Why do you think its wrong

[invisible trousers]

LEWD'NESS, n.

1. The unlawful indulgence of lust; fornication, or adultery.2. In Scripture, it generally denotes idolatry.3. Licentiousness; shamelessness.


INCON'TINENCY, n. [L. incontinentia. See Continence.]

1. Want of restraint of the passions or appetites; free or uncontrolled indulgence of the passions or appetites, as of anger.2. Want of restraint of the sexual appetite; free or illegal indulgence of lust; lewdness; used of either sex, but appropriately of the male sex. Incontinence in men is the same as unchastity in women.

how exactly does this help your argument?

either way, you and others still haven't shown how masturbation is part of fornication. every single definition and use of fornication has not included masturbation. i really think you anti-masturbators are grasping at straws here.

 

[JunkYardDog]

how exactly does this help your argument?

either way, you and others still haven't shown how masturbation is part of fornication. every single definition and use of fornication has not included masturbation. i really think you anti-masturbators are grasping at straws here.

I guess that leaves you masturbators grasping . . . er . . . something else.

 

[bliz]

I guess that leaves you masturbators grasping . . . er . . . something else.

Thos of us who do not think that mastrubation is a sin do not necessarily mastrubate. I don't think that smoking is a sin, but I don't smoke. Come to think of it... it is the anti-mastrubation folks who spend the most time talking about struggling and lewdness and praying against temptation. I wonder which camp spends more time thinking about mastrubation and genetalia.... I have always said, no one thinks about sex as often as a fundamentalist preacher does.

 

[JunkYardDog]

Thos of us who do not think that mastrubation is a sin do not necessarily mastrubate. I don't think that smoking is a sin, but I don't smoke. Come to think of it... it is the anti-mastrubation folks who spend the most time talking about struggling and lewdness and praying against temptation. I wonder which camp spends more time thinking about mastrubation and genetalia.... I have always said, no one thinks about sex as often as a fundamentalist preacher does.

In your dreams

 

[bliz]

In your dreams

Generally the phrase "in your dreams" means "You wish!" as in "Yeah, you wish that were true!" Therefore, your coment means that I would like it if fundamentalist preachers thought a lot about sex.

Actually, I wish they would think a whole lot less about it. Then maybe they would focus on the important things, like preaching the Gospel, which they generally do very well, and stop acting like the sex police, finding possible sexual sin everywhere and in everything and making a lot of people feel nedlessly guilty. There are enough things in life that we really should feel guilty about and seek repentence for... we don't need to add extra-Biblical layers of additional guilt.

 

[Shizzle]

the bible says ignorance is willfull, im willing to bet that thats on a spiritual level
it was in the context of christianity so that may not apply to everything

 

[JunkYardDog]

Generally the phrase "in your dreams" means "You wish!" as in "Yeah, you wish that were true!" Therefore, your coment means that I would like it if fundamentalist preachers thought a lot about sex.

No.

Actually, I wish they would think a whole lot less about it. Then maybe they would focus on the important things, like preaching the Gospel, which they generally do very well, and stop acting like the sex police, finding possible sexual sin everywhere and in everything and making a lot of people feel nedlessly guilty. There are enough things in life that we really should feel guilty about and seek repentence for... we don't need to add extra-Biblical layers of additional guilt.

You cannot preach the Gospel without confronting sin. The more high-profile and common the sin, the more it will be addressed. It isn't the fundamentalists who plaster naked people all over television, billboards, newspapers, and everywhere else. Nor is it they who conduct marches to celebrate abominations like homosexuality.

If you are looking for those most obsessed with sex, try the advertising industry, Hollywood, and the average American. Do you think tose sex-saturrated shows about "stars" and the morning talk shows where nearly every topic involves sex are there because people are NOT thinking about it, or because they want to hear MORE?

I challenge you to tape 10 random sermons off TV and 10 random episodes of TV sit-coms and then see who is doing all the talking about sex. Of course you won't do it because you will be too fascinated with your own alleged intellect to do so.

 

[statrei]

No.



You cannot preach the Gospel without confronting sin. The more high-profile and common the sin, the more it will be addressed. It isn't the fundamentalists who plaster naked people all over television, billboards, newspapers, and everywhere else. Nor is it they who conduct marches to celebrate abominations like homosexuality.

If you are looking for those most obsessed with sex, try the advertising industry, Hollywood, and the average American. Do you think tose sex-saturrated shows about "stars" and the morning talk shows where nearly every topic involves sex are there because people are NOT thinking about it, or because they want to hear MORE?

