Why do you think its wrong

[Shizzle]

We often think that if something isn't specifically listed as sinful in the Bible, it's okay.

If the bible even feigntly infers it to be sinful, but the Bible is Gods holy complete word and message to us, if its not in there and the bible is complete, then we can think that if its not said or inferred to be sinful, that it isnt sinful.

Does masturbation glorify God?

yes, its a monument to his gifts to us

Does it serve as a witness to the gospel?

does eating? does using the toilet? does watching TV? does having a pet?

When you touch, do you expect people to see the image of Christ in you?

i hope they dont see me at all, .. i dont think their watching me.. i hope their not watching me..

If you answer 'no', then you probably shouldn't be doing it. We're to offer our bodies to the Lord as a living sacrifice, it doesn't make much sense to touch.

What does that have to do with masturbation? does that mean that we are to refrain from marital sex if we dont intend on having a child? Masturbation reduces stress and scientifically has no affect on our sex drive, dont you think God put this in here as kindof a stop-gap?

 

[Paleoconservatarian]

If the bible even feigntly infers it to be sinful, but the Bible is Gods holy complete word and message to us, if its not in there and the bible is complete, then we can think that if its not said or inferred to be sinful, that it isnt sinful.

How do you know this? Scriptural support, please. I'll tell you one thing, and that is that the Bible doesn't tell us everything we're not supposed to do, but does tell us what we are supposed to do. I also noticed that you conveniently passed over this part of my post: But even to ask whether something's okay or if it's in the Bible, we should ask ourselves whether we ought to be asking such questions in the first place. Instead of asking God, "What will you allow me to do?" we should ask Him, "What do you command me to do?" The first question is self-centered, the second is God-centered.

Another thing is that I have a problem with one of your presuppositions. You suppose that the Bible is the complete Word of God. What makes you think that? The Bible is all we need to do what God set us here to do (with the Spirit's help). Furthermore you seem to conclude that masturbation cannot even be inferred to be sinful, given Scriptural revelation. How do you know this? Do you think perhaps that you're missing some important lesson from Scripture? (Or have you learned them all? I'm not being facetious).

yes, its a monument to his gifts to us

Same thing's been said of pornography, but you haven't given me any reason to believe that. Scripture, please.

does eating? does using the toilet?

Eating and waste disposal are natural processes which are essential to maintaining the life of the body. Your argument doesn't apply.

does watching TV?

Usually, no. In fact, I think Christians would be better off without TV.

does having a pet?

It can. Remember our stewardship over the earth. It can teach both children and adults valuable lessons about responsibility, life, and stewardship. But if it's specifically for our pleasure and we're not honoring God in caring for our pet, then we shouldn't have pets.

What does that have to do with masturbation?

It has to do with every aspect of our lives.

does that mean that we are to refrain from marital sex if we dont intend on having a child?

A married couple honors God through marital sex by honoring the physical oneness God has created. Paul suggests that a married couple should come together as often as need be (1 Cor. 7, I think).

Masturbation reduces stress and scientifically has no affect on our sex drive, dont you think God put this in here as kindof a stop-gap?

I find it interesting that you felt a need to mention that "scientifically [it] has no affect [sic] on our sex drive." Hardly sound Biblical reasoning. Once again, I must ask who you're seeking to please. Almighty God? Or Almighty Self? God didn't create your body to serve you, He created your body to serve Him. God gave you your sexual facilities. He told you how to use it. Why not do it His way?

 

[Shizzle]

How do you know this? Scriptural support, please. I'll tell you one thing, and that is that the Bible doesn't tell us everything we're not supposed to do, but does tell us what we are supposed to do.

what scriptural support do you have for the bible telling us everything we are supposed to do? Why would God not mention it at all? Why wouldnt God mention it?

deuteronomy 5:32Ye shall observe to do therefore as the LORD your God hath commanded you: ye shall not turn aside to the right hand or to the left.

I also noticed that you conveniently passed over this part of my post: But even to ask whether something's okay or if it's in the Bible, we should ask ourselves whether we ought to be asking such questions in the first place. Instead of asking God, "What will you allow me to do?" we should ask Him, "What do you command me to do?" The first question is self-centered, the second is God-centered.

