Why does most of all SDA proof text....

[Cribstyl]

Why does most of all SDA proof text seem to be taken out of context?


When Jesus said "keep my commandments," He is talking about what He spoke after His baptsm from John.

 

[ebia]

Why does most of all SDA proof text seem to be taken out of context?

Isn't that the point of proof-texting?

 

[JudaicChristian]

Why does most of all SDA proof text seem to be taken out of context?


When Jesus said "keep my commandments," He is talking about what He spoke after His baptsm from John.

Only those who obey God's commandments are the Elect who enter into life.

Matthew 19:17
"Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."

Revelation 12:17
Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring—those who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

Revelation 14:12
This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God's commandments and remain faithful to Jesus.

 

[JudaicChristian]

The Sabbath was given to mankind, not the Jew. Those who love God keep his Sabbath commandment.

 

[Stryder06]

Why does most of all SDA proof text seem to be taken out of context?


When Jesus said "keep my commandments," He is talking about what He spoke after His baptsm from John.

Jesus is God. Jesus gave us the ten commandments. The two commandments in the NT are a summation of the ten from the OT. The same summation for those ten can be found in the OT in both Leviticus and Deuteronomy.

So yeah it seems to fit fine as far as I can tell.

 

[Cribstyl]

Jesus is God. Jesus gave us the ten commandments. The two commandments in the NT are a summation of the ten from the OT. The same summation for those ten can be found in the OT in both Leviticus and Deuteronomy.

So yeah it seems to fit fine as far as I can tell.

Hmmm, it may fit fine into SDA commentary, but the fact is; Jesus differentiated between what was given to Moses for the Children of Israel and what He was commanding at the sermon on the mount. This is one of many reasons to realize that what was written in the Law and especially what was written on stone served it's generations.
Mat 11:13For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

Luk 16:16The law and the prophets [were] until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

The mediator in the ministration of the law is the witness against those under the law.


Luk 16:29Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.


Jhn 5:39Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Jhn 5:40And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
Jhn 5:41I receive not honour from men.
Jhn 5:42But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.
Jhn 5:43I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
Jhn 5:44How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that [cometh] from God only?
Jhn 5:45Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is [one] that accuseth you, [even] Moses, in whom ye trust.

Act 15:21For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

LLOJ subscribes with glee!!!

 

[Stryder06]

Hmmm, it may fit fine into SDA commentary, but the fact is; Jesus differentiated between what was given to Moses for the Children of Israel and what He was commanding at the sermon on the mount. This is one of many reasons to realize that what was written in the Law and especially what was written on stone served it's generations.
Mat 11:13For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

Luk 16:16The law and the prophets [were] until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

The mediator in the ministration of the law is the witness against those under the law.


Luk 16:29Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.


Jhn 5:39Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Jhn 5:40And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
Jhn 5:41I receive not honour from men.
Jhn 5:42But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.
Jhn 5:43I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
Jhn 5:44How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that [cometh] from God only?
Jhn 5:45Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is [one] that accuseth you, [even] Moses, in whom ye trust.

Act 15:21For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

This is because you don't think that the moral law still stands as it is written. Part of the law did indeed serve its purpose up till Christ came. The moral aspect of the law however wasn't meant to pass away. It's meant to reveal sin. As long as there is sin in the world there will be a law to reveal and ultimately judge it.

 

[VictorC]

Why does most of all SDA proof text seem to be taken out of context?

Well, that's what the moniker "proof text" means!

When any group takes a verse and applies it in deference to the contextual meaning of that verse, it is usually done to force a conclusion that was made separately from the Biblical narrative. The practice isn't new, as Isaiah 28 records the thought process behind the practice:

9 “ Whom will he teach knowledge?
And whom will he make to understand the message?
Those just weaned from milk?
Those just drawn from the breasts?
10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept,
Line upon line, line upon line,
Here a little, there a little.”
11 For with stammering lips and another tongue
He will speak to this people,
12 To whom He said, “This is the rest with which
You may cause the weary to rest,”
And, “This is the refreshing”;
Yet they would not hear.
13 But the word of the LORD was to them,
“ Precept upon precept, precept upon precept,
Line upon line, line upon line,
Here a little, there a little,”
That they might go and fall backward, and be broken
And snared and caught.

This describes taking one verse and applying it to another verse that is unrelated - "Line upon line, line upon line, Here a little, there a little" to come up with a new message you will not find in the context. The practice is a curse that will ensnare those who employ it.

When Jesus said "keep my commandments," He is talking about what He spoke after His baptsm from John.

To be a little more specific, His commandments are what He issued to His redeemed - and they are not from the first covenant.

1 John 3
18 My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth. 19 And by this we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him. 20 For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things. 21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.

 

[VictorC]

Jesus is God. Jesus gave us the ten commandments. The two commandments in the NT are a summation of the ten from the OT. The same summation for those ten can be found in the OT in both Leviticus and Deuteronomy.

I just posted the two commandments found in the new covenant, and strangely enough what you're describing doesn't sound like them.