I challenge you to tape 10 random sermons off TV and 10 random episodes of TV sit-coms and then see who is doing all the talking about sex. Of course you won't do it because you will be too fascinated with your own alleged intellect to do so.

If you insist on living among thieves you cannot then complain that they indulge in thievery. The church has given up on its mission to hasten the Second Coming. By refusing to do so they have ensured that this sinful life will continue. Instead of trying to fix the world by their own efforts, obviously driven by a sense of their own self-importance, why not do what they should do so that the kingdom of evil can be banished from the face of the earth?

 

[BarbB]

If you insist on living among thieves you cannot then complain that they indulge in thievery. The church has given up on its mission to hasten the Second Coming. By refusing to do so they have ensured that this sinful life will continue. Instead of trying to fix the world by their own efforts, obviously driven by a sense of their own self-importance, why not do what they should do so that the kingdom of evil can be banished from the face of the earth?

What do you believe we should do to hasten the Second Coming?

Thanks for responding with something different, at least!

 

[invisible trousers]

Come to think of it... it is the anti-mastrubation folks who spend the most time talking about struggling and lewdness and praying against temptation. I wonder which camp spends more time thinking about mastrubation and genetalia.... I have always said, no one thinks about sex as often as a fundamentalist preacher does.

bingo. it's like the people who try to deny their sex drives are the most obsessed and have the most extreme views on sexuality, while the rest of us seem to get along relatively alright.

Then maybe they would focus on the important things, like preaching the Gospel, which they generally do very well, and stop acting like the sex police, finding possible sexual sin everywhere and in everything and making a lot of people feel nedlessly guilty. There are enough things in life that we really should feel guilty about and seek repentence for... we don't need to add extra-Biblical layers of additional guilt.

guilt is a very powerful tool.

I challenge you to tape 10 random sermons off TV and 10 random episodes of TV sit-coms and then see who is doing all the talking about sex. Of course you won't do it because you will be too fascinated with your own alleged intellect to do so.

wow that was a clever insult. i think it would make more sense to listen to the 10 most vocal christian organizations; that would really show who is most obsessive about sex.

 

[statrei]

What do you believe we should do to hasten the Second Coming?

Thanks for responding with something different, at least!

That last remark leaves the impression that you are not impressed with the idea that the church is responsible for the timing of the Second Coming. Instead of taking you directly to the texts of Scripture that clearly show this, I would ask you to think it throught. The conditions of the world is affected by four entities. The Creator, the devil, the followers of the Creator and the followers of the devil. You may wish to make more fine distinctions but I am comfortable with these. We also agree that at the Second Coming everything that Christians find to be morally objectionable will be eradicated. I think we can agree that the devil has no desire for the Second Coming to occur since it signifies the end of the line for him. The same could be said, by extension, of his followers. This leaves the Creator and His followers. Who could be responsible? If He had the ability to bring an end to the suffering that innocent humans are enduring in this life He would be awfully cruel not to have done it, because there is no positive value to this suffering. If you are able to argue that the suffering improves one's chances of getting into the kingdom you are free to make the attempt. I will listen, but I have considered this long and hard. If I could alleviate a condition I would do it as soon as I can. The Creator is much more empathetic than I could ever be. This leaves the followers of the Creator as the culprits.

 

[dcrowther3]

Any religious movement (eg tribes of Israel wandering through the desert) wants to increase its numbers so as survive as a social group and also to increase its influence.
So, sexual activity must be focussed solely on reproduction and supportive family life.

 

[BarbB]

Thanks, statrei, for your response.

I can't argue as to the positive aspects of suffering, as I don't see many either. I know that the Bible states that it helps to grow us in our walk, but it doesn't feel very good when it's happening. And that's just about our individual suffering, not world suffering.

I personally believe that we are about at the end of the Church Age. A biblical week. and that the timetable was set by God before he created the world. That's why I seem so obsessed with Christians and their walk. I don't want anyone to miss the boat because they didn't understand that they were to be apart from ordinary evil.

Even so, come quickly Lord Jesus.

 

[statrei]

Thanks, statrei, for your response.

I can't argue as to the positive aspects of suffering, as I don't see many either. I know that the Bible states that it helps to grow us in our walk, but it doesn't feel very good when it's happening. And that's just about our individual suffering, not world suffering.

