Why does God keep Himself hidden?

[SkyWriting]

Sorry, Sky, I've been trying my best to make sense of what you write but it's all pretty incoherent to me.

No problem. I usually do not repeat my intended points multiple times, in different ways, as scripture usually does.
This passage explains that "the temple" is not my personal body. It is the group of believers:

17 If anyone destroys God’s temple,
God will destroy that person;
for God’s temple is sacred,
and you together are that temple.

This passage tells us that God's Holy Spirit can reach everyone in the world without relying on scripture or even other believers:

19 For what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.
20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities,His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse.
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified Him as God nor gave thanks to Him, but they became futile in their thinking and darkened in their foolish hearts.…

1) God sent His Son to give His life for us. A Father has no additional obligation past the death of His Son.

This is saying God does not owe us anything more
than His forgiveness. He does not need to come
to us in our dreams or anything. He has done enough.

25But Abraham answered, ‘Child, remember that during your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things. But now he is comforted here, while you are left to suffer. 26And besides all this, a great chasm has been fixed between us and you, so that even those who wish cannot cross from here to you, nor can anyone cross from there to us.’

27‘Then I beg you, father,’ he said, ‘send Lazarus to my father’s house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them so they will not also end up in this place of torment.’

29But Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let your brothers listen to them.’

30‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone is sent to them from the dead, they will repent.’

31Then Abraham said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.’” (See more on "Moses and the prophets" below)

God cannot look directly upon sin (which includes sin in us) without his holy nature burning us instantly to a crisp as a sort of reflex. Let's say you have a pet peeve and somebody does whatever it is that HIGHLY irritates you and causes you to shriek in agony, well it's much like that with God with sin being his pet peeve.

God's perfectness evaporates sin. The only thing left for us is our forgiven spirit. This body has got to go.

 

[Look Up]

I notice that most of you are not answering my question. You are creating your own questions which you then gleefully proceed to answer.

My question is very simple: "Why is God keeping Himself hidden from us?" Or to put it another way, "Why does God not appear to us in a visible way?" Note that this is a 'why' question.

To answer this question and not some other, phrase your answer like this: "The reason God keeps Himself hidden from us is..."

A thought or two by way of possible clarification. Is your question more concerned with epistemology (how we know--in this case, how we know God) or theodicy (in this case, perhaps, why is God instrumental in this world's suffering or not alleviate suffering we are "going through" more [ref. the OP]--with the assumption that "if God revealed Himself in some visible way to His people" [OP], it would in fact be "a great encouragement to us all")?

In the first case, might the question be rephrased as something like, "Why does God reveal Himself in this way and not that?" (assuming you believe God has revealed Himself at least in creation and in the Bible)? In the latter, the question might be rephrased more or less as, "Why does God not encourage us by revealing Himself anthropomorphically more often?" Of course you could answer "both" epistemology and theodicy equally, but then I am afraid reasonable responses might get unwieldy for this forum format.

And if I am more or less on track (an uncertain point with me as of this writing), I am not sure there is an answer that may be inferred from the Bible perhaps other than a variation on the parent's answer of last resort, "Because I said so" (where the parent stands as a metaphor for God)--though I think this has already been said on this thread. Or perhaps one might recall the sufficiency of Scripture (2 Ti. 3:17) and of the goodness of a Sovereign God by way of answer. The good and wise Sovereign has decreed; let us be silent before Him (as more or less noted on posts above) in the face of a paucity of visible, audible epiphanies.

Also already suggested on this thread is that anthropomorphic (or christo-pomorphic) manifestations--epiphanies--might comprise a terror as much as an encouragement, though you might argue terrors to doing evil might keep us on the strait and narrow more--and we are back to the above paragraph.

If I am more or less on track, I think your question a good one, and I suspect in some form one I have wondered at from time to time myself--or otherwise, do you have any further hints as to what you mean?

 

[MechPebbles]

-

 

[twin1954]

No problem. I usually do not repeat my intended points multiple times, in different ways, as scripture usually does.
This passage explains that "the temple" is not my personal body. It is the group of believers:

17 If anyone destroys God’s temple,
God will destroy that person;
for God’s temple is sacred,
and you together are that temple.

This passage does say that the body of Christ, His church, is the temple of God. But there are other passages that clearly tell us that we as individuals are the temple of God.

This passage tells us that God's Holy Spirit can reach everyone in the world without relying on scripture or even other believers:

This is a total misuse and misunderstanding of the passage. What you claim it means is akin to hyper-calvinistic thought where God saves His elect even without the preaching of the Gospel simply because they are His elect.
It denies the clear teaching and plain message that the preaching of the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation to those who believe.