You wouldn't be thinking of Matthew 22:34-40, that answers a question posed by an attorney qualifying the answer from the first covenant law, would you?

 

[Stryder06]

I just posted the two commandments found in the new covenant, and strangely enough what you're describing doesn't sound like them.

You wouldn't be thinking of Matthew 22:34-40, that answers a question posed by an attorney qualifying the answer from the first covenant law, would you?

Couple of things. The commandment to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ sounds like a commandment from the Father. I don't recall Christ giving us that commandment.

Of course to believe in Jesus you have to have faith that He is who He said He is. And if you believe that you'll believe Him when He said that if you love me you'll keep my commandments. Those commandments just so happen to be to love God and our neighbor which just so happen to be the same commandments that were given to the Israelites of old. So yeah, it all works.


Edit: So Vic, do you believe that the NC does not include the commandments to love God and to love our neighbor as our self?

 

[VictorC]

Couple of things. The commandment to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ sounds like a commandment from the Father. I don't recall Christ giving us that commandment.

Of course to believe in Jesus you have to have faith that He is who He said He is. And if you believe that you'll believe Him when He said that if you love me you'll keep my commandments. Those commandments just so happen to be to love God and our neighbor which just so happen to be the same commandments that were given to the Israelites of old. So yeah, it all works.

Perhaps you can explain why Jesus Christ issued us a new commandment that replaced Leviticus 19:18 shortly before He took that first covenant component away:

John 13:34
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another.

You never did answer me concerning the two commandmens you were referring to.

 

[Stryder06]

Perhaps you can explain why Jesus Christ issued us a new commandment that replaced Leviticus 19:18 shortly before He took that first covenant component away:

John 13:34
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another.

You never did answer me concerning the two commandments you were referring to.

Mark 12:31And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

So one of two things here. Either Jesus is simply saying the same thing differently thus not replacing the command in Leviticus but rephrasing it, or He is contradicting Himself.

And my statement was a direct response to your post about the two commandments. I added an edited statement in case you missed it.

 

[VictorC]

Mark 12:31And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

So one of two things here. Either Jesus is simply saying the same thing differently thus not replacing the command in Leviticus but rephrasing it, or He is contradicting Himself.

Jesus did neither.
Mark 12:28-31 quotes from the first covenant.
The new covenant wasn't even in its tenure yet, wasn't even the topic.

And my statement was a direct response to your post about the two commandments. I added an edited statement in case you missed it.

Asking me for an opinion isn't reliance on Scripture.

 

[Stryder06]

Jesus did neither.
Mark 12:28-31 quotes from the first covenant.
The new covenant wasn't even in its tenure yet, wasn't even the topic.

Asking me for an opinion isn't reliance on Scripture.

So you're saying that the commandments of the NC are the commandments given in 1 John?

 

[VictorC]

So you're saying that the commandments of the NC are the commandments given in 1 John?

You haven't cited anything different than them, have you?

 

[Stryder06]

You haven't cited anything different than them, have you?

I'm just trying to get a straight yes or no because you'd be the first person I head that from. Mostly everyone else around here that claims the NC says the only two commandments we now have are Love God and Love your neighbor as yourself.

 

[VictorC]

I'm just trying to get a straight yes or no because you'd be the first person I head that from. Mostly everyone else around here that claims the NC says the only two commandments we now have are Love God and Love your neighbor as yourself.

Stryder, are you going to determine what Scripture says by reading the Scripture or appealing to argumentum ad populum?
Where do you find the commandment to love God that you think we have been commanded in the new covenant?
With God living in His redeemed, do you think there's a need for this commandment?
Stryder, do you know what event inaugurated the new covenant?

 

[tall73]

John 13:34
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another.

So one of two things here. Either Jesus is simply saying the same thing differently thus not replacing the command in Leviticus but rephrasing it, or He is contradicting Himself.

The commandment is new because they (the disciples in context) are to love one another as Jesus loved them.

They lived with Him during His ministry and He showed them how to love. Now they are to continue that love.

It is new. He had not come in the flesh before, and had not demonstrated the apex of love before. He said this as He was about to go to the cross for them, showing true love.


Notice the verse right after:

Joh 13:35 By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another."


They will recognize the love that the disciples have for one another as the love that Christ showed while He was on earth.


This is new. This is God's Son becoming flesh and demonstrating true love.



The command to love one's neighbor applied broadly as Jesus demonstrated in the parable of the samaritan.

But this command is directing them to particularly love fellow disciples as a sign to the world of their being Jesus' disciples.

 

[visionary]

Couple of things. The commandment to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ sounds like a commandment from the Father. I don't recall Christ giving us that commandment.

Of course to believe in Jesus you have to have faith that He is who He said He is. And if you believe that you'll believe Him when He said that if you love me you'll keep my commandments. Those commandments just so happen to be to love God and our neighbor which just so happen to be the same commandments that were given to the Israelites of old. So yeah, it all works.


Edit: So Vic, do you believe that the NC does not include the commandments to love God and to love our neighbor as our self?

WHy do people think that Yeshua would think or do anything differently from His Father?