I personally believe that we are about at the end of the Church Age. A biblical week. and that the timetable was set by God before he created the world. That's why I seem so obsessed with Christians and their walk. I don't want anyone to miss the boat because they didn't understand that they were to be apart from ordinary evil.

Even so, come quickly Lord Jesus.

Personal beliefs are great but not if they ignore the facts. Every generation has always been confident that they were near the end and was proved wrong. The problem is that we think that we are like commuters awaitiing the arrival of a train not knowing that we hold the switch that sends the train on its way.

 

[JunkYardDog]

That last remark leaves the impression that you are not impressed with the idea that the church is responsible for the timing of the Second Coming. Instead of taking you directly to the texts of Scripture that clearly show this, I would ask you to think it throught. The conditions of the world is affected by four entities. The Creator, the devil, the followers of the Creator and the followers of the devil. You may wish to make more fine distinctions but I am comfortable with these. We also agree that at the Second Coming everything that Christians find to be morally objectionable will be eradicated. I think we can agree that the devil has no desire for the Second Coming to occur since it signifies the end of the line for him. The same could be said, by extension, of his followers. This leaves the Creator and His followers. Who could be responsible? If He had the ability to bring an end to the suffering that innocent humans are enduring in this life He would be awfully cruel not to have done it, because there is no positive value to this suffering. If you are able to argue that the suffering improves one's chances of getting into the kingdom you are free to make the attempt. I will listen, but I have considered this long and hard. If I could alleviate a condition I would do it as soon as I can. The Creator is much more empathetic than I could ever be. This leaves the followers of the Creator as the culprits.

I don't want to get you wrong here, so let me ask: Are you saying that the coming of the Lord is hastened by God's people alleviating human suffering?

 

[statrei]

I don't want to get you wrong here, so let me ask: Are you saying that the coming of the Lord is hastened by God's people alleviating human suffering?

No. I am saying that God's people have not attempted to determine what their role is in hastening the Second Coming and that the presence of suffering is an indication that the Second Coming has not yet occurred.

 

[LukeBritt]

Thanks, statrei, for your response.

I can't argue as to the positive aspects of suffering, as I don't see many either. I know that the Bible states that it helps to grow us in our walk, but it doesn't feel very good when it's happening. And that's just about our individual suffering, not world suffering.

I personally believe that we are about at the end of the Church Age. A biblical week. and that the timetable was set by God before he created the world. That's why I seem so obsessed with Christians and their walk. I don't want anyone to miss the boat because they didn't understand that they were to be apart from ordinary evil.

Even so, come quickly Lord Jesus.

Dispensationalist! But, seriously. Suffering is making up for what is lacking in Christ's afflictions (Colossians 1:24 - I now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up in my flesh what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ, for the sake of His body, which is the church.)
Secondly, anyone who is saved is justified by faith apart from the works he does. (Romans 3:28) Holiness is the fruit of our justification, not the morals that we choose to obey. Ironically, these morals sometimes come from an external set of rules, which reminds me of a group in the Bible that starts with a 'P' and ends in a 'harisees'. Legalism kills more than alcohol.

 

[JunkYardDog]

No. I am saying that God's people have not attempted to determine what their role is in hastening the Second Coming and that the presence of suffering is an indication that the Second Coming has not yet occurred.

Okay, now I see what you are saying.

Do you have something on what this "role" is?

 

[statrei]

Okay, now I see what you are saying.

Do you have something on what this "role" is?

Briefly, consider Hosea 4:6 - "My people are destroyed for lack of Knowledge." Then John 17:1-5, "This is life eternal that they might know the, the only true God." For starters we have blurred the distinction between information and knowledge. The Christian community is filled with people who have a lot of information about God but no knowledge of Him. As a result, much of their information is false, and it is impossible to swear allegiance someone you do not know, though you can obey someone you do not know. The most obvious demonstration of this can be seen in the belief among Christians that on the question of what the Creator has made, modern men have superior understanding than do men of old, but on the question of the Creator Himself, it is impossible for modern men to have superior understanding than men of old have. It is a ridiculous belief but widely held among Christians.

 

[Shizzle]

why did God create fossile fuels?

without them the world could not support this big of a population, God wanted more people, so more people would accept him, to say we can hasten the second coming is fallacy. God knows when the second coming is, we should try to bring people to God whether or not their actually is a second coming. im not sure what relevancy this has to anything besides the fact that masturbation, hentai, and alchohol is not being discussed anymore.