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Benoni

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I love types in scripture; what a beautiful hidden language that goes beyond all religious doctrines and carnal minds.

Clearly it is written, "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in His own order; Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at His coming." (I Cor. 15:22-23). There is no doubt concerning the totality of salvation for every man-- whatever was affected by death through Adam, shall be MADE ALIVE THROUGH CHRIST. The triumph of Christ is far greater than the sin of Adam. But the point that is before us is that of TIMING-- with "every man in his own order." There is DIVINE ORDER in this NEW CREATION that is being brought forth, as God gathers one by one a people unto Himself. From Calvary until this present time, God has been working in what is rightly termed "HIS FIRSTFRUITS." We who are living at the ending of this age (web ed. note: which still could be a long ways away) are still being drawn into this "firstfruits order." But never forget, the firstfruits of a harvest are the PROMISE that all the rest of the harvest will follow in its time.

"The first Adam died to God and righteousness, and became alive unto sin. The last Adam died unto sin (Rom. 6:10), and liveth unto God, and so fulfilleth all righteousness. The first made all men sinners, the last makes all men righteous. The lives and the deaths of the two Adams are thus greatly contrasting the one to the other. The FIRST DEATH was a transition from life to death, the SECOND DEATH is a transition from corruption to incorruption, from mortality to immortality. Transformed from the carnal mind to the spiritual mind, which is life and peace, which transformation is wrought by a dying out to the one realm, to come alive to the higher realm. Because -- the second death is prepared to purge out and burn away sin and its results, and so doing cleanse all of God's universe. Death came as an enemy, the fruitage of an act of disobedience that turned man away from God and into the realm of carnality, minding self and flesh. Now God makes death overcome itself. It is by death that death is rendered powerless, and there arises an upspringing, a new life. It takes death to destroy death, and thus Christ 'did taste death for every man' --'that through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; and deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage' (Heb. 2:9, 14-15). Since we are all under the effects of the first death, it is appointed unto us to die once more -- not physical death, we are already in a state of mortality -- but now a dying out to this present death state. We conquer this death of the carnal mind by dying to it -- only God could use such a process bringing victory, but praise God, lie is destroying the first death with the second death" -- end quote. (Ray Prinzing)
 
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holyrokker

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The Bible does not say God changed Adam; but if you look at the Genesis with open spiritual eyes; and not traditional teaching eyes, it is there. Yes God rested on the seventh day; but look a little closer.

These words can be used by anyone at any time to draw all sorts of wild, unbiblical teachings. It is a false teaching that leads to dangerous cults.

God gave us a mind because He wants us to use it. He gave us His word because He wants us to read it and understand what is PLAINLY written in it.

God does NOT want us to draw wild speculative ideas, and say "The Spirit taught me that" when it isn't in His word.

Do not draw your own conclusions and claim it to be some "spiritual" revelation.

That the work of dangerous - yes even DEMONIC - teaching!

I offer no apologies for the tone of this post.
 
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dancinggurl54

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Sir, After Adam ate the apple thats where sin came, and thats when his eyes opened after he ate the apple. Genesis 7. Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves. Doesn't say anything about spiritual or traditional eyes being opened.. Yes he was made in the image of God. He didn't set Adam up, yes he knew that Adam would do it, but he still had the choice to do it or not. Just like me, I have a choice to continue to follow christ or not! No one is making me follow christ, its my own choice. And I have faith! God is definitly not making me believe in him, it comes by my faith. Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. If we didn't have the choice to do anything, then we would all agree with everything. A power of choice had to come from some where. k im done lol.. i know what i believe..
 
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dancinggurl54

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I agree with you!
 
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Benoni

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If you have a problem with what I am saying go after what was said; not the one line I introduced how you approach truth; how do you approach truth? You say God gave you a mind will use it unless you mind is so dead spiritually everything has to fit in your preconceived bias. I see many minds in this forum; religious minds, carnal minds and once and a while a spiritual mind; and the biggest one is closed minds. What kind of mind do you have.

I cannot and will not fit God’s Word in a man made box; it is like a river that flows and gets deeper and deeper; in fact so deep at times you cannot no longer stand; that is where faith comes in.

Jeremiah 2:13 For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can
hold no water.

Another symbolism water being God’s Word… I have a cistern in my basement and it holds no water. All that is left is four hard walls (religion). I offer no apologies for the tone of this post.

Explain how what I said was demonic teaching?
 
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Benoni

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[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'] [/font]

So you are saying that Adam; who ate forbidden fruit; which was not an apple; became naked; praise God we agree. Do you really think God cares if we are naked physically; I know that is a big deal to humans; but what is God saying? You see before Adam and Eve ate of the forbidden fruit they were covered by God’s glory; they did not need cloths; the glory of God covered them. You see our garment spiritually speaking is what we believe; the priest in the OT did not wear wool; because it caused them to sweat (works). Or

Joseph’s coat of many colors, actually the Hebrew brings out many pieces. (in other words God’s Word is made up of many pieces)

Isa. 28: 9 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

So why was being naked so relevant; because it was the first religious act; a covering other then God. So what religion is your belief or covering?

Freewill:

Show me where is says in scripture where you have a choice or freewill towards salvation or anything God wills.

The very people who swear by the Bible never bothered to look up the word freewill in scripture. Oh sure you can find the word Freewill in the OT when it comes to the Hebrew Freewill offering; BUT that feast has nothing to do with basic salvation.

