'm too sceptical about miracles.
Or, maybe it's just that i am not converted / transformed.
I think i'm not, to be honest...
I pray often, even begging God sometimes, to change me, but i suspect it is me who has to take a step, but i'm not sure how or what step.
I think i cling too much to earthly things to avoid depression, for which i've been on medication for years already...
I thought i could stop when i came to believe in Christ, so i stopped taking them.
Didn't work out though...
Disappointing, yes.
So i'm still, after almost 10 years now, stuck on the level of "reasonable faith" but not "converted" or "delivered".
My faith feels a bit dead..
It would be nice to meet you and talk about this, but you're literally on the other side of the planet,
Maybe you can pop me a link to the study you mentioned.
I'll send you a PM if you don't mind.
I agree. They can be very real, but I don't believe that they are from God. The truth is what you see in the book of Acts, and we don't see those sensory experiences there. We see boldness to preach the Gospel and the signs and wonders I have already described- and those signs and wonders are always connected with the preaching of the gospel to pagans. We don't see any evidence in Acts of unusual manifestations among Christians. And there is no teaching about them in the Epistles. But there is a passage where when the pagans came to Christ, they gathered all their books about the magic arts, put them in a big pile and burned them.Not sure if i understand you correctly, but i'm convinced the gold dust and oil and things like stigmata are real, that they are supernatural phenomena.
The magick performed with / by demons / fallen gods is real.
It's supernatural.
The sceptics and naturalists can take a hike.
There is a trend too, an increase in "demon magicians".
They show their stuff on TV like the got talent shows too.
Some of them are famous.
They do impossible things.
Shaolin monks too.
Youtube channel Xendrius has a series with lots of footage.
It seems to be part of a slow disclosure program to get people getting used to these things.
No idea where this is heading further.
May be interesting to look into.
great accountI am going to pass on a story from my past -- in the mid-70's when I was a college student -- I went regularly to a Christian Coffeehouse.
The SIGN OF THE FISH Coffeehouse was a two-story house in a part of town away from everything. I was a REGULAR there; REGULARS got there early, we had a prayer meeting prior to the "official opening" and people would come in - we regulars would witness to them...
We were forbidden by the Director (himself just a college student like us) to discuss Tongues -- we could not discuss the Baptism of the Holy Spirit in any way whatsoever.
Myself, Rick and Bruce agreed on this policy (though charismatics ourselves) - we gave our word that we would not discuss GETTING THE GHOST while on the premises.
But our word was NOT ENOUGH for the Director -- he wanted to convince us of the Cessationist position.
Early one evening, before the prayer meeting that preceded the arrival of the general public, the Director was showing everyone his new LEATHER BIBLE COVER -- it was a grand thing indeed, and everyone was OOOIng and AHHHing over it -- three little belts that fastened it, miniature belt-loops, we all went gaga over his new Bible cover.
So the 'prayer meeting' or 'staff meeting' prior to opening to the public turned into another chance for the Director to preach Cessationism to all of us (after all the OOOing and AHHHing about his new leather Bible cover had died down).
I sat at the table as the Director's eyes bored into mine -- right at me he was preaching and I knew what was coming -- he was gonna RAM IT HOME about "the Perfect" being the completed Bible.
"And what was it that we have now that caused tongues to cease?" and he held his Bible with both hands -- shoved it out at me -- and held it a foot from my face and shouted
"THIS !!"
And Rick immediately quipped:
"What? Your LEATHER BIBLE COVER?"
The meeting was dismissed without prayer, Rick, Bruce and I were in hysterics and somehow made it to a study room upstairs, shut the door and just fell about the place. We laughed until tears rolled down our faces. We knew we had to get serious and go witness to people coming in soon, but we couldn't stop laughing. When we were just about normal, some one would say "leather Bible cover!" or "The Perfect!" and we would go down again and roll some more. I never laughed so hard and so long before or since.
wonder why there is no record of the likes of contsantine burning all the pagan books ....I agree. They can be very real, but I don't believe that they are from God. The truth is what you see in the book of Acts, and we don't see those sensory experiences there. We see boldness to preach the Gospel and the signs and wonders I have already described- and those signs and wonders are always connected with the preaching of the gospel to pagans. We don't see any evidence in Acts of unusual manifestations among Christians. And there is no teaching about them in the Epistles. But there is a passage where when the pagans came to Christ, they gathered all their books about the magic arts, put them in a big pile and burned them.
