Why does God send good people to hell? (Or does He?)

[hlaltimus]

"Good" is a very relative word. God does send what most of us call "good" or basically moral people to hell, but has yet to send a perfect one there and that is where our hope is. We achieve this perfection through the imputation of Christ's penal and preceptive righteousness, both of which are perfect or complete in the eyes of God the Father.

 

[FijianBeliever]

Hi All,

Tricksterwolf,

Can you define what you mean by "good people"?

God Bless You All
Isaia

 

[TricksterWolf]

Hi All,

Tricksterwolf,

Can you define what you mean by "good people"?

God Bless You All
Isaia

I mentioned that difficulty in a previous post. I refer chiefly to people that most can commonly agree have lived upright lives but have not heard of Christ or have not been compelled to believe in Christianity.

The larger issue is the resolution of the existence of Hell for non-Christians and Christians alike. How can an omnipotent God who wants everyone to go to Heaven still send them to Hell? It makes no sense to me, and the idea of worshipping a God that causes men, women, and children to suffer in eternal torment is abhorrent to me. I can't understand why anyone would choose to worship that God.

Trickster

 

[The Virginian]

Here's an old question. I'm sure there will be different points of view. Why does God send people to Hell?

As a child, I once had a teacher that told the class that babies burn in Hell, and the other children found that abhorrent. In fact, this is probably one of the events that led to me leaving the Christian faith; I became convinced that many Christians, in their zeal to worship a God that sends people to eternal torment, were basically worshipping Satan.

So if God isn't evil, why does he send anyone to suffer eternally? Are people really that horrible and worthy of eternal torture? How does worshipping a God that does this not equate with worshipping Satan?

Trickster

A pollster can acheive the end result wished for by wording the questions asked to fit, the desired end.

If one would care to look carefully at the Scriptures, they would find that God set up the criteria for spending time /eternity away from Him, not based upon a persons "goodness", but based upon their acceptance of His free offer of eternal life. The Life is God's life, so basically He's the one who gets to say how, where and when.

There's a much more basic problem at work here, and that is our understanding of creation, and our "right" to have a say in our destiny. "The thing created will not say to it's creator, "Why did you make me thus", will it?"

I will say this again: We're so focused upon how we "feel" that we've entirely forgotten that it was The Son of God, who died in my place! So do you think that your eternity in torment is a greater price to pay than Almighty God turning His back upon His Only Begotten Son, who had become sin in my place, that I might become the righteousness of God in Him!
Who pays the greater price here?

Left to their own devices, yes, people are horrible. It was people, and their sin that killed the Son of God, for crying out loud!

Be careful that you do not blaspheme the Holy Spirit of God !

That is the one sin which one will ever be forgiven

 

[TricksterWolf]

So do you think that your eternity in torment is a greater price to pay than Almighty God turning His back upon His Only Begotten Son, who had become sin in my place, that I might become the righteousness of God in Him!

Who pays the greater price here?

When faced between "Dad turning his back on me" and "an eternity of torment", the latter certainly sounds far worse to me. Jesus' suffering, while noble and just, was finite and short-lived, not even a speck in time when compared to all of eternity. Wasn't it?

Left to their own devices, yes, people are horrible. It was people, and their sin that killed the Son of God, for crying out loud!

I believe it was the Romans and their concern for Jesus' rallying of the Jewish people that crucified him, wasn't it? I didn't crucify Jesus; I would never do such a terrible thing.

Be careful that you do not blaspheme the Holy Spirit of God !

I'm not sure why blaspheming the Spirit is the only unforgivable sin, but I'm not trying to blaspheme anybody. I just don't understand the rationalization of Hell, and I want to hear from Christians who do understand.

Trickster

 

[TexasGirl06]

I believe it was the Romans and their concern for Jesus' rallying of the Jewish people that crucified him, wasn't it? I didn't crucify Jesus; I would never do such a terrible thing.[/font][/font]

Yes, that was what was happening..... by anyone looking on.

But....it was the plan from the very, very beginning. Jesus had to die.
He was the unblemished, sacrificial Lamb.

The "once and for all" sacrifice.
It is finished.
No more sacrifices needed.

I put Him on the cross.
I am not a Jew.
I am a Gentile.

Jesus is part of the Trinity.
Father, Son, Holy Spirit.
Three in One.
All are God.

If Jesus did not want to die that day....
He could have stopped it.
No doubt about that.

He went through with it...
because He loves us.

For God so loved the World,
that He sent His one and only Son,
that whoever believes in Him
shall not perish
but have everlasting life.

He loves you, TrickersterWolf.
Yup.
It's true.
He did it for you.

He was thinking about you when He was on the cross.
He does not want to see you choose Hell.
He wants you to choose eternal life in Heaven.

