Why does the Torah scare so many people?

[Andyman_1970]

Check this out...........

I've noticed in certain forums there is this kneejerk reaction to the mere mention that someone out of a deep love for God might want to observe Torah in a non-threatening, non "you must observe Torah as well" attitude.

What's up with this???

 

[CovenantRay]

Check this out...........

I've noticed in certain forums there is this kneejerk reaction to the mere mention that someone out of a deep love for God might want to observe Torah in a non-threatening, non "you must observe Torah as well" attitude.

What's up with this???

Dear Achi:

This is a common reaction in Christianity as a whole, not just in certain forums. It is probably a combination of reasons. A few that come to mind are: bad teaching, poor understanding of the bible, especially the first 2/3. Misinterpretation of the New Testament scriptures, particularly the Paulene scriptures. Lack of 1st century background information, replacement theology, latent or blatent anti-semitism. No knowledge of exogesis....

Perhaps it is just easier to believe praying 1 prayer, being baptised, and going to a "feel-good" empowering church with 2 commandments and one has purchased "fire insurance".

=+=+=+

I am not the judge of all that is Truth. In the end, it is up to HaShem. Perhaps it IS true that my 2nd paragraph above is all one needs. I tend to follow the old axiom, pray for the best and prepare for the worst. What drives me is not "fire insurance", rather it is to come closer to my G-d and to conform to the ideals of my Messiah. Heaven is a wonderful place, I'm sure! However this is not my reason to worship, or what motivates me in the least.

These are my thoughts, please add your own!

Shalom,

CovenantRay

 

[jgonz]

Fear.

IMO, it's fear. Fear of being wrong. Fear that your pastor taught you something wrong. Fear that something more could possibly be required of you. Fear that you've been deceived. Fear that you've missed something important. Fear that generations of Christians got it wrong and believed a lie.

So, they ignore it, refuse to believe it, refuse to even listen, have the typical knee-jerk reaction that it's legalism and walk away.

It's hard to "swim upstream" against the mainstream flow. G-d is pulling His own people out though and we're seeing more and more of us every day. Praise Him!!!

 

[Wags]

Fear of being asked to move out of their comfort zone. Fear of being "different".....

And the evil one is very good at making the things of G-d appear to be an abomination, and evil things appear to be good.

 

[Yahudim]

• Mat 7:13

• Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
  [*]Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

 

[Knowledge3]

I love the Torah and read it with care and study.

I love G-d's word and do not understand why people place Tradition over G-d's statutes and laws. To me, the reading and obedience of G-d's word is more important that observing Tradition.

And it is very hard to keep.

 

[Gwenyfur]

I love the Torah and read it with care and study.

I love G-d's word and do not understand why people place Tradition over G-d's statutes and laws. To me, the reading and obedience of G-d's word is more important that observing Tradition.

And it is very hard to keep.

I hope I'm not stepping on toes or anything ...but
Amen

 

[~Nikki~]

Fear.

IMO, it's fear. Fear of being wrong. Fear that your pastor taught you something wrong. Fear that something more could possibly be required of you. Fear that you've been deceived. Fear that you've missed something important. Fear that generations of Christians got it wrong and believed a lie.

So, they ignore it, refuse to believe it, refuse to even listen, have the typical knee-jerk reaction that it's legalism and walk away.

It's hard to "swim upstream" against the mainstream flow. G-d is pulling His own people out though and we're seeing more and more of us every day. Praise Him!!!

And because it challenges them to change their lives...

I came out of a mainstream evangelical church a few years back...

In mainstream churches these days they generally teach that believers are under grace not law. And while Sha'ul said that in no way gives a license to sin, people seem to forget that verse.

Also mainstream teaching goes something like this..."be ye perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect"... *interpretation*, but He sees us as perfect because we're believers, so that's ok.

(1 John) "Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not a child of God"...*interpretation*, well that's ok, because He sees us as righteous anyway.

They are taught "salvation is by faith not works" *interpretation* I have faith, so I can carry on the way I am. But Ya'akov says that our faith is proved by our works.

I think when people see other believers observing Torah it challenges them and convicts them that there's more to it than just mental assent to the Lordship of Yeshua, but they are quite comfortable with their own lives and really don't want to be different, but would rather walk as close to the world as possible...

People also forget that Yeshua came to save us *from* our sin, not *in* our sin, and that being a believer means a change in lifestyle to produce fruit in keeping with their faith.