There is a passage describing the burning of occult books in Acts. That was the one I was referring to.wonder why there is no record of the likes of contsantine burning all the pagan books ....
Oscar...im going to get a sore face if i stick my tongue any further into my cheek
Yes i knowThere is a passage describing the burning of occult books in Acts. That was the one I was referring to.
This subforum should be a "safe area" free from Cessationists coming in -- I thik the Sign Gifts sub-forum elsewhere is as well.
But NothingIsImpossible is correct -- people just dive into a new thread -- and Cessationists gonna Cessationate.
That is a good excuse for not seeking God to find out whether the Holy Spirit does have supernatural gifts for you to use to bless your brothers and sisters in Christ. Deliberate ignorance can be a heart sin that can keep one out of heaven, so we all have to be very strict in following all of Christ's commands, and to open our hearts and allow the search-light of God to shine in every part to root out any false way.
If that is where you are being led by the Lord, I don't have any problem with that. I just ask questions to see what people are made of. If I kick a barrel of acid, I get acid, but if I kick a barrel of honey, I get honey. It all depends what's inside of the barrel, just the same as what is inside of a person.You have made assumptions about me that are false. I have sought the Lord and that is what I came away with, what I shared in my post. I also never said I don't have a gift of the spirit. Mine is helps
I believe that is why I became an EMT. I want to help people and care for them. Which is what being an EMT is all about.
I don't currently attend church because my ex-wife doesn't want our kids in the Catholic church. Since I have my son on Saturdays and Sundays that keeps me out of Mass. So, my gift of helps is not used within a church setting. However, it used well used outside of church on my two 24 hour work shifts.
What is meant by ..in a church setting?You have made assumptions about me that are false. I have sought the Lord and that is what I came away with, what I shared in my post. I also never said I don't have a gift of the spirit. Mine is helps
I believe that is why I became an EMT. I want to help people and care for them. Which is what being an EMT is all about.
I don't currently attend church because my ex-wife doesn't want our kids in the Catholic church. Since I have my son on Saturdays and Sundays that keeps me out of Mass. So, my gift of helps is not used within a church setting. However, it used well used outside of church on my two 24 hour work shifts.
What is meant by ..in a church setting?
We.in whom the holy Spirit dwells are the church 7 days a week 24 hours a day.
The temple of God.
are you filled with the Holy Spirit ,born again of water by burial and the baptism of the holy Spirit and free from sin ?My mistake that I didn't clarify
Within a formal church setting. I don't do anything within the Catholic church. I do use my gift every chance I get, especially at work as I work with the very sick as an advanced life support EMT.
are you filled with the Holy Spirit ,born again of water by burial and the baptism of the holy Spirit and free from sin ?
the ministry of helps i do not think is cleaning a buildingcar park .but in Acts we see that Dorcus had that ministry but it is not one of the supernatural gifts or attributes of the holy spirit,without whom we cannot do them .
thats the point.
we cannot say we walk in the holy Spirit when the only evidence is doing what any nice sort of person in the world does.
And thats the odd thing..No one is free from sin Michael, not even you. I am Catholic, you know full well what we believe.
And thats the odd thing..
You just declared the lord JESUS failed on the cross which he died on and rose again to set us free from sin and its sting .
You still perpetuate idol worship by not. forbidding making statues of mary ..
You are in fact a cessationist agreeing with rome saying the pope is holy father and thereby saying the position of God has ceased and been given to a man.
Rome says mary is a co -mediator between man and God thus declaring that the position of the Lord JESUS as the ONLY mediator has ceased...
Your in fact a cessationist .
There are no rules about that.No, Catholics are not cessationists. Nothing you mentioned spells out "cessationism." I don't agree with those doctrines either, but "cessationist" is not just an all-purpose pejorative to be attached to any doctrine we don't like.
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