19 For what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.
20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities,His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse.
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified Him as God nor gave thanks to Him, but they became futile in their thinking and darkened in their foolish hearts.…

In its context the passage is showing why no one has an excuse before God.

1) God sent His Son to give His life for us. A Father has no additional obligation past the death of His Son.

This is saying God does not owe us anything more
than His forgiveness. He does not need to come
to us in our dreams or anything. He has done enough.

25But Abraham answered, ‘Child, remember that during your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things. But now he is comforted here, while you are left to suffer. 26And besides all this, a great chasm has been fixed between us and you, so that even those who wish cannot cross from here to you, nor can anyone cross from there to us.’

27‘Then I beg you, father,’ he said, ‘send Lazarus to my father’s house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them so they will not also end up in this place of torment.’

29But Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let your brothers listen to them.’

30‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone is sent to them from the dead, they will repent.’

31Then Abraham said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.’” (See more on "Moses and the prophets" below)

You are mistaken if you think that God owes us anything at all. He was not obligated to send the Son to die in the place of chosen sinners. He did so in order to show His wondrous mercy and grace in the face of Jesus Christ. Salvation in Jesus Christ the Lord isn't about us it is about Him and His glory.

God's perfectness evaporates sin. The only thing left for us is our forgiven spirit. This body has got to go.

God, in sovereign grace and love, has put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself and all those in Christ no longer have any sin. This body, called the flesh, is nothing but a rotting corpse in which we reside until we put it off in death or by the coming of Christ when we will receive new bodies.

 

[twin1954]

In other words, the reason God keeps Himself hidden is because he has determined to keep Himself hidden. LOL!

If He hadn't determined to keep Himself hidden then He wouldn't be. It is no piece of logical nonsense it is logical and true.
You want to deny it because it doesn't satisfy your curiosity but truth must be bowed to not questioned.

And it gets better. For this inspired piece of logical nonsense comes with an authoritative warning:

In other words, if you do not accept this you are not a believer and condemned to eternal hell! LOL! You sound like a self-appointed Old Testament prophet.

This is actually nonsense. You are putting words in my mouth that were never even implied. I simply stated that it should be enough for a believer not that your eternal state rests on it.

You assume far too much.

 

[newlightseven]

Not quite. In a manner of speaking. If you go that direction then you
are really drinking blood and eating His body. Is that where you at?

If you are asking if I believe that by faith that it is the body and blood of Jesus then, yes I do. I am not ashamed!

 

[SkyWriting]

This is a total misuse and misunderstanding of the passage. What you claim it means is akin to hyper-calvinistic thought where God saves His elect even without the preaching of the Gospel simply because they are His elect.
It denies the clear teaching and plain message that the preaching of the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation to those who believe.

How would that cover the handful of people before Jesus came?

20 For
since the creation of the world
God’s invisible qualities,
His eternal power and divine nature...

What I notice is that you just ignore what you don't want to think about.

 

[SkyWriting]

If you are asking if I believe that by faith that it is the body and blood of Jesus then, yes I do. I am not ashamed!

That's not how it tastes to me. I'm guessing Jesus
was not referring to the flavor in my mouth. He
might have said "bitter" or "sweet" if what was
in my mouth was his body.

 

[newlightseven]

That's not how it tastes to me.

It's by faith that it is the body and blood of Jesus. You know the scripture 26While they were eating, Jesus took bread, spoke a blessing and broke it, and gave it to the disciples, saying, “Take and eat; this is My body.” The mysteries and power of how God works are above our thoughts.

 

[SkyWriting]

You are mistaken if you think that God owes us anything at all. He was not obligated to send the Son to die in the place of chosen sinners. He did so in order to show His wondrous mercy and grace in the face of Jesus Christ. Salvation in Jesus Christ the Lord isn't about us it is about Him and His glory.

Then I not mistaken.

 

[SkyWriting]

It's by faith that it is the body and blood of Jesus. You know the scripture 26While they were eating, Jesus took bread, spoke a blessing and broke it, and gave it to the disciples, saying, “Take and eat; this is My body.” The mysteries and power of how God works are above our thoughts.

That last part is your own personal lie.
Or maybe somebody in a big dumb hat said so. Or a tight collar or a special color robe:

19 For what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.
20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities,His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse.
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified Him as God nor gave thanks to Him, but they became futile in their thinking and darkened in their foolish hearts.…

-83- Bible verses about Knowing God

 

[SkyWriting]

This passage does say that the body of Christ, His church, is the temple of God. But there are other passages that clearly tell us that we as individuals are the temple of God.