It's your choice.

It's about True Love.

 

[FijianBeliever]

HI All,

TricksterWolf, the reason why I asked what you meant by "good people" is that definitions differ for what people refer to as being good. A good example is "good weather" which is sunshine for beach goers, calm seas for sailors, big surf for surfers, light rain for farmers who have just planted a new crop etc. M point is that the idea of something or someone being good is made in reference to some standards which differ from person to person ( even amongst Christians....)

The definition of what is good is in the Bible (well, God's definition of what is good is) and people who live up to the standard He set are termed good. These people are the ones who will not go to Hell, but rather to Heaven. THe cathc is that no one could live up to God's standard, so He sent His son to meet His standard, and gain all the benefits of meeting His standard. Because God and Jesus love us, once Jesus gained the benefits of meeting God's standard, He offered the benefits He gained to anyone who wanted it. We can all receive these benefits, all we need to do is accept His offer.

To cut a long story shory, I do not believe anyone is good according to God's standard, so therefore all who go to Hell cannot be good. I'm not good, but I have been forgiven and Jesus has given me all the benefits that He has, eternal life, a place in Heaven etc.

God Bless You All
Isaia

 

[TricksterWolf]

He was thinking about you when He was on the cross.
He does not want to see you choose Hell.
He wants you to choose eternal life in Heaven.

It's your choice.

It's about True Love.

I can't imagine for a moment that anyone would knowingly choose Hell. Some people don't believe what others have concluded about the Christian Bible, because it doesn't make sense to them. That they should suffer eternally for their religious beliefs seems impossibly cruel to me. It's hard for me to imagine worshipping a God that would do this; it feels like the opposite of Love.

Trickster

 

[FijianBeliever]

Hi All,

I can't imagine for a moment that anyone would knowingly choose Hell. Some people don't believe what others have concluded about the Christian Bible, because it doesn't make sense to them. That they should suffer eternally for their religious beliefs seems impossibly cruel to me. It's hard for me to imagine worshipping a God that would do this; it feels like the opposite of Love.

That is SO TRUE !!! Nobody in their right minds would choose Hell. Anyone with an iota of sense would choose Heaven. However, when faced with something so stark, people either accept it and make the right choice or they choose not to believe it. Kind of like married people who find out about a spouse's infidelity for the first time.

Think about it. God is Good. God is Love. God is also very fair. How fair would it be, He told us that Hell exists, and how to avoid it, and when we choose not to heed His warnings, accepts us into Heaven anyway? Not very fair.....

God does not love everyone......this is a common misconception that most people have.

God Bless You All,
Isaia

 

[MikeMcK]

That's seems like it's a quote from where Jesus is denying that he, himself, is good.

Yes and no.

This is the verse you're thinking of, but Jesus isn't denying that He's good.

The man calls Him good and He uses this to illustrate His claim to be God.

The Bible refers literally to a large number of men as "good men", even in the gospels.

Who?

I suppose much of this hinges on the definition of "good". Clearly no man is perfect, but is eternal damnation a fair penance for our daily imperfections?

Trickster

Remember, though, we're not talking about "imperfections". We're talking about transgressions of God's law.

 

[TricksterWolf]

Yes and no.

This is the verse you're thinking of, but Jesus isn't denying that He's good.

The man calls Him good and He uses this to illustrate His claim to be God.



Who?



Remember, though, we're not talking about "imperfections". We're talking about transgressions of God's law.

In Luke, Joseph of Arimathea is explicitly called "a good man", just as one example.

I don't understand how transgressions of God's laws differ from personal imperfections, apart from the weight that you're placing on them?

Trickster

 

[TricksterWolf]

God does not love everyone......this is a common misconception that most people have.

I see! Several of the people in this thread have made that mistake as well.

I'm starting more and more to think that God does not love me, because I fail to feel the touch of the Spirit guiding to believe that the Bible is a book of truth. It still makes no sense to me, after much investigation, and the Christian God still seems very evil to me.

I don't really mind, though. If God is actually good, and I belong in Hell, then that should be the place for me to go. If His will is done, then why would it matter?

Trickster

 

[MikeMcK]

In Luke, Joseph of Arimathea is explicitly called "a good man", just as one example.

Right. Joseph kept the law, but he wasn't righteous of himself.

I don't understand how transgressions of God's laws differ from personal imperfections,

They're two different things. An inperfection is something that you can't help, such as a physical trait or predisposition to do something. A transgression of the law is something that you must actively pursue.

 

[Breaking Babylon]

I see! Several of the people in this thread have made that mistake as well.

I'm starting more and more to think that God does not love me, because I fail to feel the touch of the Spirit guiding to believe that the Bible is a book of truth. It still makes no sense to me, after much investigation, and the Christian God still seems very evil to me.

