Why Does God Exist?

[HopeBforJC]

Why does God exist? What purpose does it hold?

 

[redMountian]

That's a question that philosophers and theologians have been trying to figure out for ages. That and the question of why we exist. Most theists answer this question by saying that God is the reason for our existence. Why God exists is trickier. All we know is that He does. We know He's our Creator and that He Himself is uncreated. All that exists needs God to exist, but God only needs Himself. We continue to know and learn more about God, but we don't know why God.

 

[HopeBforJC]

So is that basically an "i dont know?"

Is Gods only purpose of existence to be worshiped?

 

[HypnoToad]

No, I'd say another purpose of His is to love.

(I'm not saying there's only 2, just that "being worshipped" isn't the only one.)

 

[salida]

HopeB-

God always was. Why does He exist? The creature is asking the Creator why He exists? This is difficult to answer because nothing has created God. He always was and has no beginning or ending. Plus, this question can't be answered as its human reasoning and is therefore not a supernatural concept.

Man didn't invent the concept of God;God created man.

 

[HopeBforJC]

HopeB-

God always was. Why does He exist? The creature is asking the Creator why He exists? This is difficult to answer because nothing has created God. He always was and has no beginning or ending. Plus, this question can't be answered as its human reasoning and is therefore not a supernatural concept.

Man didn't invent the concept of God;God created man.

I understand where the confusion of the question would come into play. Though, I'm not sure that's what I meant.

Everything has a purpose. My pencil, this cup, this keyboard, a road, the sky, the earth, the solar system, the universe, god. I believe everything, even god, has a purpose. But what purpose, what is the reason for its existence?

The only real reason I can come up with for the purpose of God is to be worshiped.

To love-I don't believe that's a purpose. I believe that's an attribute.

 

[OldChurchGuy]

Why does God exist? What purpose does it hold?

Interesting question.

There are those who believe God exists solely due to our imaginations. The existense of God allows us to explain what is seemingly unexplainable at the time. For example, not knowing of the plate techtonic theory of the continents, fault lines, seismic activity, etc., one could conclude that earthquakes are the work/ judgment of God. And since earthquakes always cause death and/or destruction, God must be passing a judgment on the people affected.

There are those who believe God created the known universe, has always existed and is therefore, eternal. Since God is believed to be the creator of the known universe, the purpose would be to acknowledge God as the ultimate source of wisdom and knowledge. This purpose could be by worship, prayer, and/or self-discovery (aka revelation) to name a few.

These are the two basic schools of thought as I currently understand them. There are many variations among both, I am sure.

If you were to ask my take on the two schools, I confess I would go with the second school of thought (a big surprise, I am sure ).

Sincerely,

OldChurchGuy

 

[HopeBforJC]

Interesting question.

There are those who believe God exists solely due to our imaginations. The existense of God allows us to explain what is seemingly unexplainable at the time. For example, not knowing of the plate techtonic theory of the continents, fault lines, seismic activity, etc., one could conclude that earthquakes are the work/ judgment of God. And since earthquakes always cause death and/or destruction, God must be passing a judgment on the people affected.

There are those who believe God created the known universe, has always existed and is therefore, eternal. Since God is believed to be the creator of the known universe, the purpose would be to acknowledge God as the ultimate source of wisdom and knowledge. This purpose could be by worship, prayer, and/or self-discovery (aka revelation) to name a few.

These are the two basic schools of thought as I currently understand them. There are many variations among both, I am sure.

If you were to ask my take on the two schools, I confess I would go with the second school of thought (a big surprise, I am sure ).

Sincerely,

OldChurchGuy

Ok, yeah..that's what I thought.

But isn't it egotistical of god for all he wants us to do is worship him? It reminds me of the movie 300--just came out--and in it the Spartan "king" is told that if he bows down and worships this guy as god he'll get all this stuff. And out of pride he refused to. But the point is that all he wanted was for people to worship him, and the same thing is for god. Isn't that just egotistical?

 

[calidog]

Why does God exist? What purpose does it hold?

I don't know, but if He did'nt we would'nt.

 

[ebia]

Why does God exist? What purpose does it hold?

Why does everything have to have a purpose for existing?

 

[OldChurchGuy]

Ok, yeah..that's what I thought.

But isn't it egotistical of god for all he wants us to do is worship him? It reminds me of the movie 300--just came out--and in it the Spartan "king" is told that if he bows down and worships this guy as god he'll get all this stuff. And out of pride he refused to. But the point is that all he wanted was for people to worship him, and the same thing is for god. Isn't that just egotistical?

In the example you gave, it seems to me that ego is running both ways. The guy who wants to be worshipped and the Spartan "king" who refuses to do so.

As with many things in life, it comes down to interpretation. To believe in the existense of God, to believe that same God created the entire known universe, and to believe that one can be in touch with that God, would be seen by theists as an act of faith. This would be reinforced by various verses in the Hebrew Bible (aka the Old Testament) and the New Testament writings such as God saying that we should have no other God before Him or that we should not create any idol representing God as He is a jealous God. (Exodus 20:3-6).

An atheist could interpret the same argument and verses as the actions of an egotistical God.

Since theists operate on faith first while atheists operate on evidence first (from my perspective anyway), the two will never be able to persuade the other solely by logic/reason that theism or atheism is superior to the other. But, personally, I find the exchange to be a good thing.

Sincerely,

OldChurchGuy

 

[heron]

In Him we live, and move, and have our being, as also some of the poets among you have said, for we are also His children.

Acts 17:28

Look around you at how intricately things operate -- the way you breathe in and out without thinking, the way seeds can grow into monstrous trees with only sun, water, and dirt... no matter how miscroscopic scientists study, there's always something smaller to understand.

