Why Does Sin Have to be Punished?

[FireDragon76]

Yes, He must. His holiness demands it.

So God isn't free? He does what he does out of necessity?

 

[Anguspure]

I'm sorry, Jimmy, I wasn't clear. I didn't mean to imply that God sees all sin equally. My point was that God's goodness and holiness is such that all sin is extremely repugnant to Him, and in His eyes they are all worthy of severe punishment... if a white lie is morally repugnant to Him, what must worse sins be like in His eyes? A just judge would make sure that those who committed such severe crimes would be isolated from the rest of society.

Now you confuse sin before God and the things that are needed to support human society. In an ideal world, the Kingdom, they would be equivalent, in this world they are not.

 

[Anguspure]

So God isn't free? He does what he does out of necessity?

I see a Euthypro dilema brewing.

God does not do anything that fails to reflect the truth of who He is. Truth is a person, that person is God.

 

[Hammster]

So God isn't free? He does what he does out of necessity?

He can't go against His nature. He could no more let sin go unpunished as He could lie.

 

[FireDragon76]

I see a Euthypro dilema brewing.

God does not do anything that fails to reflect the truth of who He is. Truth is a person, that person is God.

If he "has to punish sin" then he isn't free to forgive in the first place.

 

[FireDragon76]

He can't go against His nature. He could no more let sin go unpunished as He could lie.

So God lacks freedom?

 

[Hammster]

So God lacks freedom?

No, not what I said.

 

[Anguspure]

If he "has to punish sin" then he isn't free to forgive in the first place.

If you consider that forgivness is something that is "free" then you might be correct.
But of course because of the nature of moral justice is that this is an impossibility, and the God of Abraham is just. But He is also Loving and Merciful and so in order to fulfill both aspects of His nature in relation to sinful mankind He comes to earth in His image, in the person of Jesus of Nazareth, and takes upon Himself the just punishment for sin and extends the justice served to all mankind.
Justice is therefore not free. Rather it is served by the death of our Lord Jesus.

 

[Anguspure]

So God lacks freedom?

Euthypro

 

[FireDragon76]

But of course because of the nature of moral justice is that this is an impossibility, .

You are still making God subject to an external standard, namely, your notion of justice

 

[Hammster]

You are still making God subject to an external standard, namely, your notion of justice

How do you know God isn't lying about everything?

 

[FireDragon76]

How do you know God isn't lying about everything?

Jesus seems like the trustworthy type.

 

[devin553344]

Can't God grade on a curve? Must He be so stringent, when it comes to sin?

God doesn't punish sin here on earth for the majority. Man does. There are courts and judges, jury and we the people in the United States that punish some sin for the most part. Otherwise the final judgment is in the book of revelation where people are judged according to their works. Which seems fair to me.

A baby who has no works is judged very little if at all, a sinner is judged more against them, and a do gooder is judged for them.

Seems fair to me, I like God, he's Good!

 

[Hammster]

Jesus seems like the trustworthy type.

So you are just making Him like a pretty good guy.

 

[Hammster]

God doesn't punish sin here on earth for the majority. Man does. There are courts and judges, jury and we the people in the United States that punish some sin for the most part. Otherwise the final judgment is in the book of revelation where people are judged according to their works. Which seems fair to me.

A baby who has no works is judged very little if at all, a sinner is judged more against them, and a do gooder is judged for them.

Seems fair to me, I like God, he's Good!

When have you gone to court for lying?

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Can't God grade on a curve? Must He be so stringent, when it comes to sin?

The mistakes of Anselm of Canterbury. Scholasticism gone wrong.

Christ God took death upon himself so that man would not be uncreated.
I would also point out that the ground was cursed for the sake of Adam.
Adam himself was never cursed directly by God.

Christ God redirected and removed the punishment. Trampling down death by death.

Forgive me...

 

[devin553344]

When have you gone to court for lying?

I see your point normally liars don't go to court unless in business, but there is this: Politicians and doctors etc go to court for lying, and people that are required to be witnesses in a court proceeding get in deep trouble for lying, it's called contempt of court or perjury and stuff, you can go to jail for it.

BTW I went to court once, a business deal guy called me a liar and put a lean on my car actually. He said I didn't do the work I agreed to

 

[dqhall]

I see your point normally liars don't go to court unless in business, but there is this: Politicians and doctors etc go to court for lying, and people that are required to be witnesses in a court proceeding get in deep trouble for lying, it's called contempt of court or perjury and stuff, you can go to jail for it.

BTW I went to court once, a business deal guy called me a liar and put a lean on my car actually. He said I didn't do the work I agreed to

I served on a Federal District Court jury during a lawsuit hearing. The plaintiff's lawyer was not speaking the whole truth and nothing but the truth. He was not under oath either. You do not see politicians going to jail for making false campaign promises.

Sin results in punishments. Alcoholics sometimes die of liver cancer. Gluttons die of coronary artery disease. Those who live by the sword die by the sword, etc.

 

[Hammster]

I see your point normally liars don't go to court unless in business, but there is this: Politicians and doctors etc go to court for lying, and people that are required to be witnesses in a court proceeding get in deep trouble for lying, it's called contempt of court or perjury and stuff, you can go to jail for it.

BTW I went to court once, a business deal guy called me a liar and put a lean on my car actually. He said I didn't do the work I agreed to

If you notice, the higher the authority you lie against, the more severe the crime.

 

[bling]

Can't God grade on a curve? Must He be so stringent, when it comes to sin?

How can the intangible sin be punished?
The sinner is the one in need of Loving discipline (punishment) for all the benefit Loving discipline provides Like:

It is a deterrent for the person being disciplined and others aware of the discipline which keeps them from repeating the action.

It places the value on the transgression (the greater severity to the disciplining the greater the transgression), sometimes we do not know how much pain it has caused until we know the how we will be disciplined for the transgression.

It shows fairness and justice, the parent/judge needs to be consistent and we want to know we have a fair and just parent/judge.

It is a way to put the transgression behind us, since we have done the time for the crime.

It also should strength and improves the relationship between the parent and the child it is a teaching moment.

We know wonderful parent see to the discipline of the children they Love if at all possible, so if our parents do not discipline us, we should rightfully question their love/concern for us.

A wonderful Loving Parent does not want to punish His children even for rebellious disobedience, but does want them to experience Loving discipline.

Further explanation is in the tread on the same subject;

Did God forgive our debt of sin or did Jesus pay our debt of sin?