Why Does Sin Have to be Punished?

jimmyjimmy said:

Can't God grade on a curve? Must He be so stringent, when it comes to sin?

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Because it leads to murder, over time.

First small sins, and then if those are merely accepted and the person has zero sense of consequences of any kind, then....more and more follows.

Murder is the outcome, in time, if wrongs had no consequences.

I think this is why we must be truly changed to be able to enter into eternal life.

Hammster said:

So you are just making Him like a pretty good guy.

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Indeed, isn't Jesus good?

Alithis said:

Universalism is a doctrine of devils..-end.

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Well you sure showed me. Better get the holy water....

Symph said:

Well you sure showed me. Better get the holy water....

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What does it mean if it sizzles when applied? j/k

Forgive me....

OrthodoxyUSA said:

What does it mean if it sizzles when applied? j/k

Forgive me....

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No no, I started it, you just played along. I'll sit in the corner ......

Wrong post sorry.

The thing is we have to be pretty spotless when it comes to "parade time" .That, of course, is who gets to enter Heaven or not.So although we are justified through Christ's sacrifice.He continues to sanctify or polish us up on a daily basis to achieve His goal with us "As you sent me into the world.I have sent them into the world.For them, I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified."(N.I.V.Jn17:18)
For His purpose, we have a special Christian gymnasium or fitness facility or boot camp in Hebrews 12:7-8 where "If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not.8But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons...12.Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless, afterward, it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby."King James Version) There is no place for "sin" in this process by Christ in us getting nothing less than "for our profit that we might be partakers of his holiness"(Verse 10b).So "holiness " is the only standard acceptable before God.Anything less than that is"missing the mark ."
The harmatia !

jimmyjimmy said:

Can't God grade on a curve? Must He be so stringent, when it comes to sin?

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You don't understand the law and it's purpose, look at these verses.
1 John chapter 1 verse 8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
James chapter 2 verse 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

1 Timothy chapter 1 verse7, 8
They want to be teachers of the law but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.
We know that the law is good if one uses it properly.
Galatians chapter 3 verses 24,25,23
So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law. Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed.

jimmyjimmy said:

Can't God grade on a curve? Must He be so stringent, when it comes to sin?

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Why do families of murder victims fight for their whole lives to see justice prevail? Can't society be a little lenient?

jimmyjimmy said:

Can't God grade on a curve? Must He be so stringent, when it comes to sin?

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There are a few points to be made here. Firstly, we need to know that sin damages, and can even destroy our relationship with God. In Holy Scripture we are even told straight up that the wages of sin are death. Death of our relation with God is death of our souls, and therefore hell, (eternal separation from God). There ARE sins which are more grave than others, and God DOES "Grade on the curve" so to speak. There is sin which is fatal to the relationship between God and man, and this is called mortal sin. These sins inflict a mortal wound to our relation with God because we have specifically chosen to perform a sin of very grave matter, and with full knowledge of it's depth of severity, have gone on to do the sin anyway. But even mortal sin can be forgiven if that forgiveness is asked for with a fully contrite heart, and there is an honest repentance, that is a turning away from the sin, and an acceptance of the consequences in temporal punishment. For instance, while in prison for intentionally murdering someone, you find that you are sorrowful and contrite. You turn to God and ask his forgiveness. You are forgiven. But this doesn't change the fact that you must spend the rest of your life in prison, or possibly even be executed by the State. What it DOES mean, is that when all temporal punishment is done, then you will be in Heaven. But why punishment at all? Punishment is the right result of the natural law written on our heats by God in the concept of justice. In a perfect world, it would be accepted with grace and gratitude because it is reparation for our sin, and enhances our acceptance, (if taken with a contrite and sorrowful heart), of what is due in the scale which it is deserved. (i.e. probation for petty theft, and execution for 1st degree murder). There are various gradations in the civil system which correspond to God's law written on our hearts. Justice should not be confused with vengeance. Vengeance when issued or done by man is a violation of what is in God's domain, and therefore a sin in and of itself. People who are revenge seeking in their hearts, particularly when dispatching justice due to the nature of the crime committed, or the stain of that sin, are in active hatred. Hatred, Jesus tells us, is commensurate with murder. Whole books can and have been written on this subject. This is as brief as I can get it. I hope you get some more concise responses.

jimmyjimmy said:

Can't God grade on a curve? Must He be so stringent, when it comes to sin?

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God can grade however he pleases to grade.

But you raise an interesting question. Are you suggesting that when Adam sinned, God could not have imposed a different punishment on Adam than death?

FireDragon76 said:

You are still making God subject to an external standard, namely, your notion of justice

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No, I am observing a law that comes from the heart of who God is. The standard comes from Him.

Anguspure said:

Now you confuse sin before God and the things that are needed to support human society. In an ideal world, the Kingdom, they would be equivalent, in this world they are not.

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But I was talking about God's judgment, not man's. Not sure what you are trying to say here...

jimmyjimmy said:

Can't God grade on a curve? Must He be so stringent, when it comes to sin?

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Reading some of your other posts I think you know the answer, but I'll bite.

God has a nature that is holy.

He does not tolerate anything but holiness in heaven.

