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Why do you think its wrong
- Thread starter Shizzle
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but why does sexuality have an inherently bad connotation?
"if the thoughts your thinking are selfish, dont think them, if the thoughts your thinking are unselfish, or have good virtue, then think them."
but why does a thought being sexually based make it selfish, ect. you could be thinking bad thoughts about jesus, and also honest, just, pure, or lovely thoughts sexually based, he says to think on these things
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BarbB
I stand with my brothers and sisters in Israel!
Shizzle said:
Shizzle, I'm not sure I can explain my thinking, since you so obviously think 180 degrees different. My thinking is that whatever diverts my thoughts from those which God would have me think is wrong, if not sinful. God has defined his gift to us of sex as a relationship between a man and his wife, not a man and himself, a man and another man, a man and a child, a man and his dog. Sex is the most intimate physical activity a person can engage in - the Bible says that by sex two become one. Unfortunately most of us have become "one" with many more than one person. I think all sorts of sexual activity can be included in this. Certainly it qualifies as activity which defines a person as totally self-involved and not God-centered.
And to say that touching yourself cannot be given up is totally incorrect. I am a widow who had a wonderful sex life, and before I was even saved I knew not to do it, though my sex drive was huge. In addition, God has gifted me with the ability to stop dreams which seem to be headed for a sexual direction - I just say that I am a born-again Christian now and I don't want to pollute my body or my mind - they belong to God and I will care for them for his sake!
That's all - I've had my say and I just pray that the younger posters who seem to believe that it's only natural will understand that natural is only good to the secular humanists. The Bible says that the natural man has no understanding of the things of the spirit and is damned without that understanding.
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If one decides or has been convinced that something is wrong it is very easy to take select passages in the Bible and interpret them as speaking to that subject. This is what has been done with the topic of masturbation. One may say that if one masturbates while thinking of another human being (not spouse) then that person has lusted in his heart. I don't know how valid that argument is but one may make it. But, if is possible for one to touch purely for self-gratification. There is no lust there. So, is the problem self-gratification. Then what of other means of self-gratification? I am amazed that Christians can ignore the things the master spoke plainly about, like the church being one, yet find a way to make an issue on matters on which the Bible is silent.
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artybloke
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porcupine said:
(Chapter 5:1-9, New American Standard)
Of course, it's all very euphemistic... but this is an unmarried woman, either dreaming of or actually having sex with her lover. "Hand" in verse 4, by the way, is very euphemistic... and actually quite appallingly rude (and in the Bible too! Shock horror probe!)
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newlamb said:
Then clearly you should not mastrubate. No one is encouraging you to do so. It is wrong for you. That does not mean that it is wrong for every Christian.
Paul wrote beautifully on the controversial subject of eating meat that had previously been offered to idols:
Romans 14
"Welcome with open arms fellow believers who don't see things the way you do. And don't jump all over them every time they do or say something you don't agree with--even when it seems that they are strong on opinions but weak in the faith department. Remember, they have their own history to deal with. Treat them gently.
2For instance, a person who has been around for a while might well be convinced that he can eat anything on the table, while another, with a different background, might assume all Christians should be vegetarians and eat accordingly. 3But since both are guests at Christ's table, wouldn't it be terribly rude if they fell to criticizing what the other ate or didn't eat? God, after all, invited them both to the table. 4Do you have any business crossing people off the guest list or interfering with God's welcome? If there are corrections to be made or manners to be learned, God can handle that without your help.
5Or, say, one person thinks that some days should be set aside as holy and another thinks that each day is pretty much like any other. There are good reasons either way. So, each person is free to follow the convictions of conscience.
6What's important in all this is that if you keep a holy day, keep it for God's sake; if you eat meat, eat it to the glory of God and thank God for prime rib; if you're a vegetarian, eat vegetables to the glory of God and thank God for broccoli. 7None of us are permitted to insist on our own way in these matters. 8It's God we are answerable to--all the way from life to death and everything in between--not each other. 9That's why Jesus lived and died and then lived again: so that he could be our Master across the entire range of life and death, and free us from the petty tyrannies of each other.
10So where does that leave you when you criticize a brother? And where does that leave you when you condescend to a sister? I'd say it leaves you looking pretty silly--or worse. Eventually, we're all going to end up kneeling side by side in the place of judgment, facing God. Your critical and condescending ways aren't going to improve your position there one bit. 11Read it for yourself in Scripture:
"As I live and breathe," God says,
"every knee will bow before me;
Every tongue will tell the honest truth
that I and only I am God."
12So tend to your knitting. You've got your hands full just taking care of your own life before God.
13Forget about deciding what's right for each other. Here's what you need to be concerned about : that you don't get in the way of someone else, making life more difficult than it already is. 14I'm convinced--Jesus convinced me!-that everything as it is in itself is holy. We, of course, by the way we treat it or talk about it, can contaminate it.
