Why does God allow us to suffer?

[Locutus]

You dont really seem interested in God, and you seem more interested in accusing him of being mean. How do you know God is responsible for those things? Perhaps man himself is responsible. Would you rather have not been created at all? Is it too much to ask that we should be grateful to exist? God has promised something better.

I'm interested in any god which demonstrates itself to exist. I would take such a god entirely seriously.

And I 'know god is responsible for all those things' because theists keep telling me god planned everything that would ever happen, and created the conditions to ensure these planned things would happen. If this isn't the case, and god didn't plan everything (and create it), then why claim he is all-powerful and all-knowing?

This isn't about personal angst, this is about the profound suffering some of us experience for no good purpose.

 

[Extraneous]

I'm interested in any god which demonstrates itself to exist. I would take such a god entirely seriously.

And I 'know god is responsible for all those things' because theists keep telling me god planned everything that would ever happen, and created the conditions to ensure these planned things would happen. If this isn't the case, and god didn't plan everything (and create it), then why claim he is all-powerful and all-knowing?

This isn't about personal angst, this is about the profound suffering some of us experience for no good purpose.

Ponder the fact that we exist. Do you think that we are really just a cosmic accident? Don't you feel that you are more than that? To me thats evidence of Gods existence. I believe that is the evidence he has given us. I also believe that the gospel is the only thing that makes sense out of this world. I dont know if this will help you, but its why i believe. It goes a bit deeper than that but thats about the gist of it i suppose.

 

[Extraneous]

Now you'll need to define 'spiritual ears'. You've given me nothing which would explain the difference between these 'spiritual faculties' and the imagination and/or wishful thinking. I'm quite serious in asking this. Many claim there is a difference, but no one seems willing to tell us what that difference is. If you genuinely don't know, admitting it isn't a bad thing.

I know because i see the difference in myself and others. I have seen things in different ways, and when i saw them in a new light it was as if i were blessed.

 

[Locutus]

Do you think that we are really just a cosmic accident? Don't you feel that you are more than that? To me thats evidence of Gods existence. I believe that is the evidence he has given us. I also believe that the gospel is the only thing that makes sense out of this world. I dont know if this will help you, but its why i believe. It goes a bit deeper than that but thats about the gist of it i suppose.

No, I don't 'feel I am more than that'. I like to imagine I'm more than that, but there's a universe of difference between the self-aware sentient's desire to end differently to an unwatered houseplant, and reality.

I take it you're saying that your evidence for a god is the fact that you wish you were immortal? If so, I recommend you take some time to really think that through. The implications might surprise (and probably distress) you.

For YOU, the gospel seems to make sense because it salves the open wound of your mortality - which appears to be your primary motivation for believing. For others, different things make sense. For yet others, nothing of an explanatory nature is required in the first place. They accept their mortality for what it is.

Could you explain 'goes a bit deeper'?

 

[Locutus]

I know because i see the difference in myself and others. I have seen things in different ways, and when i saw them in a new light it was as if i were blessed.

I see the difference in others when they go to a Hindu yoga retreat, or accept Allah as their god. Is this alteration a result of real gods acting on these people? Or is it their imagination and wishful thinking?

 

[MehGuy]

Get real.

The physical transmission of pleasure and pain
are the same impulses. So what is your problem?

masochizm. I thought suffering was beautiful as a Christian, these days I am a little less naive. There are many types of suffering that people simply can't find beauty in (deep depression). Perhaps second hand masochism, but even that tends to wash away after repeated exposure.

 

[Extraneous]

I see the difference in others when they go to a Hindu yoga retreat, or accept Allah as their god. Is this alteration a result of real gods acting on these people? Or is it their imagination and wishful thinking?

I cannot speak for them, all i can do is speak for myself and those i have had fellowship with. Is it wishful thinking that God doesnt exist? Perhaps people dont want to believe that they are accountable to God, and so they wish to be free from HIm. Just something to consider.

 

[Locutus]

I cannot speak for them, all i can do is speak for myself and those i have had fellowship with. Is it wishful thinking that God doesnt exist? Perhaps people dont want to believe that they are accountable to God, and so they wish to be free from HIm. Just something to consider.

Do you not want to believe in the Hindu gods because you fear your accountability to them? Do you 'wish to be free of them'? Is it wishful thinking (on your part) that Vishnu doesn't exist? It's no-brainer stuff, and very little in the way of considered thought is required to realise how silly this argument is.