It is not a matter of freewill; (we are saved by grace not freewill) free will is a non scriptural word that has nothing to do with any ones salvation. God call/calls/draws/drags people which is totally contrary to the religious man made doctrine from Rome. God draws us or if you dig a little harder He drags us; there is NO FREE WILL when you are being drawn or dragged in fact it totally to the contrary sound scripture.

Romans 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after Go

John 6:44"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws (drag Greek) him, and I will raise him up at the last day
1670 helkuo (hel-koo'-o); drag

Jeremiah 18:2
Arise, and go down to the potter's house, and there I will cause thee to hear my words. 3 Then I went down to the potter's house, and, behold, he wrought a work on the wheels. 4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

Romans 9:12 15 For He says to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy and I will have compassion (pity) on whom I will have compassion.) 16 So then [God's gift] is not a question of human will and human effort, but of God's mercy. [It depends not on one's own willingness nor on his strenuous exertion as in running a race, but on God's having mercy on him.] 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, I have raised you up for this very purpose of displaying My power in [dealing with] you, so that My name may be proclaimed the whole world over. 18 So then He has mercy on whomever He wills (chooses) and He hardens (makes stubborn and unyielding the heart of) whomever He wills. 19 You will say to me, Why then does He still find fault and blame us [for sinning]? For who can resist and withstand His will? 20 But who are you, a mere man, to criticize and contradict and Why have you made me thus? 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same mass (lump) one vessel for beauty and distinction and honorable use, and another for menial or ignoble and dishonorable use?
 
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dancinggurl54

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I wasn't saying anything about being naked thats just part of the scripture.. But im done!
 
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holyrokker

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He was made to sin; he is a slave to sin, God created us in a sin body we inherited from our GGGGGrandfather Adam.
Sin cannot be inherited. That would make sin a physical problem; one that could be cured, or treated physically.

If sin is genetic, (inherited) than Jesus died in vain.
 
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Benoni

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Sin cannot be inherited. That would make sin a physical problem; one that could be cured, or treated physically.

If sin is genetic, (inherited) than Jesus died in vain.

I guess you have never read:
Romans 5:18-20 (Weymouth’s)
It follows then just as the result of a single transgression is a condemnation which to the whole race, so also is the result of a single degree of righteousness is a life giving acquittal which extends to the whole race. (19) for as thought the disobedience of one individual the mass of mankind were constituted as sinners, so also though the obedience of one, the mass of mankind will be constituted righteous. Now law was brought in later on so that the transgression might increase, but sin increased, grace is overflowed.
 
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holyrokker

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Let's try a slightly more literal translation - English Standard Version, and back up to verse 15 of that same chapter (yes, I've read it.)

Romans 5:15-20 (ESV)
Notice the comparisons: What Paul is comparing are the results of Adam's sin with the results of Christ's death. Paul is making the case that the result of Christ's obedience has a greater impact than the sin of Adam.

If you take the premise literally that all are sinners and condemned in the one act of Adam, then you'd have to hold the premise that all those who are condmened in Adam are justified in Christ.

In other words - if everybody is automatically a sinner because of Adam, everbody is also automatically forgiven and made righteous because of Christ.
 
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Benoni

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Don't ask me I did not write the scripture
 
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Benoni

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God made us for the purpose of sinning? May the Lord have mercy on you for such blasphemy.


Read your Bible???????

Romans 8:20 (NLT) Against its will, all creation was subjected to God’s curse. But with eager hope, 21 the creation looks forward to the day when it will join God’s children in glorious freedom from death and decay.

(NASB) 20For the creation (A)was subjected to (B)futility, not willingly, but (C)because of Him who subjected it, [a]in hope 21that (D)the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

(NIRV) Romans 8: 20 The created world was bound to fail. But that was not the result of its own choice. It was planned that way by the One who made it. God planned 21 to set the created world free. He didn't want it to rot away completely. Instead, he wanted it to have the same glorious freedom that his children have

 
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Hentenza

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That is what happens when a verse is taken out of context to attempt to prove a point. Now read it in context:

18I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. 19The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed. 20For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God. 22We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has? 25But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.
26In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. 27And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God's will.
 
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Benoni

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20For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice (Adam's fall), but by the will of the one (God) who subjected it,


This verse first declares te fall of man/creation/Adam happened NOT BY ITS OWN CHOICE (no freewilll here)


BUT: by the will of te ONE...... There is your context; and then it goes on to why and how God will fix it.


I understand and acknowledge context in many important writings and document; but context as nothing to do wit scripture. The whole Bible is it own context and this is so easily proven. Take the story of Cain and Abel; why was Abel’s sacrifice more acceptable to God then Cain’s. The answer has noting to do with context; the whole Bible is its own context; because of spiritual patterns and examples; in fact the answers to why Abel’s sacrifice was more acceptable was answered in the Book of Hebrews, not Genesis.

Hebrews 11:3-5
3Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
4By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.




Romans 5:18-20 (Weymouth’s)

It follows then just as the result of a single transgression is a condemnation which to the whole race, so also is the result of a single degree of righteousness is a life giving acquittal which extends to the whole race. (19) for as thought the disobedience of one individual the mass of mankind were constituted as sinners, so also though the obedience of one, the mass of mankind will be constituted righteous. Now law was brought in later on so that the transgression might increase, but sin increased, grace is overflowed.


1 Corinthians 15:22-24

22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.


 
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Hentenza

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The bible is not be read in context? So, I guess folks can just interpret individual verses as they please irregardless of context? I guess we should just throw out theological hermeneutics out the window.:o

You know, with your method I could actually write a kidnapping ransom note using a few verses.
 
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