The MOST CLEAR passage being the sentence just before saying that the group is the temple.

17 Bible Verses about Your Body

 

[SkyWriting]

What you claim it means is akin to hyper-calvinistic thought where God saves His elect even without the preaching of the Gospel simply because they are His elect.

That would include those before Christ. I don't know Mr. Calvin.

 

[Look Up]

Or perhaps one might recall the sufficiency of Scripture (2 Ti. 3:17) and of the goodness of a Sovereign God by way of answer. The good and wise Sovereign has decreed; let us be silent before Him (as more or less noted on posts above) in the face of a paucity of visible, audible epiphanies.

I'm quoting myself to expand on a thought before adding another. My theology says Jesus is the apex and culmination of the divine revelation to man (John 1, Heb. 1), to which one may add His essentially commissioning His disciple/apostles to record what He said while being guided into all truth by the "Comforter-Holy Spirit" (John 14 & 16); in short, the canon of Scripture is complete. This makes me nervous about contemporary competition to the complete and sufficient (there again with the "sufficiency") canon such as Christophanies might be interpreted as producing--not that claims to Christophanies (via dreams, etc.) are beyond possibility of entertaining or necessarily compete with the complete and sufficient canon. But perhaps the sufficiency of what we have may alleviate somewhat the need for Christophanies, at least where the written canon is available.

Another thought is the divine interest in revelation through words rather than through the visible. Of course God performed miracles, for example through Moses, Elijah, and Jesus, but there is particular interest in the Pentateuch (esp.) in de-emphasizing visual manifestations of Deity, this arguably in particular in order to minimize dangers of idolatry. Meanwhile Jesus Himself is the Word--Word par-excellence, if you will. Granted as I fear, I stand in danger of theological over-simplification (yes, the Word became flesh, and so on), but could divine interest in verbal rather than visible manifestations of Himself be weighed in the scales addressing the OP question? Even if auditory-sans-visual divine manifestations may be chosen as preferred?

 

[twin1954]

How would that cover the handful of people before Jesus came?

20 For
since the creation of the world
God’s invisible qualities,
His eternal power and divine nature...

What I notice is that you just ignore what you don't want to think about.

I ignore nothing. It is you who have ignored the context of the passage. It covers all those who are the children of Adam in that the wonder of Creation shows the glory of God.

(Psa 19:1) To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.

(Psa 19:2) Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.

(Psa 19:3) There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.

(Psa 19:4) Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,

The context of the passage is Paul showing how man has taken the things of God which are innate in man and turned them into false idols and figments of men's depraved imaginations. He concludes this by saying that all men are without excuse before God. Read the whole of Romans 1 and 2 so you will get the context.

 

[twin1954]

The MOST CLEAR passage being the sentence just before saying that the group is the temple.

17 Bible Verses about Your Body

I didn't disagree that the passage you quoted says that the group called the body of Christ is the Temple I merely pointed out that there are other passages that just as clearly tell us that we as individuals are the Temple as well.

(1Co 6:15) Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.

(1Co 6:18) Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

(1Co 6:19) What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

(1Co 6:20) For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

These verses are speaking of our individual bodies not the collective body.

 

[twin1954]

Check them out for yourself.

Umar Mulinde
Mosab Hassan Yousef

I looked them up and listened and both men appear to preach more themselves than Christ.

(2Co 4:5) For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.

 

[SpunkyDoodle]

My question is very simple: "Why is God keeping Himself hidden from us?" Or to put it another way, "Why does God not appear to us in a visible way?"

The reason is to try us. It is to see what we are, and what we become, as God reveals Himself to us in our hearts.

1 Peter, Chapter 1
7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Also, It is important that we endure tribulation in this life so we learn patience, and that we wait on the Lord to work in us and in our situations. The person who has smooth sailing all through this life has not been much of a challenge to the enemy. The enemy does not let a person have much ease when they are causing him to lose ground with the people he has in his grip.

The devil was not happy when saloons and taverns closed while Billy Sunday was scheduled to preach in their towns. Whether they did not get much business then, or whether they did not wish to be assailed as doing the devil's work, they typically were not open in those times. Maybe it was out of a guilty conscience.

 

[twin1954]

Then I not mistaken.

What? This is nonsense.

 

[SkyWriting]

What? This is nonsense.

I did not mean to suggest that God owes us.
I stated that a Father who already gave up his only one perfect Son
has no additional obligation as the poster suggested - "He should
also show His face now and then."