 

[Locutus]

masochizm. I thought suffering was beautiful as a Christian, these days I am a little less naive.

I think calling it naivety is a kindness. I get the distinct impression it's a (perhaps sub or semi-conscious) choice to pay this particular price for the golden ticket.

 

[Extraneous]

Do you not want to believe in the Hindu gods because you fear your accountability to them? Do you 'wish to be free of them'? Is it wishful thinking (on your part) that Vishnu doesn't exist? It's no-brainer stuff, and very little in the way of considered thought is required to realise how silly this argument is.

I have been tempted to give up on God, and that's what the enemy does to believers. Satan tempted the Lord as well. I wouldn't go back to unbelief for anything however. God gives me hope and love. The world offers only death and pain. I believe its Atheists who are engaged in wishful thinking. They are unwilling to submit to GOd and would rather wish him away. I coulnt wish him away if i tried, because i have prayed too much, endured too much, and the Lord will not forsake me. Goodnight friend.

 

[SkyWriting]

masochizm. I thought suffering was beautiful as a Christian, these days I am a little less naive. There are many types of suffering that people simply can't find beauty in (deep depression). Perhaps second hand masochism, but even that tends to wash away after repeated exposure.

True, the "suffering is beautiful" thing doesn't fly.
Pain is nerve impulses that you think are pain.
The signals are the same as what comes from
your eyes, and you translate that into vision.

This world is not Heaven and it's a mistake to
ask it to be.

 

[bhsmte]

Those Christians dont know any better, they just lack proper understanding. In my fallible, humble opinion, they dont understand what God means by healing. Hes referring to spiritual restoration, not physical healing.

This doesn't really help.

Do you think God cures people of sickness? Yes, or no?

 

[Extraneous]

This doesn't really help.

Do you think God cures people of sickness? Yes, or no?

Not always no. We are all going to die and thats a fact of life. He will ultimately cure us from the ultimate sickness though, which is mortality.

 

[SkyWriting]

This doesn't really help.
Do you think God cures people of sickness? Yes, or no?

The only impact God has is through His Spirit.
That can do a lot though.

 

[joshua 1 9]

I always get a kick out of the explanations some Christians have on this topic.

For the most part, it is really a desperate attempt to explain this stuff away. You see Christians on this board, claiming God cured a family member of a disease and when you asked them why did God cure your family member and at the same time, allow 9 million children to die each year before the age of five, you get the same desperate and contradictory answers.

mat 23 37 "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing."

 

[bhsmte]

mat 23 37 "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing."

Doesn't explain anything.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

Most people are alive today. Pain comes with that.
Nerves keep your organs functioning.
No nerve signals means death.

Are you talking about Africa. I thought many children were dying, from poverty. And that continent have been stricken with diseases and poverty. Why would God allow this?

 

[tatteredsoul]

You dont really seem interested in God, and you seem more interested in accusing him of being mean. How do you know God is responsible for those things? Perhaps man himself is responsible. Would you rather have not been created at all? Is it too much to ask that we should be grateful to exist? God has promised something better.

Honestly, I would have rather never been created. At least I would have never been conscientious or aware. The alternative to heaven is conscious eternity away from Him - contingent upon me having enough faith in Him, aND obedience. Imagine suffering and having your faith shaken all the time - then finding out in the end you didn't make it. Yea, I get non-Christians' qualms on this one. This is one reason I will never have kids... sure they will please me but what if they don't "make it?" And, to think they didn't even ask me to exist; I made that choice for them.

 

[Locutus]

The alternative suffering and having your faith shaken all the time - then finding out in the end you didn't make it. Yea, I get non-Christians' qualms on this one. This is one reason I will never have kids... sure they will please me but what if they don't "make it?" .

I'm sorry to say you don't get 'non-Christian qualms' at all. At least not the atheist variety. What so many theists refuse to grasp is that we don't have any qualms. Or, we have as many qualms as the Christian does about not worshipping Odin, or Vishnu. Further, would you worry about any future kids not making it into Valhalla, or Hindu Heaven. Seriously peeps .. think.

 

[Locutus]

Are you talking about Africa. I thought many children were dying, from poverty. And that continent have been stricken with diseases and poverty. Why would God allow this?

Yeah, it's pretty hard to get something positive out of your suffering when you're getting progressively worse, or dead.