Why does Christ say to keep the Commandments?

Rainie · Aug 28, 2007

Tavita said:
Are you talking Two House, Rainie?

This was fulfilled by Christ on the cross..

Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who were once afar off are made near by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For He is our peace, He making us both one, and He has broken down the middle wall of partition between us,
Eph 2:15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity (the Law of commandments contained in ordinances) so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, making peace between them;
Eph 2:16 and so that He might reconcile both to God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity in Himself.
Eph 2:17 And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off, and to those who were near.
Eph 2:18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.
Eph 2:19 Now therefore you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God,

And what did the Lord always command in the Law?.. that those of any nation who loved Him and wanted to be joined to His people were more than welcome. He included them in Israel.

(Isa 14:1 MKJV) For Jehovah will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel and set them in their own land; and the stranger shall be joined with them, and they shall cling to the house of Jacob.

(Isa 56:3 MKJV) And do not let the son of the stranger, who has joined himself to Jehovah, speak, saying, Jehovah has utterly separated me from His people. And do not let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.

(Zec 2:11 MKJV) And many nations shall be joined to Jehovah in that day, and shall be My people; and I will dwell in your midst, and you shall know that Jehovah of Hosts has sent me to you.

The house of Israel and the house of Judah are ONE in THE ONE, now. It is ONLY by Jesus... who is THE Israel. And He has inaugurated a 'new and living way'.

I'm not entirely sure we disagree.
I am apart of Israel.
What I'm saying is that when believer's deny being apart of Israel then they are denying God's people.
The New Covenant belongs to Israel and Judah. (Jer.31) is anyone else listed?
*This is the ONLY place in the Old Testament that the "NEW COVENANT" is specifically outlined.

So I believe as gentile believer's we can be grafted into (Rom.11) Israel. Therefore, ALL ISRAEL will be saved.
Because ALL ISRAEL includes the stranger.

I'm apart of Israel, God's people, by adoption, by faith, by grace and by the 'grafting in.'

God Bless

Tavita · Aug 28, 2007

Rainie said:
I'm not entirely sure we disagree.
I am apart of Israel.
What I'm saying is that when believer's deny being apart of Israel then they are denying God's people.
The New Covenant belongs to Israel and Judah. (Jer.31) is anyone else listed?
*This is the ONLY place in the Old Testament that the "NEW COVENANT" is specifically outlined.

So I believe as gentile believer's we can be grafted into (Rom.11) Israel. Therefore, ALL ISRAEL will be saved.
Because ALL ISRAEL includes the stranger.

I'm apart of Israel, God's people, by adoption, by faith, by grace and by the 'grafting in.'

God Bless

Amen, Rainie, on something we agree!

ricker · Aug 28, 2007

I'm not entirely sure we disagree.
I am apart of Israel.
What I'm saying is that when believer's deny being apart of Israel then they are denying God's people.
The New Covenant belongs to Israel and Judah. (Jer.31) is anyone else listed?
*This is the ONLY place in the Old Testament that the "NEW COVENANT" is specifically outlined.

So I believe as gentile believer's we can be grafted into (Rom.11) Israel. Therefore, ALL ISRAEL will be saved.
Because ALL ISRAEL includes the stranger.

I'm apart of Israel, God's people, by adoption, by faith, by grace and by the 'grafting in.'

I will admit I'm not a Biblical scholar of any magnatude, but I don't believe Christians are required to keep the old laws and ordinances given to the Israelites at Sinai. I don't think titles or ethnicities have any meaning to us as Christians. We are all heirs according to the promise, though, if that is what you are saying.

26You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

(Notice it doesn't say all baptized believers are Jews)
God bless! Ricker

PattyOfurniture · Aug 28, 2007

ricker said:
I will admit I'm not a Biblical scholar of any magnatude, but I don't believe Christians are required to keep the old laws and ordinances given to the Israelites at Sinai. I don't think titles or ethnicities have any meaning to us as Christians. We are all heirs according to the promise, though, if that is what you are saying.