Unfortuately I think it's mainly down to false teaching in the church, along with the fact that many believers are happy to accept what comes from their pulpits without checking it out for themselves to see if it's correct. A lot of people believe their pastor must be right because he's had theological training, and who are they to go against him. I believe we should be like the Bereans who even checked up on what Sha'ul said in order to make sure it was true.

I also believe that the preaching of a *lazy* faith (where one doesn't have to do much else except believe) leads to laziness in terms of people searching the Scriptures for themselves.

I could be wrong...but this is just my opinion...

 

[~Nikki~]

I had a few other thoughts while busy cleaning...cleaning the house is good thinking time...

I'm from England originally, and in my country replacement theology is BIG. We got taught the Law of Moshe is for the Jewish people, and because of their disobedience God has finished with them. Therefore we're all under the NEW covenant, under the law of the Spirit, not the law of Moshe...in fact we're under grace not law, and if a Jewish person comes to Yeshua they must do it the way we do...forget the law of Moshe and be under the 'new covenant', eat pork, keep Sundays etc etc. They probably don't realise that Sha'ul (whose writings are preached all the time) still observed Torah after his Damascus Road experience.

Consequently, the Tanakh is hardly ever read in churches there, and if it is, all the Scriptures have to be 'spiritualised' or taken allegorically because the church as a whole believes God is done with Israel...so everything is spiritualised, made to mean whatever the pastor wants it to mean, people consequently stop taking the Scriptures literally, and therefore their walk with God is all 'spiritual' with little or no literal, and little or no literal leads to being able to pick and choose what one feels they do or don't have to do, therefore making one's faith somewhat watered down.



Also, churches are taught that the God of Israel in the Tanakh is different from the God of the NT. God is loving, gracious, merciful, kind now, and not an awful lot else. They don't teach that the God of Israel is the same God who is the Father of Yeshua, and that the God who judged Israel will do the same for everyone...that the God who pronounced curses and judgements on Israel for disobedience, and blessings for obedience will also do the same to believing Gentiles who are grafted in to the same olive branch....

To me, Western churches (definitely the ones I've attended in the past) seem to say that the old covenant (Torah) is over, and now Jewish people who come to faith in Yeshua must do it in the same way as us Gentiles because 'we've got it right', rather than seeing that the Gentiles are grafted in and our faith should look more Jewish, rather than Jewish people being 'Christianised'.




I appreciate that this might not be everyone's experience, but it's definitely mine...

 

[stone]

I'm not afraid of the Torah, and i try and learn more and more as often as i can.

Faith and grace has not fed and clothed the poor in Africa and elsewhere around the world.

It is very simple to keep kosher, not difficult at all. Unless you try and buy breakfast at a fast food restaurant. lol

 

[Andyman_1970]

Thank you for all your responses and may He give you His Shalom..........

One question (with reference to the second post) who's "Achi"?

 

[Talmidah]

One question (with reference to the second post) who's "Achi"?

"my brother".

Achoti would be "my sister"

 

[Knowledge3]

"my brother".

Achoti would be "my sister"

Hello

What is the discipline of faithfully reading the Torah and study called? I'm not sure.

 

[Andyman_1970]

"my brother".

Achoti would be "my sister"

Cool thanks..........I was afraid it was some secret nickname I'd been given.......LOL

 

[LJB42]

Hi ya'll.
I'm sure it feels like this for most newbies...that we are butting in on a conversation not meant for us...but I'll fight through it. Been reading this website without joining for a few months now and am actually a little familiar with a few of ya'll and how you represent yourselves. I'm very impressed with the overall spirit and understanding of this website and this section especially. Let it be known I don't feel very worthy, which is why I waited so long to join. It has made me cry many a time the hearts being expressed here...

