Why does hell exist?

[GodLovesCats]

That "that they cry out with pain unto all eternity," is an unjustified extraploation of the passage in Revelation I referred to earlier and is perhaps only justified if the the Hellenistic view of Jewish scripture is more correct than the original Hebrew understanding.

Because it is Scripture, calling it unjustified is the same as claiming God is a liar.

 

[Tyler52]

Mainstream Judaism was largely Hellenised by about the time of the Septuagint. If we want to determine pre-hellenistic Jewish thought we need to go back further from that, and if we want to investigate Jewish thought free of all pagan philosophy we need to look before the Babylonian diaspora and Talmud.

Even before then, as scripture itself reveals, the Jews had allowed themselves to be heavily side tracked by pagan thought to the extent of forgetting where the Scriptural books were even stored.

So to drag up some Jewish thinking from the 1st century as if it reflects the unadulterated truth according to the words given in the Law and the Prophets is patently wrong.

The Torah in Hebrew contains not a hint of dualism.

Tell me, are you a reconstructionist or a reformist Jew?

 

[Rubiks]

.....The type of evidence I asked for was credible, verifiable, historical evidence which proves Justin wrong? Is there any other historical writing at or after the time of Justin which refutes his statement "they are not punished unless they are conscious of the punishment?"
.....As for you quote from the Jewish Encyclopedia as interesting as it may be for you is not relevant to my post in any way.
Here is something the Bible says about some kind of conscious awareness after death.
…..In Isa 14 there is a long passage about the king of Babylon dying, according to many the dead know nothing. They are supposedly annihilated, destroyed, pfft, gone! But God, Himself, speaking, these dead people in שאול/sheol, know something, they move, meet the dead coming to sheol, stir up, raise up, speak and say, etc.

Isa 14:9-11 (KJV)
9) Hell [שאול ] from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
10) All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?
11) Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, [שאול] and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
[ . . . ]
22) For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the LORD.​

In this passage God, himself is speaking, and I see a whole lot of shaking going on, moving, rising up, and speaking in . These dead people seem to know something, about something. We know that verses 11 through 14 describe actual historical events, the death of Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon.
…..Some will argue that this passage is figurative because fir trees don’t literally rejoice, vs. 8. They will argue that the passage must be figurative since God told Israel “take up this proverb against the king of Babylon.” vs. 4. The occurrence of one figurative expression in a passage does not prove that anything else in the passage is figurative.
…..The Hebrew word םשל/mashal translated “proverb” does not necessarily mean something is fictional. For example, Israel did not become fictional when God made them a mashal/proverb in 2 Chronicles 7:20, Psalms 44:14, and Jeremiah 24:9.
…..The jews considered Isa 14:9-11 to be factual.

Jewish Encyclopedia-Gehenna
“When Nebuchadnezzar descended into hell, all its inhabitants were afraid that he was coming to rule over them (Shab. 149a; comp. Isa. xiv. 9-10).”
GEHENNA - JewishEncyclopedia.com​

…..Here is another passage where God, Himself, is speaking and people who are dead in sheol, speaking, being ashamed, comforted, etc.

Ezek 32:18-22, 30-31 (KJV)
18) Son of man, [Ezekiel] wail for the multitude of Egypt, and cast them down, even her, and the daughters of the famous nations, unto the nether parts of the earth, with them that go down into the pit.
19) Whom dost thou pass in beauty? go down, and be thou laid with the uncircumcised.
20) They shall fall in the midst of them that are slain by the sword: she is delivered to the sword: draw her and all her multitudes.
21) The strong among the mighty shall speak to him out of the midst of hell [שאול] with them that help him: they are gone down, they lie uncircumcised, slain by the sword.
22) Asshur is there and all her company: his graves are about him: all of them slain, fallen by the sword::[ . . . ]
Eze 32:30-31
(30) There be the princes of the north, all of them, and all the Zidonians, which are gone down with the slain; with their terror they are ashamed of their might; and they lie uncircumcised with them that be slain by the sword, and bear their shame with them that go down to the pit.
(31) Pharaoh shall see them, and shall be comforted over all his multitude, even Pharaoh and all his army slain by the sword, saith the Lord GOD.​

Jesus speaking, in the NT a dead man in Hades had eyes, was in torment, saw Abraham, “cried and said,” asked for water, begged Abraham, etc.