I don't really mind, though. If God is actually good, and I belong in Hell, then that should be the place for me to go. If His will is done, then why would it matter?

Trickster

As I said before, a lot of people want to accept only the Sunday school, meek and lowly, lamb of God, buddy buddy Christ. Some of us tend to forget the scriptural Lion of Judah, judge of the world, returning with fervent heat.

I don't understand the 'evil' claim at all. Justice, I understand perfectly -- we are transgressors of God's own law. In the court system, whether it's murder or a parking ticket, you aren't exempt. You might say, "But there's an appeal process!"

We have one, also. His name is Jesus Christ. He is Who wipes our slates clean for the glory of God, and this is based on His divine mercy and longsuffering[as opposed to hate]. Why isn't this available to everyone? Because not everyone wants it, apparently. It's a gift given freely, accepted by few.

Yes, God does love us all. If God didn't love the entire world, He wouldn't have sent His Son to die for us all. But does God HATE? Yes, God does hate. God loves all sinners, but God hates all sin.

"Behold, Yahweh's arm is not short that it cannot save, neither is His ear heavy, that it cannot hear. But your iniquity has hidden God's face from you."

We have been given a means to find God. It's not in cleverly placed words or by winning some debate, it's in the blood of Christ, and our own repentance.

I'd urge you again to read Romans.

 

[TricksterWolf]

I don't understand the 'evil' claim at all. Justice, I understand perfectly -- we are transgressors of God's own law. In the court system, whether it's murder or a parking ticket, you aren't exempt. You might say, "But there's an appeal process!"

I think the difference here is that a parking ticket isn't disciplined through eternal suffering. Our justice system (as people) doesn't damn everyone from the moment they're born, and nearly all penalties are reasonable and servable.

Saying that everyone is damned and you have to worship at the right Church or believe the right view of God in order to not suffer eternally doesn't seem remotely just to me; it seems arbitrary and cruel, standards which are the polar opposite of justice.

I will read Romans again. It's still not illuminating for me, unfortunately.

Trickster

 

[Breaking Babylon]

I understand where you're coming from, believe it or not. The thing is, many of us are too prideful to believe we "sin that much."

It'd only be by the grace of God that I go 15 minutes without sin. That's quite a record, when the music stops...

As the Bible says, love covers a multitude of sins, but can it cover the millions, probably billions of sins we commit against the Father in this lifetime? No, it can't. This is why we need Jesus.

I'm sorry that it seems cruel to you, and that I can't share in your grief, but I have much to be thankful for through Christ.

 

[TricksterWolf]

I understand where you're coming from, believe it or not. The thing is, many of us are too prideful to believe we "sin that much."

It'd only be by the grace of God that I go 15 minutes without sin. That's quite a record, when the music stops...

As the Bible says, love covers a multitude of sins, but can it cover the millions, probably billions of sins we commit against the Father in this lifetime? No, it can't. This is why we need Jesus.

I'm sorry that it seems cruel to you, and that I can't share in your grief, but I have much to be thankful for through Christ.

My grief is mainly for other people...I care little for what happens to my soul.

I'm thankful for Creation and my blessings as well.

Trickster

 

[Fantine]

My belief is that God is everywhere, and His love is all around us.

People who are in "hell" are unable to recognize God's love, sometimes because they feel so unworthy, sometimes because their entire life on earth has been spent in other pursuits.

And that sometimes in the light of God's eternal love healing takes place and the soul who feels unworthy and the soul who has made God a "low" priority (as opposed to not making God a priority at all) come to feel His love (that's my concept of purgatory.)

But, in my view, it is our decision--and if we are seeking God He will not abandon us.

 

[WashedClean]

It seems so arbitrary that the random chance of being born into the North American continent would make you so much less likely to burn in Hell than to be born into Asia or Africa. Certainly, anyone can be saved...but clearly God prefers White people?

Or does God simply put the "bad souls" into other races more often?

Trickster

There are more Christians in Korea than in the US. In fact, there are actually less Christians in the US than people think. Not everyone who attends church or was baptised as an infant is a Christian.

Also, there seems to be a theme here that you think people are in Hell because of their beliefs. They are not. If someone ends up in Hell it's because of their sin, not their belief. May sound like semantics, but it's not.

 

[TricksterWolf]

There are more Christians in Korea than in the US. In fact, there are actually less Christians in the US than people think. Not everyone who attends church or was baptised as an infant is a Christian.

Also, there seems to be a theme here that you think people are in Hell because of their beliefs. They are not. If someone ends up in Hell it's because of their sin, not their belief. May sound like semantics, but it's not.

??? But everyone has sin, so the only free variable is belief. Believe, Heaven; don't believe, Hell. Am I not accurate?

Trickster