26You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

(Notice it doesn't say all baptized believers are Jews)
God bless! Ricker

Dude,we are not to keep the OT laws as far as sacrifices,circumcision,dietary laws,sabbaths,etc... especially as Gentile believers in Christ.Easiest way to know 'right from wrong' is to actually read what paul,james,peter and john(epistles)list...not forgetting this was all dealt with in Jerusalem and taken back to Antioch.why do we want to "burden ourselves with anything beyond"what was written for us?

PattyOfurniture · Aug 28, 2007

btw, i used to looooove feeling really,really Religious and keep the 7th day sabbath,dietary laws,throwing around Hebraic terms,etc in other words I've been there.

Cribstyl · Aug 28, 2007

Rainie said:
Romans 9
1I speak the truth in Christ—I am not lying, my conscience confirms it in the Holy Spirit— 2I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. 3For I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, those of my own race, 4the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption as sons; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises. 5Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised!Amen.

God Bless

Your original words were

Rainie said:
The ONLY place where the "New Covenant" is specifically addressed, in the OT, is here is Jeremiah 31. In this discription, we are clearly told that the recieptants of the "New Covenant" will be JUDAH and ISREAL.
NO ONE ELSE IS LISTED.

So if you want to take part of the "New Covenant" you'd better be apart of Israel of Judah, it's that simple.

I say again in a friendly but opposing manner, I disagree with your perspective because it contradicts too much of God's word.

When Adam sinned, God prophetically told satan that the seed of woman would bruise His head. So God's word proves that His plan of salvation for the whole world would come through Jesus Christ (the seed of woman).

God's plan was not isolated to the prophetic word quoted about the New Covenant in Jeremiah to the Children Of Israel(COI).

The promise takes shape through Abraham....
Gen 18:18Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?

Gen 22:18And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

Gen 26:4And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;

Gen 28:14And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.

it's up to you to recognized that God's prophetic plan of salvation began when man sinned with and would transfur to all the families of the earth.

CRIB

PattyOfurniture · Aug 28, 2007

Cribstyl said:
Your original words were

I say again in a friendly but opposing manner, I disagree with your perspective because it contradicts too much of God's word.

When Adam sinned, God prophetically told satan that the seed of woman would bruise His head. So God's word proves that His plan of salvation for the whole world would come through Jesus Christ (the seed of woman).

God's plan was not isolated to the prophetic word quoted about the New Covenant in Jeremiah to the Children Of Israel(COI).

The promise takes shape through Abraham....
Gen 18:18Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?

Gen 22:18And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

Gen 26:4And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;

Gen 28:14And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.

it's up to you to recognized that God's prophetic plan of salvation began when man sinned with and would transfur to all the families of the earth.

CRIB

I'm prolly the dullest knife in Granpas collection,so my take on this is.....
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

PattyOfurniture · Aug 28, 2007

now that i've read rainies stuff, i have to say that my opinion(prolly mine alone) is that the OT promises that appear to be made to ethnic 'israel' are conditional.conditional on a believing peeps,believing in the Messiah and not rejecting him.btw, Jesus said to the knuckleheads (pharisees,sadducees,scribes and thieves....lol)that ran the show at that time that their (Magic)Kingdom passes had expired(so to speak)

PattyOfurniture · Aug 28, 2007

Loveaboveall said:
Is it possible that the one commandment God said to "remember" was so widely known that there was no need to command the people to "keep" it. Apparently everywhere the apostles went they went to the synagogue on the sabbath, and if there was no synagogue they would find people who were praying (Lydia). If the apostles always found people worshipping on the sabbath then isn't it very possible that people knew what the sabbath was and how to keep it? In every letter we read from Paul we find that there are differences b/w Jews and Gentiles, meaning that there would always be Jews available to give the gentiles instruction in the "oracles of God", the law that defines sin, right? The new testament commands of what is wrong are the same as the "civil laws" of leviticus and deuteronomy. They define explicitly what the 10 commandments say in principle. The new testament "civil laws" NEVER contradict the 10 commandments which define sin, do they?

please read Romans 14:5 ...One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord.,....10 Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God; 11 for it is written,
As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me,
and every tongue shall confess to God.