The thing is, since he didnt say it was wrong, does it matter that he doesnt excactly command me to? We need to take care of our bodies so that we may minister to others, It doesnt get in the way of my ministry. Yet it does relieve sexual stress, allowing me to focus better.

Furthermore you seem to conclude that masturbation cannot even be inferred to be sinful, given Scriptural revelation. How do you know this? Do you think perhaps that you're missing some important lesson from Scripture? (Or have you learned them all? I'm not being facetious).

alot of people have replied and given verses which they thought inferred masturbation to be sinful, yet none of the verses did, thats one of the reasons i posted..

yes, its a monument to his gifts to us

Same thing's been said of pornography, but you haven't given me any reason to believe that. Scripture, please.

ok, maybe its not a monument to his gifts for us, lets go back to the original thing:

Does masturbation glorify God?

no, but it reduces the risk of prostate cancer therefore giving us better health and more time to spread his word.

does eating? does using the toilet?

Eating and waste disposal are natural processes which are essential to maintaining the life of the body. Your argument doesn't apply.

Masturbation is also a natural process which helps maintain the life of your body also, it reduces the risk of prostate cancer, and releases sexual stress.
findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1608/is_11_19/ai_110809210

I find it interesting that you felt a need to mention that "scientifically [it] has no affect [sic] on our sex drive." Hardly sound Biblical reasoning.

Its biblical that we need to take care of our bodies,its scientific that it has no affect on our sex drive and reduces the risk of prostate cancer.

Once again, I must ask who you're seeking to please. Almighty God? Or Almighty Self? God didn't create your body to serve you, He created your body to serve Him. God gave you your sexual facilities. He told you how to use it. Why not do it His way?

He created my body to serve him and to serve him i must care for the body, prostate cancer.
Im not legally old enough to get married

Why wouldnt God say Masturbation was sinful in the Bible, Why... Maybe because its not.. If it wasnt sinful, do you expect him to say "But worry not, it is okay to spill your seed if you are not married" or something like that randomly?

 

[Shizzle]

bump....

anyone have a reason why any of these things are wrong anymore, ive refuted all thus far

 

[ASLER86]

bump....

anyone have a reason why any of these things are wrong anymore, ive refuted all thus far

They've posted verses and reasons but you have ignored them all. Sorry to be blunt, but its true.

When reading the Bible you have to take in in cultural context of what it meant in that time period, and then you have to look at it in our culture. Its called exegesis/hermeneutics.

You also say that you are not old enough to get married, maybe that is why you do not understand some of what they are trying to tell you.

For some strange reason reading the points of view on these throughout this thread has made me extremely sick/sad in my heart.

Hold on and I will get to your individual points....

 

[ASLER86]

Id like to know the reason that people think Masturbation, Sexual fantasies, Animated porn, or alchohol consumption is sinful. Use biblical support plz, King James Version(its least simplified).

1. Lust
Lust in the bible means wants as seen in Deuteronomy 14:26

And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,

The modern meaning of Lust is Sexual fantasies

I'm not going to go into masturbation....that is between you and God and it has been debated...

If you look at the word lust in the original languages, you only took it in that one verse and used it to build your case. If you look at it in the context of sexual immorality...

For example, Galatians 5:16 "This I say then, walk in the Spirit and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh"

Lust, as used in Greek, "ejpiqumiva" which means a desire, craving, a desire for what is forbidden"

2. Immorality
If a verse says something about immorality being wrong, yet the bible does not define any of these actions as being immoral anywhere inside it, then that verse is not relevant to any of these actions, so dont post it.

3. Matthew 5:28

But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Causes:
A. Looketh upon a woman
B. To lust after her
Effects:
A. Adultery in your heart (thus sin)

in sexual fantasies, cause A is not fulfilled.
in animated porn, cause A is not fulfilled.
This verse was very specific about how adultery could be commited in your heart, it is not saying that adultery can be commited in your heart as it can in reality.

Like I mentioned before, cultural context...they didn't have animated porn back then.

Did you read the first paragraph of post number 2?

The did however have temple prostitutes (both male and female), street prostitutes, etc.