Luk 16:22-28
(22) And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
(23) And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
(24) And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
(25) But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
(26) And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
(27) Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
(28) For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

​

Like I said, evidence isn't necessary because its a philosophical question. Quit ignoring what I said.

The OT contains no doctrine of an afterlife other than some resurrection of the dead in Daniel. In fact it explicitly denies one exists in several places:

Psalm 6:4-5 NRSV:

Turn, O Lord, save my life;
deliver me for the sake of your steadfast love.
For in death there is no remembrance of you;
in Sheol who can give you praise?

Notice it says "in death there is no remembrance of you" in the simple indicative mood.

Even according to the Jewish Encyclopedia admits this about Sheol:

The dead merely exist without knowledge or feeling (Job xiv. 13; Eccl. ix. 5).

Thirdly, understanding the rich man and Lazarus as a literal description of the afterlife makes the Jewish concept of the resurrection of the dead superfluous. It would seem much more akin to the Greek idea of a immortal soul trapped in a body. (Admittedly, elsewhere Luke seems to have a Greek-influenced theology of the afterlife)

As for Isaiah 14, My Oxford Study Bible (uses the NRSV translation) says that Isaiah seems to be inspired by the Mesopotamian myth "Descent of Ishtar/Inanna" and notes The Canaanite divine names "Day Star" and "Son of Dawn" in verse 12. Isaiah is apparently using this as an analogy for the downfall of the Babylonian king mentioned in verse 4.

 

[DennisTate]

God is the Creator of all things. He loves everything He created, according to Genesis 1. But God hates Satan and demons and does not want anyone to live in the lake of fire that He created. I don't get it. My mom said a loving God would not create hell because He does not want people to suffer eternally, so she does not believe it exists. Why isn't this true?

I suspect what near death experiencer George Ritchie saw about this back in 1943 may help us to understand the larger picture.

(near-death .com)
d. His Description of the Horrors of Hell

They were still somewhere on the surface of the Earth; but no living person or beings of light could be seen. Before them was a plain jammed with hordes of spirits who are the most miserable and angriest beings he has ever seen. Many were engaged in hand-to-hand combat with no weapons - trying in vain to hurt and kill those who didn't agree with them. A lot of verbal abuse could be heard between them as their thoughts could be heard by everyone around them the moment they are thought. Ritchie is horrified as he wonders what living in such a realm would be like - a place where you cannot hide from who you really are. These spirits were locked into destructive thought-patterns, rage and uncontrollable lust. Some were trying in vain to get sexual gratification from each other. The wailing coming from the hordes of unsatisfied spirits was tremendous. Other spirits were in despair saying things such as, "I always knew!" and "Didn't I warn you!" Ritchie realizes this place is truly hell. Their obsessive thoughts and emotions extended beyond the physical realm and into the spiritual realm where they cannot be satisfied. Yet there was nothing preventing any of the poor spirits in these realms from leaving. There was no condemnation coming from Jesus either - only compassion for these miserable spirits. Ritchie realizes Jesus hadn't abandoned any of them here. Instead they fled from the light to escape from having the darkness of their heart from being revealed.

e. His Observations of the Temple of Wisdom

The following is the testimony of George Ritchie's Temple of Wisdom and Heavenly City Experience: They then travel to a completely different realm where some kind of enormous university is located. Spirits dressed as monks busily and happily engaged in some form of artistic behavior or research. An enormous library exists here where all the important books of the universe are assembled. Ritchie asks Jesus if this is heaven. These are the spirits of people who grew beyond selfish desires while on Earth; but, like the spirits in hell, these spirits cannot see Jesus either.

 

[Der Alte]

Despite what you want to believe, the Bible tells us that God saves His enemies ultimately.

Quote the scripture that says that please?

If you have an issue, take it up with John the Revelator and his final vision which explicitly and undeniably shows all the nations emerging repentant from the fire to enter into the City of God for worship and healing. Or haven't you read to the end of the book yet? If not, sorry for the spoiler.

I have read and taught through the Bible several times in the past almost 60 years. And John the revelator does not show "all the nations emerging repentant from the fire to enter into the City of God for worship and healing."
In Rev. 21 vss. 4 through 8 are one continuous narrative. The events occur in they way they are listed. The narrative cannot be broken up and parts said to happen at an earlier time.
.....If "all the nations emerging repentant from the fire to enter into the City of God for worship and healing." then the following verses cannot be true.