15If you confuse others by making a big issue over what they eat or don't eat, you're no longer a companion with them in love, are you? These, remember, are persons for whom Christ died. Would you risk sending them to hell over an item in their diet? 16Don't you dare let a piece of God-blessed food become an occasion of soul-poisoning!
17God's kingdom isn't a matter of what you put in your stomach, for goodness' sake. It's what God does with your life as he sets it right, puts it together, and completes it with joy. 18Your task is to single-mindedly serve Christ. Do that and you'll kill two birds with one stone: pleasing the God above you and proving your worth to the people around you.
19So let's agree to use all our energy in getting along with each other. Help others with encouraging words; 20don't drag them down by finding fault. You're certainly not going to permit an argument over what is served or not served at supper to wreck God's work among you, are you? I said it before and I'll say it again: All food is good, but it can turn bad if you use it badly, if you use it to trip others up and send them sprawling. 21When you sit down to a meal, your primary concern should not be to feed your own face but to share the life of Jesus. So be sensitive and courteous to the others who are eating. Don't eat or say or do things that might interfere with the free exchange of love.
22Cultivate your own relationship with God, but don't impose it on others. You're fortunate if your behavior and your belief are coherent. 23But if you're not sure, if you notice that you are acting in ways inconsistent with what you believe--some days trying to impose your opinions on others, other days just trying to please them--then you know that you're out of line. If the way you live isn't consistent with what you believe, then it's wrong."
Paul makes it very clear that the same activity can be sinful for some and not sinful for others. We do not all need to agree or conform on each and every action. On some areas of faith, yes! Jesus is the one and only way to have fellowship with God, that we all need to agree upon, and other matters. But not if we eat meat or not, or mastrubate or not, or worship on Sunday or Saturday, or homeschool or public school our kids or trick-or -treat or go to a Harvest celebration.
I have no problem with people saying that they believe they should not mastrubate and why. When I am asked to give "sex talks" to young people in my community, I always present both views on the subject. I will not, however, remain silent and only have the sin argument presented because I have talked to way too many struggling (usually) young people who are under such terrible guilt because they have never heard the other argument or never looked carefully at Romans 14.
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BarbB
I stand with my brothers and sisters in Israel!
Thanks for responding, bliz!
In response, I'll just say that until I was a born-again Christian I had no idea that God was interested in my day-to-day struggles and would help me to overcome if I would only ask. I asked and received the power to dismiss the urge and would suggest that others could do the same if they would only ask. Of course, if you don't want to ask, then don't.
Not to say what a huge increase in self-esteem results from success.
bliz said:
In response, I'll just say that until I was a born-again Christian I had no idea that God was interested in my day-to-day struggles and would help me to overcome if I would only ask. I asked and received the power to dismiss the urge and would suggest that others could do the same if they would only ask. Of course, if you don't want to ask, then don't.
Not to say what a huge increase in self-esteem results from success.
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i just dont think masturbation is equal to sex in any respect,
the one reason i think masturbation isnt wrong-
Why didnt God say it was wrong in the bible?
he said sex with animals is wrong, so why not masturbation?
sex with animals is more obviously wrong then masturbation..
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artybloke said:
Ypou can read it that way if your mind is filthy. I have seen porno freaks who see sex in everything. Pedophiles interpret actions of children as "come-ons." What sexuality is indicated here is between the woman and her husband -- she is anticipating it.
You remind me of the people who want to see the love David had for Jonathan as homosexuality.
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artybloke
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You should read the whole book without Victorian goggles on. There is no suggestion of the couple being married; in fact the relationship seems to be frowned on by everyone else. There is a tradition that it was about an affair between Solomon and the Queen of Sheba; and another that it is about the relationship between Solomon and one of his 200 concubines. But concubines were not wives, and Solomon was never married to the Queen of Sheba. This has more in common with courtly love poetry of the middle ages than it does with a celebration of marital love.
And sex isn't dirty. Unless you do it in a barrel of mud...
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artybloke said:
Like I said, she is anticipating sex WITH HER HUSBAND. It doesn't mean they are married yet. However, anticipating the wedding night is NOT masturbation. Her imaginations of sex are pure since they are directed toward her husband. (Remember, that she would be legally his wife long before the actual wedding. The covenant was official at betrothal.)
You need to pay less attention to fables and traditions and look at the WORDS -- like HUSBAND!
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BarbB
I stand with my brothers and sisters in Israel!
From the NIV:
In Deuteronomy, God has instructed that nocturnal emissions are to be treated as unclean and the man who had one is unclean until evening. The very next paragraph speaks of setting up latrines. I'm thinking that touching yourself would fit right in here, except it is an action that is willfully done and in OT times would render a man unclean.
In Deuteronomy, God has instructed that nocturnal emissions are to be treated as unclean and the man who had one is unclean until evening. The very next paragraph speaks of setting up latrines. I'm thinking that touching yourself would fit right in here, except it is an action that is willfully done and in OT times would render a man unclean.
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