Anyway,
I also come from an evangelical Christian church background, was essentially "called out" of it in a way that I still to this day can not fully explain other than it just was an uncomfortable urgency and something I just knew in my spirit was being required of me, was lead directly to many of the premises of Torah teaching, my Hebraic roots as a Christian, the lie that is replacement theology, the lies inherent in Faith and many Grace messages....and as others have mentioned it was a pretty fearful thing to step out from my comfy little world that I had created and shaped with the protection of a churchified theology surrounding it.
Thank G-d (forgive me if I forget to do this consistently, I want to be conscious not to offend) that my ENTIRE family at almost the same time all felt this same wooing to come out from where we were at and seek HIM outside of any comfort zones. It really eased alot of my potential pain and confusion, and I can only imagine how hard it must be for others that have attempted it or want to do it without the support and understanding of those around them.
I have a few friends that have claimed over the past few years that they feel the same urging to get out there with "us", but usually one of the sticking points seems to be that their Christian families are TOTALLY against it. Like others have mentioned, it is (without any thought or prayer or hesitation) very often immediately labeled as a cult or trying to start something new and anti-christian. It is beyond some of them that I do not currently belong to a church as an official member, and therefore I am in major error. We have a true sabbath congregation as a "house" church, but since its on Saturday it is not very legitimate in many opinions.
I agree with jgonz and her points, to me it is fear masked with a facade of "I know I'm saved, I know my pastor is right, and I know I don't have to acknowledge anything else because all that stuff is passed away..." type of self-confidence and it only leads you to the sit back and relax attitude that SO many of us Christians are afflicted with these last days.

since I don't want to make anyone's eyes bleed on my first ever post I guess that's my first 2 cents...
I know this, Love availeth much, so I try to conduit the Father's love through me to everyone right where they are at and just let the Truth fill me so hopefully nothing but the Truth comes out of me, effectual and loving...

 

[ValleyWalker2]

"G-d is pulling His own people out though and we're seeing more and more of us every day"

This attitude certainly won't change too many hearts! It seems nowadays that everone is slicing and dicing the bible to fit what they feel will make them more Godly.
You have to read this bible translation not that one. You have to follow these seven steps or you may have to live on the poor side of heaven. You shouldn't wear those clothes or listen to that music or talk to those people or go to worship on that day or in that building. It makes me sad when I think what we could and should be doing instead of bickering and looking down our noses at each other. That's all I have to say about that.

Galatians 5:1

 

[Talmidah]

What is the discipline of faithfully reading the Torah and study called? I'm not sure.

well, the study of torah would be 'talmud torah'. Is that what you're asking?

(mods...if not okay to answer these kinds of questions, please delete)

 

[jgonz]

"G-d is pulling His own people out though and we're seeing more and more of us every day"

This attitude certainly won't change too many hearts! It seems nowadays that everone is slicing and dicing the bible to fit what they feel will make them more Godly.
You have to read this bible translation not that one. You have to follow these seven steps or you may have to live on the poor side of heaven. You shouldn't wear those clothes or listen to that music or talk to those people or go to worship on that day or in that building. It makes me sad when I think what we could and should be doing instead of bickering and looking down our noses at each other. That's all I have to say about that.

No one is talking about slicing and dicing the Bible... I was talking about the fear of REALLY looking at the Bible from a Hebraic perspective.

Yeshua/Jesus was JEWISH, He behaved as a Jew, lived as a Jew, spoke as a Jew. The average Christian church today is oblivious of that fact, and they treat the Old Testament as something archaic and unbelievable. They pick and choose... slice and dice... to fit their own agenda.

The average Messianic Wants to know the whole truth, Refuses to slice and dice, Refuses to just accept what the pastor says or what granny says concerning the Bible's teachings.

Step out of the box and look at the Bible with a Hebraic/Jewish perspective and you'll find all sorts of cool stuff that we've never been taught before... It's not scary.

 

[Knowledge3]

well, the study of torah would be 'talmud torah'. Is that what you're asking?

(mods...if not okay to answer these kinds of questions, please delete)

Yes, by Torah I mean the Pentateuch of the first 5 books of the Old Testament of YHWH. Don't worry, I will be fine.

I do not know Greek or Hebrew. Yet

(I'm asking what Jewish instructors call the discipline of Torah study?)

 

[Talmidah]

Yes, by Torah I mean the Pentateuch of the first 5 books of the Old Testament of YHWH. Don't worry, I will be fine.

I do not know Greek or Hebrew. Yet

There are a couple of hebrew speakers on this forum (I'm just a beginner). They may be able to help more.

The reason for the msg in small print is that, being Jewish, I'm allowed to ask questions and post fellowship msgs in here, not answer questions. But hopefully something like this falls sort of under fellowship since I'm not answering anything about doctrine or beliefs. But I added the message just in case I've crossed the line....has nothing to do with you or your question