Revelation 21:4-8
(4) And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
(5) And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
(6) And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
(7) He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
(8) But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.​

Vs. 4 no more death.
Vs. 5 "I make all things new."
But in vs. 8 eight groups of people are thrown into the lake of fire which is the second death.

Revelation 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it [new Jerusalem vs. 2] any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.​

Revelation 22:14-15
(14) Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
(15) For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.



​

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Quote the scripture that says that please?

I have read and taught through the Bible several times in the past almost 60 years. And John the revelator does not show "all the nations emerging repentant from the fire to enter into the City of God for worship and healing."
In Rev. 21 vss. 4 through 8 are one continuous narrative. The events occur in they way they are listed. The narrative cannot be broken up and parts said to happen at an earlier time.
.....If "all the nations emerging repentant from the fire to enter into the City of God for worship and healing." then the following verses cannot be true.

Revelation 21:4-8
(4) And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
(5) And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
(6) And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
(7) He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
(8) But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.​

Vs. 4 no more death.
Vs. 5 "I make all things new."
But in vs. 8 eight groups of people are thrown into the lake of fire which is the second death.

Revelation 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it [new Jerusalem vs. 2] any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.​

Revelation 22:14-15
(14) Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
(15) For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.



​

Ok have it your own way, the nations aren't the enemies of God and don't come into the City repentant and worshiping God after not being devoured by fire and/or not turfed in the lake of fire. That's just not what happens and not in that order.

 

[Anguspure]

Because it is Scripture, calling it unjustified is the same as claiming God is a liar.

False interpretation of scripture that maligns the character of God is also a habit of the father of lies.

 

[Anguspure]

Tell me, are you a reconstructionist or a reformist Jew?

Neither. I am a believer in and follower of Yehushua ben YHWH.

 

[Kaon]

God is the Creator of all things. He loves everything He created, according to Genesis 1. But God hates Satan and demons and does not want anyone to live in the lake of fire that He created. I don't get it. My mom said a loving God would not create hell because He does not want people to suffer eternally, so she does not believe it exists. Why isn't this true?

Hell is a consequence.

Technically, hell is merciful. Instead of the entities that rejected their first estate being completely obliterated by the Holiness of the Most High God (who not only cannot stand sin, but His Radiance dissolves it completely), these entities get to exist in another dimension, albeit one that is completely devoid of the Most High God (except that He exists everywhere there is creation).

The Most High God loves the fallen sons of God, and He made a place for them even in their iniquity. But Hell was never made for men; nevertheless, if we choose to follow after lesser gods, the Most High (being a Gentleman) will let you follow those lesser gods to their new estate.

Hell is also a promise for the righteous - it lets the righteous know that there will be a place prepared for all those that oppose, subjugate, enslave and murder [the people of] the Most High God. Again, it is a mercy from the Most High God for the righteous.


Hell is a mercy in the same way a prison is a mercy instead of lethal injection. Prison is not fun; it isn't meant to be fun. However, you still exist.

 

[Anguspure]

Hell is a mercy in the same way a prison is a mercy instead of lethal injection. Prison is not fun; it isn't meant to be fun. However, you still exist.

Prison and the eternal life in torment model of hell bear no resemblance whatsoever.

If hell is a place of temporary punishment and correction before being permitted to re-join normal life then I guess there could be a resemblance of sorts.

However cruel torture is not normally a feature of prison life and intelligent Corrections Authorities have long recognized that hardship and pain only lead to worse people, not better people. Healing and growth require good relationships, Love and nurture in order to take place. We don't send people with burns, broken legs or influenza to the gulag for a reason and it is for the same reason that punitive prison environments are singularly unsuccessful in repairing broken hearts and minds and very rarely produce model citizens.

Standard prisons are a mercy to law abiding society but they are of little use to the incarcerated. That is why visiting those imprisoned is of such importance to Yehushua that He identifies with them to the extent that a visit with a prisoner is a visit with Him, and ignoring a prisoner is ignoring Him.

The prisoners in concentration camps during the second world war wrestled with the issue of death vs torment and for many of them the prospect of death was indeed a mercy against the torment they faced and for those that disagreed there was yet hope of a release.

The eternal life in torment model might be a mercy for the righteous but only if their hearts are a bit twisted. I have known a number of people who have died denying Christ as saviour and the thought that they might suffer for eternity because of that mistake, and so I can continue a nice life is thoroughly horrifying and repugnant. That some members of my own family might suffer the same fate sends my head and heart into a very low place.