The also didn't have videos and pictures for porn...it was all a live show.

How is lusting after a woman not fulfilled in animated porn? If it looks like a woman it can cause other difficulties, such as in how people view woman as objects. I would advice that you do some reserach into the harmful effects of pornography.

What about porn where they animate them to look like children and then do stuff that way...is that right?

5. Drunkeness
drinking alchohol does not make you drunk, verses that say drunkeness are wrong only say that, getting drunk is wrong. They never say alchoholic drinks are sinful.

Did i mispell alchohol?

alcohol

I do agree with you, as long as you are of the legal age and you do not over indulge having an occasional glass of beer or wine is okay.

Please do not post here unless you have a bible verse that you believe to imply or infer that any of these topics are wrong

I did one...but you'd probably not even take them into consideration anyway the same with everyone else's.

Also, another example of cultural context...the Bible also doesn't mention illegal drugs. Should we take them because they are not mentioned?

The Bible does, however, mention how we should not allow anything in our bodies that can harm them. Drugs harm the body. See?

 

[Shizzle]

If you look at it in the context of sexual immorality...

For example, Galatians 5:16 "This I say then, walk in the Spirit and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh"

Lust, as used in Greek, "ejpiqumiva" which means a desire, craving, a desire for what is forbidden"

But still how is that specific on sexual immorality?

It says lusts of the flesh, but what means its talking about literal flesh, sure its not talking about greed, theft, gluttony.. ect?

If it was talking about lust of the flesh, since lust means a desire for what is forbidden, then it still has to feintly infer it to be sinful or its just talking about adultery ect.

How is lusting after a woman not fulfilled in animated porn? If it looks like a woman it can cause other difficulties, such as in how people view woman as objects. I would advice that you do some reserach into the harmful effects of pornography.

lusting after a woman isnt fulfilled because the woman doesnt exist.
Werent women regarded as objects in olden days with the israelites? It could lead you to, but other things could to.

What about porn where they animate them to look like children and then do stuff that way...is that right?

probly not, i dunno

I do agree with you, as long as you are of the legal age

why would legal age matter?

 

[ASLER86]

But still how is that specific on sexual immorality?

It says lusts of the flesh, but what means its talking about literal flesh, sure its not talking about greed, theft, gluttony.. ect?

If it was talking about lust of the flesh, since lust means a desire for what is forbidden, then it still has to feintly infer it to be sinful or its just talking about adultery ect.

We can avoid sexual immorality, greed, theft,etc. That was also just an example verse to show where I got the Greek for the word lust.

[/QUOTE]lusting after a woman isnt fulfilled because the woman doesnt exist.
Werent women regarded as objects in olden days with the israelites? It could lead you to, but other things could to. [/QUOTE]

If it looks like a woman, than it can still pervert and disturb a mind, correct?

Please read http://www.porn-free.org/porn_is_bad.htm and http://www.carm.org/questions/sex_pornography.htm for more information to see where I am coming from.

why would legal age matter?

If we are citizens, we are expected to obey the law. If we are Christians, we are held to a higher standard since we are held to be a light for the world.
For example, many states in the US require that you be 21 years of age in order to consume alcohol. If you consume it before then, you are breaking the law. As Christians, would Christ want us breaking the law?

 

[Shizzle]

If it looks like a woman, than it can still pervert and disturb a mind, correct?

Please read http://www.porn-free.org/porn_is_bad.htm and http://www.carm.org/questions/sex_pornography.htm for more information to see where I am coming from.

it seems like they would have a point, but i disagree with them because i havent looked at animated porn for awhile, nor felt the need to. It depends on your attitude at the time, how you look at it.

If we are citizens, we are expected to obey the law. If we are Christians, we are held to a higher standard since we are held to be a light for the world.
For example, many states in the US require that you be 21 years of age in order to consume alcohol. If you consume it before then, you are breaking the law. As Christians, would Christ want us breaking the law?

why would God care, we obey him, not the governments. The verse in the Bible that says to obey earthly governments because they were allowed by him is talking about taxes and such, it says if it conflicts with Gods law not to obey them. Deuteronomy 5:31 (5: something) says not to lean to the right nor the left therefore we can aptly assume the 21 years or older conflicts with Gods law and should not be heeded.