The universe holds together and interacts with forces we don't see -- gravitational pulls, centripetal forces, magnetism, sound waves, thermal energy... there is a clockwork and an ordered chaos of aging and conflict that we rest within.

His energy breathes through that system, with an awareness of every minute detail and function.

 

[HopeBforJC]

In the example you gave, it seems to me that ego is running both ways. The guy who wants to be worshipped and the Spartan "king" who refuses to do so.

As with many things in life, it comes down to interpretation. To believe in the existense of God, to believe that same God created the entire known universe, and to believe that one can be in touch with that God, would be seen by theists as an act of faith. This would be reinforced by various verses in the Hebrew Bible (aka the Old Testament) and the New Testament writings such as God saying that we should have no other God before Him or that we should not create any idol representing God as He is a jealous God. (Exodus 20:3-6).

An atheist could interpret the same argument and verses as the actions of an egotistical God.

Since theists operate on faith first while atheists operate on evidence first (from my perspective anyway), the two will never be able to persuade the other solely by logic/reason that theism or atheism is superior to the other. But, personally, I find the exchange to be a good thing.

Sincerely,

OldChurchGuy

Well, I don't really take him creating the earth and existing to be egotistical. But wanting to be #1 and to be worshiped (its ALL over the Bible) seems to me, very egotistical.

I must ask, why do you find that to be a good thing? The differences between theist and atheist I'd say, from a Christian perspective would have to be a bad thing..no? I mean, it's keeping them from believing in God...isn't that supposed to be a bad thing?

 

[039]

It's kind of a hard question. If God didn't exist, nothing would. Why does everything exist? For the glory of God. Why should he be worshipped? For our existence came from his glory. It's one of those questions that will never completely be answered, in my humble opinion, at least in this life. One doesn't have to understand why God exists in order to believe or appreciate it. The bible certainly doesn't tell us why He exists, just that he does and that this is indicated in his world, because frankly it's not important knowledge for the part of our lives we have to live now.

If God didn't exist, everything that he supports and sustains, i.e., our entire universe and existance would also be null. He doesn't exist to be worshipped, he's worshipped because he exists and cares for that which he created. You must realize that your happiness, food, sustenance, and entire human expirence, as well as everyone elses, stems from God. God didn't set it in motion and leave it, waiting for you at the journey's end, but is rather an active part of our everyday being, weither for the christian or non-christian. His role, at least to us and this small fertile planet, is vital for existance. If our existance, then, is as the bible says, is completely dependent on God's careful love and cultivation, and to us christians, finally an saving grace from our imperfect ways, then there is no egotism in it.

God demands glory and worship, yes, but I would like to make several points:

1) Humans benefit the most, I think, from worship, by constantly reminding them who God is and the path he set.
2) Humans that don't worship God usually end up worshipping something else. Kind of a "keep your eyes on me by focusing on me" thing. Is this selfish in itself? No. God created a system that would work his way and only his way because, if we believe God is truely knowledgable, it must have been the choicest of paths.
3) Our worship and glorifying of God effects unbelievers as well, if done out of respect and not selfish reasons.
4) Even if God only demanded worship for himself and him alone, who would we be to question it in the first place? If we create a pot to hold water, we don't expect it to throw the water out and carry dirt instead.

 

[Chalnoth]

It's kind of a hard question. If God didn't exist, nothing would. Why does everything exist? For the glory of God.

If super-God didn't exist, God wouldn't. Why does God exist? For the glory of super-God.

Really what you are proposing here is an infinite regression.

In essence, no matter what we are forced to admit that something either always existed, or exists without cause. There is no less reason for the universe to fill this role than God.

But if God made it all, we are left wondering why there is pain and suffering. After all, if God made it, he must have made it exactly how he wanted it to be. That there is pain and suffering indicates that God wants there to be pain and suffering. This is one argument of many that demonstrates, to me, that the Christian concept of God is simply illogical. It makes absolutely no sense.

 

[039]

That's another question, but... I'll add this: pain and suffering wouldn't make sense... unless it was the imperfect world created by the biblical God made imperfect by the free choice of man. You can say that "well, God cursed it", and this is true, but it was only cursed because of man's choice and dominion over it. The perfect world is coming after this one, if we believe the promises of the bible, but only AFTER letting man run his course with his choices, and the effects of those choices.

And as far as a "super-God", God will suffice. =3 The bible does say "In him we live and have our being".

Er... I hope that responded without debating too much. =x

 

[Chalnoth]

Sorry, shouldn't be posting here.

 

[039]

Well, let me put it this way: I could put a bowl of ice cream infront of my three-year-old nephew and know he would definately go for it. It's not so much that God made man sin, but God did know he would. Free choice includes the inclination to make bad decisions, such as wanting to have God's power. I'm not going to pretend like I have the answers, but as the old christian apologetic goes: Man has freewill to love God, and if he has the freewill to love, there is also the freewill to reject naturally woven in as well. I think the important thing, though, is that God didn't abandon us when we made the wrong choice, but gave us a second chance to begin anew.

God, just by his sheer definition is self-existing, so if he exists he exists as such. It's hard for me to understand, but that just comes with being God. I once was thinking about the concept of eternal life. I couldn't imagine it, because we live in a world where everything comes to an end. In the same way, I don't think we can imagine something just being because it's not part of our expirence as well. My point is, though... er... let me put it this way: If unicorns exist, they have a horn. We can't argue away the horn, it's part of their being. I hope that made sense. =D

Yeahhh.. debate's awesome, especially amongst christians. Sharpens the mind. The moderators don't like debating in outreach, though.

 

[Chalnoth]

Ack! Just realized what forum this was in!

 

[039]

I do that alot, too. xD