If I could be persuaded any differently it would be through such hardening of my heart and hatred for my fellow man that I suppose I would then be of great service to a certain well known political movement from Germany. If hell is destruction better and far more merciful that they no longer exist and at least rest in peace, not that death is a preference, it is horrifying enough, but at least then there is an end to the horror.

 

[Kaon]

Prison and the eternal life in torment model of hell bear no resemblance whatsoever.

If hell is a place of temporary punishment and correction before being permitted to re-join normal life then I guess there could be a resemblance of sorts.

However cruel torture is not normally a feature of prison life and intelligent Corrections Authorities have long recognized that hardship and pain only lead to worse people, not better people. Healing and growth require good relationships, Love and nurture in order to take place. We don't send people with burns, broken legs or influenza to the gulag for a reason and it is for the same reason that punitive prison environments are singularly unsuccessful in repairing broken hearts and minds and very rarely produce model citizens.

Standard prisons are a mercy to law abiding society but they are of little use to the incarcerated. That is why visiting those imprisoned is of such importance to Yehushua that He identifies with them to the extent that a visit with a prisoner is a visit with Him, and ignoring a prisoner is ignoring Him.

The prisoners in concentration camps during the second world war wrestled with the issue of death vs torment and for many of them the prospect of death was indeed a mercy against the torment they faced and for those that disagreed there was yet hope of a release.

The eternal life in torment model might be a mercy for the righteous but only if their hearts are a bit twisted. I have known a number of people who have died denying Christ as saviour and the thought that they might suffer for eternity because of that mistake, and so I can continue a nice life is thoroughly horrifying and repugnant. That some members of my own family might suffer the same fate sends my head and heart into a very low place.

If I could be persuaded any differently it would be through such hardening of my heart and hatred for my fellow man that I suppose I would then be of great service to a certain well known political movement from Germany. If hell is destruction better and far more merciful that they no longer exist and at least rest in peace, not that death is a preference, it is horrifying enough, but at least then there is an end to the horror.

Prison is a real life metaphor for hell - all layers, and all conditions just like everything else. Humans put their own conditions on the Most High God, so naturally similar non-existent conditions may apply to hell, and even heaven.

The Most High God Himself said that the SMOKE of the unrighteous goes up forever; your "torture" may or may not be "forever" as He can destroy the spirit.

Hell is meant for entities that have campaigned against His children to get US to stay away from our Father. Don't romanticize these entities. Do you expect the Most High God to give them a paradise to ruin like they did in their first age? Anyone who wants to willingly disrupt the creation of the Most High God needs to be separated from the rest of creation. You are missing the forest for the trees with your disdain.

There are always consequences to actions.

 

[GodLovesCats]

False interpretation of scripture that maligns the character of God is also a habit of the father of lies.

Are you thinking of a specific false interpretation here?

 

[Shrewd Manager]

If hell is destruction better and far more merciful that they no longer exist and at least rest in peace, not that death is a preference, it is horrifying enough, but at least then there is an end to the horror.

The good news is that our God is not a spiritual terrorist, nor an arsonist who sells fire insurance, nor for that matter an ultimate loser. His words are arrows like strong men, none fall to the ground.

I invite you to consider Ezekiel 47:1-12, which describes the stream issuing from the temple:

I saw water coming out from under the threshold of the temple toward the east (47:1)

As the prophet is led away from the temple, the stream swells from ankle-deep (47:3) to knee, then waist (47:4), soon to become a river too great to cross (47:5).

He said to me, “This water flows toward the eastern region and goes down into the Arabah, where it enters the Dead Sea. When it empties into the sea, the salty water there becomes fresh." (47:8)

And when the Dead Sea is refreshed by the river water:

Swarms of living creatures will live wherever the river flows. There will be large numbers of fish, because this water flows there and makes the salt water fresh; so where the river flows everything will live (47:9)

It ALL GOES LIVE! And then?

Fishermen will stand along the shore; from En Gedi to En Eglaim there will be places for spreading nets. The fish will be of many kinds... (47:10)

'Haul em in', says the great Fisher of Men to His servant crew.

So can this be the prophecy of the final vision of Revelation? Let's compare Ez 47:12 and Rev 22:2.

Fruit trees of all kinds will grow along both sides of the river. The leaves of these trees will never turn brown and fall, and there will always be fruit on their branches. There will be a new crop every month, for they are watered by the river flowing from the Temple. The fruit will be for food and the leaves for healing.”