Since man is inherently unholy since the fall, God must provide a way to convert unholy people to holy ones.

The cross fulfills that goal as well as demonstrating God's great love and willingness to sacrifice himself for his creation.

As to the why question there is a near-infinite number of choices God could have chosen to accomplish his goals but certain solutions such as suspending his creations ability to have free will are not feasible given his alternative goals, namely agents that are free to love him or reject his love.

jimmyjimmy said:

Can't God grade on a curve? Must He be so stringent, when it comes to sin?

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Sin is often described as "missing the mark". This is right on target. But a better phrasing would be "Sin is not being like God". And how is God? What are His characteristics?
Read Matthew chapter 5. Then you will know.

Many kids had a harsh father that demanded strict adherence to a set of rules. In the same way, most view the Father in this way. But they are wrong.
He is not a hard taskmaster. In fact, you can stick to all the written rules and still not be like God. Jesus will one day tell many to go away because he never knew them. How could that be?
Could it be that their whole religious life was really a sham because their hearts were never really pure?

Jimmy... can I ask you? What makes a sinner be called a sinner? Is it really the SIN they do? hehe

Punishment. Adam and Eve...they sinned. They missed the mark. God punished them how? Kicked them out of the Garden? Cain kills his brother. How did God punish him? Before the law.. would you like a LIST of all the SINS so to speak they did in which there was NO LAW to brake? Again.. what makes a SINNER a SINNER? The SINS one does?

1st.. were talking about a GOD and as long as we look at Him try to understand HIM through mans eyes.. you never will. You will never see nor understand as long as we take this GOD bring Him down to our level of understanding. I was born into sin. I never once made a choice I had none. GOD know this. He knew this before the world was. Christ was coming planned before all this. The law.. that was the way GOD wanted it? No.. they told GOD what THEY COULD DO! Didnt work out for them at all. God has ALWAYS wanted to be EVERYTHING you want you need. Always wants you to expect HIM to ALWAYS be there ...be the ONLY answer to EVERY problem..yet your made in HIS image so FREEDOM as given to you.

Now.. there is punishment for sin any more. Behold the lamb of God that what? Takes AWAY the SIN of the world. Of what? For WHO? Takes AWAY... so what SIN are you bring before HIM.. you think He STILL sees? Again.. your looking at what you DO that some who makes you a SINNER. GOD can not lie.. once you believe this.. I truly believe faith will never be a problem. Who ever is born of God does not sin.. does not practice sin. Some say can not sin. Seem like a lie..since even John said ..we all HAVE sin.

What about YOU is BORN of God? hehe.. SPIRIT..yeah.. your SPIRIT can not..does not sin. God said.. OLD man is passed off ALL not some...not if you FEEL like it... but ALL things have become NEW! Does not matter if you believe it or not.. ITS DONE! He can not die again for your sin you do today. Were talking about a GOD. Stop seeing JESUS just as some man. So..this PUNISHMENT was ALL put on JESUS...going BACKWARDS and FORWARDS. For the WORLD. What is the GOOD NEWS?

If you FOCUS on what HE DID for you.. how RIGHTEOUS you ARE and HOLY you ARE. NOT because of YOU..that will NEVER EVER happen. Its ALWAYS CHRIST! He is YOUR righteousness. HE IS YOUR holyness. He is EVERYTHING that HE has ALWAYS wanted for you. You got into this by a lie that YOU didnt do. He knows this. He made a way out. TAKE IT! And HUSH!

If you focus on HIM how HE said YOU ARE.. all that SIN old man will just GO! We are NOT free to sin.. GOD FORBID.. and as Paul said.. man how can we? But.. its dead.. its gone.. but you have to KEEP RENEWING your mind.. since our FLESH has not been changed..YET. But the old man is dead..

For me.. its like my kids. I love them.. no matter what they do or say... my love never changes.. and they are STILL my kids. What they DO does not effect them being my kids. Now..they can hurt me...for that they say sorry... not a good example..but.. and forgive me Jimmy if I missed what you were really asking..

I do SEE and hear what so many say here.. and I have to ALWAYS keep saying what the WORD says not how I feel or what I do..that I think.. wow.. He should really.. haha

jimmyjimmy said:

Can't God grade on a curve? Must He be so stringent, when it comes to sin?

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What happens when you remove the light from a room? It becomes dark. Is the room being punished with darkness? No. It's just dark.

This thread is remarkably free of Scripture. I'd like to see some indication that God actually does punish every sin no matter how minor, before discussing the reasons why.

The Bible shows punishments of various kinds: in the OT we have what is in effect the municipal code of Israel. The prophets talk about Israel as a whole being punished for widespread, unrepentant sin.

In the NT most talk of punishment is from Jesus, but his account of punishment represent the results of a whole life that's either useless (no fruit) or in serious opposition to God. For Paul's letters, judgement is for those who persecute Christians, or who reject Christ.

But I'm not seeing where God sends someone to hell for imperfection. Indeed Jesus teaches that this is not the case.

Symph said:

Well you sure showed me. Better get the holy water....

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Holy water?
In not Catholic .
But perpetuating lies... ?
Don't mind me..explain that to God.