12 So then each of us will give an account of himself to God.

along with what Paul carried back from Jerusalem to Antioch....Acts 15:19 Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God, 20 but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood.

amother thingy..paul many times over in his mail mentions who would not inherit the kingdom(we all know the list(s) and not even once does he mention sabbath breakers.even the good-deeder James never mentions sabbath breaking.
and anoooother lil' thingy....whenever a meeting on a sabbath is mentioned it usually paul trying to "persuade" the jews and God-fearers in some quaint out of the way rustic synagogue that Jesus was in fact the messiah that was to come.i cannot remember any actual christian sabbath gathering (on this i could be wrong)

and yes Ro. 14:5 "contradicts the 10 commandments" as you put it

Tavita · Aug 29, 2007

PattyOfurniture said:
now that i've read rainies stuff, i have to say that my opinion(prolly mine alone) is that the OT promises that appear to be made to ethnic 'israel' are conditional.conditional on a believing peeps,believing in the Messiah and not rejecting him.btw, Jesus said to the knuckleheads (pharisees,sadducees,scribes and thieves....lol)that ran the show at that time that their (Magic)Kingdom passes had expired(so to speak)

Not your opinion alone..

Love your writing style..

Rainie · Aug 29, 2007

Tavita said:
Amen, Rainie, on something we agree!

Whew! That was a close one. I'm very pleased we agree!
Iron sharpens Iron!

Rainie · Aug 29, 2007

ricker said:
I will admit I'm not a Biblical scholar of any magnatude, but I don't believe Christians are required to keep the old laws and ordinances given to the Israelites at Sinai. I don't think titles or ethnicities have any meaning to us as Christians. We are all heirs according to the promise, though, if that is what you are saying.

26You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

(Notice it doesn't say all baptized believers are Jews)
God bless! Ricker

Christians aren't required to keep the Law. I agree.
I'm not telling anyone that they are "required" to keep the Law.
If someone chooses to keep the Law it should come from the heart, out of our freewill. Not because we are "required to."
So I think in this we pretty much agree.
I'm not saying all believers are Jews, I believe all believers are apart of Israel. (Romans 11).

Cribstyl · Aug 29, 2007

PattyOfurniture said:
I'm prolly the dullest knife in Granpas collection,so my take on this is.....
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Yes.......that text and many other in the New Testament confirms every prophesy that Jesus had to fulfill or God's word would be in errors. (I THINK NOT)

Those who say that the promise was to only the COI and no other, fail to realize that God promise to Israel could also include outsiders, if most of Israel rejects to come to the marriage, as Jesus declared in the parable.

CRIB

Rainie · Aug 29, 2007

PattyOfurniture said:
Dude,we are not to keep the OT laws as far as sacrifices,circumcision,dietary laws,sabbaths,etc... especially as Gentile believers in Christ.Easiest way to know 'right from wrong' is to actually read what paul,james,peter and john(epistles)list...not forgetting this was all dealt with in Jerusalem and taken back to Antioch.why do we want to "burden ourselves with anything beyond"what was written for us?

If anyone views the Law as a burden, they should not keep it, plain and simple! It will serve this person no purpose and will lead them to doom! This is what Paul teaches.
Law keeping is not for Salvation or Justification, which leads to burden.
Law keeping is for Sanctification (Holiness/Set-Apart).

People/Judiazers, what ever you want to call them, were telling the Gentiles that they HAD to be circumsized and that they HAD to keep all the Law for Salvation etc.
Paul teaches that this is a bold faced LIE and if anyone keeps the Law for justification they are doomed!!!!
The Law can't save, FAITH saves.

This does not however mean that the Law has no place or purpose in a believer's life it just means that the Law is NOT a means of acquiring Salvation, it is a response to Salvation!!!!
AND it never has been, no Old Testament believer was saved by their perfect obedience to the Law because that is impossible (out of the flesh). The Old Testament believer's are saved by GRACE/FAITH.

Rainie · Aug 29, 2007

PattyOfurniture said:
btw, i used to looooove feeling really,really Religious and keep the 7th day sabbath,dietary laws,throwing around Hebraic terms,etc in other words I've been there.

I've been where you are now.
AND it served me no benefit to disregard the Law.

Rainie · Aug 29, 2007

Cribstyl said:
Your original words were

I say again in a friendly but opposing manner, I disagree with your perspective because it contradicts too much of God's word.