In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

Captain, I think we have a dna pattern match on all points.

So bro, is this not definitive consistent high-grade prophetic teaching of end times rebirth and restoration of all in the lake of fire fed by the river of life flowing from God's temple? Now that's GOOD NEWS worth singing about!

 

[Tyler52]

Neither. I am a believer in and follower of Yehushua ben YHWH.

Are you a black Hebrew Israelite, or are you part of the Hebrew roots movement?

 

[Tyler52]

The good news is that our God is not a spiritual terrorist, nor an arsonist who sells fire insurance, nor for that matter an ultimate loser. His words are arrows like strong men, none fall to the ground.

I invite you to consider Ezekiel 47:1-12, which describes the stream issuing from the temple:

I saw water coming out from under the threshold of the temple toward the east (47:1)

As the prophet is led away from the temple, the stream swells from ankle-deep (47:3) to knee, then waist (47:4), soon to become a river too great to cross (47:5).

He said to me, “This water flows toward the eastern region and goes down into the Arabah, where it enters the Dead Sea. When it empties into the sea, the salty water there becomes fresh." (47:8)

And when the Dead Sea is refreshed by the river water:

Swarms of living creatures will live wherever the river flows. There will be large numbers of fish, because this water flows there and makes the salt water fresh; so where the river flows everything will live (47:9)

It ALL GOES LIVE! And then?

Fishermen will stand along the shore; from En Gedi to En Eglaim there will be places for spreading nets. The fish will be of many kinds... (47:10)

'Haul em in', says the great Fisher of Men to His servant crew.

So can this be the prophecy of the final vision of Revelation? Let's compare Ez 47:12 and Rev 22:2.

Fruit trees of all kinds will grow along both sides of the river. The leaves of these trees will never turn brown and fall, and there will always be fruit on their branches. There will be a new crop every month, for they are watered by the river flowing from the Temple. The fruit will be for food and the leaves for healing.”

In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

Captain, I think we have a dna pattern match on all points.

So bro, is this not definitive consistent high-grade prophetic teaching of end times rebirth and restoration of all in the lake of fire fed by the river of life flowing from God's temple? Now that's GOOD NEWS worth singing about!

Nations=church
If it didn't and everyone will be saved then why bother sending missionaries? Will Nero and Hitler also be with us? What about Balaam and Ahab? Stalin and Pol Pot? Moa Zedong? All of the people who were left in Sheol by Jesus? Furthermore why would God sending people to hell make him a terrorist? He's only enforcing the law.

 

[GodLovesCats]

Manager, what DNA match do you see in completely different passages? One is about ifsh. The other one is about trees.

 

[Anguspure]

Are you thinking of a specific false interpretation here?

An interpretation that shows YHWH to be a sadistic torturer i.e. the one that has people living in the horror of suffering for eternity.

 

[Anguspure]

Are you a black Hebrew Israelite, or are you part of the Hebrew roots movement?

I have already told you what I am; a believer in and follower of Yehushua ben YHWH. It's funny but I've had to Google the labels you have thrown at me, just to see whether I fit. Sorry not in any of those little boxes.
Brothers and sisters, I could not address you as people who live by the Spirit but as people who are still worldly—mere infants in Christ......For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not mere human beings?......“The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile.” So then, no more boasting about human leaders! All things are yours, whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world or life or death or the present or the future—all are yours, and you are of Christ, and Christ is of God. 1 Corinthians 3

 

[GodLovesCats]

An interpretation that shows YHWH to be a sadistic torturer i.e. the one that has people living in the horror of suffering for eternity.

God does not choose to torture people. It is the sinner's choice to not love Him.

 

[Tyler52]

I have already told you what I am; a believer in and follower of Yehushua ben YHWH. It's funny but I've had to Google the labels you have thrown at me, just to see whether I fit. Sorry not in any of those little boxes.
Brothers and sisters, I could not address you as people who live by the Spirit but as people who are still worldly—mere infants in Christ......For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not mere human beings?......“The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile.” So then, no more boasting about human leaders! All things are yours, whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world or life or death or the present or the future—all are yours, and you are of Christ, and Christ is of God. 1 Corinthians 3

I get what you're saying and I agree with you about denominations (at least that's what I think you're getting at) and they shouldn't exist. I'm not trying to put you in a box, the first one was a joke, the second was just out of curiosity, It's not common to hear people use the proper names of Jesus and God (Yeshua and Yahweh).