When Adam sinned, God prophetically told satan that the seed of woman would bruise His head. So God's word proves that His plan of salvation for the whole world would come through Jesus Christ (the seed of woman).

God's plan was not isolated to the prophetic word quoted about the New Covenant in Jeremiah to the Children Of Israel(COI).

The promise takes shape through Abraham....
Gen 18:18Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?

Gen 22:18And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

Gen 26:4And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;

Gen 28:14And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.

it's up to you to recognized that God's prophetic plan of salvation began when man sinned with and would transfur to all the families of the earth.

CRIB

We will have to agree to disagree here.

Rainie · Aug 29, 2007

PattyOfurniture said:
I'm prolly the dullest knife in Granpas collection,so my take on this is.....
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Whoever believes in Him will have eternal life. That is not what I'm trying to say. I'm simply saying that when you believe you become apart of God's people and God's people is Israel and Judah.
Romans 11, explains how the Gentiles get "grafted into" Israel.
Please don't get me wrong, anyone who truly believes is saved.

Rainie · Aug 29, 2007

PattyOfurniture said:
now that i've read rainies stuff, i have to say that my opinion(prolly mine alone) is that the OT promises that appear to be made to ethnic 'israel' are conditional.conditional on a believing peeps,believing in the Messiah and not rejecting him.btw, Jesus said to the knuckleheads (pharisees,sadducees,scribes and thieves....lol)that ran the show at that time that their (Magic)Kingdom passes had expired(so to speak)

I'm a little confused by this post can you expand this thought and maybe use some scripture, to support it?

Cribstyl · Aug 29, 2007

Rainie said:
Romans 9
1I speak the truth in ChristI am not lying, my conscience confirms it in the Holy Spirit 2I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. 3For I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, those of my own race, 4the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption as sons; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises. 5Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised!Amen.

God Bless

Friend, It's no mystery that God firstly and prophetically promised the Children of Israel (COI) the new covenant. But to conclude that only the COI will be given the New Covenant is not true. Yes they were promised it, and that why it's written "He came unto His own and they recieved Him not."
Jhn 1:10He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

Jhn 1:11He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

Jhn 1:12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:

Jhn 1:13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Jhn 1:14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Paul's sorrow and anguish is because the COI had betrayed "the seed," Jesus, and killed His followers. They had rejected the Christ. Paul's life before the Damascus road appearance of Jesus proves that Jews have a zeal to serve God but not according to knowlege.
It is written' "the just shall live by faith" and not by blood or the will of man.

We will have to agree to disagree here.

Your arguments does change the written truth that you ignore. The word of God is the bottom line.

CRIB

Tavita · Aug 29, 2007

Rainie said:
Whoever believes in Him will have eternal life. That is not what I'm trying to say. I'm simply saying that when you believe you become apart of God's people and God's people is Israel and Judah.
Romans 11, explains how the Gentiles get "grafted into" Israel.
Please don't get me wrong, anyone who truly believes is saved.

Rainie, I hope in our agreement you don't think that it comes down to race. Christ is the seed whose name is also 'Israel'. When you believe you are grafted into Him whose name is Israel. He is the root of the olive tree.

Yes, many of the direct descendants of the lost tribes and even many Jews are 'in' the church, among the Gentiles... because the lost tribes had become like the Gentiles.

Joh 7:35 Then the Jews said among themselves, Where is he about to go that we shall not find him? Is he about to go to the Dispersion of the Greeks, and to teach the Greeks?

Many scholars point out there has only ever been one Dispersion, and that was of the lost tribes of Israel. They had become so much like the Gentiles they were only recognized as Greeks. There has never been a Dispersion of the Greeks.

Jesus purchased the 'field', which is the world, so He could have the treasure in the field, Israel. But He still purchased the whole of mankind. And if you are in Christ then you ARE grafted into Israel (Christ). It has nothing to do with race anymore. Because He has purchased the whole world, He also pulls in those who are NOT physically descended from Israel.

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that outwardly in flesh;
Rom 2:29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is of the heart; in spirit and not in letter; whose praise is not from men, but from God.

Why does Christ say to keep the Commandments?

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