The reason i ignored peoples verses is because they or something similiar was posted before and the verses dont say or infer that animated porn is wrong. They posted verses, but none of the verses showed these things to be sinful.

 

[ASLER86]

it seems like they would have a point, but i disagree with them because i havent looked at animated porn for awhile, nor felt the need to. It depends on your attitude at the time, how you look at it.

So, you aren't a porn addict, thats a good thing. But just the fact that you are a Christian and you believe that is okay. Now, I have never looked at porn nor felt the desire to, partly because I am a believer and partly because I'm a female and females are less likely too...

Let me go through a few things that are true whether it is animated porn or real porn:

It distorts the view of woman as objects (already discussed this)

It distorts the view of sex

Do you really want those memories, those pictures in your mind when you marry, when you see your wife? (I am assuming you are male judging by your posts)

I have to run to class....I will get back to this later.

 

[U R my Sonshine]

Ya know what? If it keeps you from going ahead and having premarital sex, I don't think God minds if you relieve yourself WITHOUT THE PORN. I could be wrong, but I really don't think he would mind. I think this because he gave men the biological *urge* to at a relatively young age. Men no longer marry that young, so they can't take care of it with their wives....yet they still have the urge. Rather than fornicating, I think touching yourself would be a rather biblical outlet....I could be wrong....but NO ONE really knows....

I have a friend who is now a pastor that believed it was a sin when he was young. He never would "relieve himself" after a dream or a thought. It lead to a medical condition....I don't know what because he didn't discuss it very indepthly with me. I just know he spent more than his fair share of time at a urologist because of inflamation.

If you could just manage to get to business and not use porn or immoral fantasies....what is the harm?

 

[Shizzle]

It distorts the view of woman as objects (already discussed this)

It could if you looked at it that way, but the opposoite could be to

It distorts the view of sex

it could, but doesnt have to

Do you really want those memories, those pictures in your mind when you marry, when you see your wife? (I am assuming you are male judging by your posts)

i dont plan on getting married, and if i did then why would it really matter anyways? Im going to be an artist for my career, thats the main reason that this matters at all

If you could just manage to get to business and not use porn or immoral fantasies....what is the harm?

art, porn is inherently degrading
what do you define as immoral

 

[ASLER86]

why would God care, we obey him, not the governments. The verse in the Bible that says to obey earthly governments because they were allowed by him is talking about taxes and such, it says if it conflicts with Gods law not to obey them.

We do obey Him but we also have a responsibility to our country. Just because we are Christians does that give us the right to disobey the laws of our country? Should we run red lights, drink and drive, use drugs, and drink even though we are underage?

How does that look to those who are non Christians? How are we to be a witness of Christ? If we do not obey the laws of our country than to the outside world we seem like stuck up hypocritics and no one will listen to our message.


A little scriptural support (although I doubt you'll listen to this anyway):
Matthew 5:13-16
"You are the salt of the earth. But what good is salt if it has lost its flavor? Can you make it useful again? It will be thrown out and trampled underfoot as worthless. 14 You are the light of the world – like a city on a mountain, glowing in the night for all to see. 15 Don't hide your light under a basket! Instead, put it on a stand and let it shine for all. 16 In the same way, let your good deeds shine out for all to see, so that everyone will praise your heavenly Father."

Deuteronomy 5:31 (5: something) says not to lean to the right nor the left therefore we can aptly assume the 21 years or older conflicts with Gods law and should not be heeded.

Where are you getting this from????

The only time that we should not listen to the laws of man is when it conflicts with our morals...for example if we were living in the time of Hitler.

Look at it this way, you are caught drinking underage and you get in trouble with the law. Now how will your friends view you? Like I mentioned above....hypocritical.

Also, even Christ obeyed the law in many aspects, for example Jewish law.

Also, do your parents want you viewing porn, masturbating, and drinking underage and/or using illegal drugs?

If not: 20 Children, obey your parents in all things: for this is well pleasing unto the Lord. (Colossians 3:19)

The reason i ignored peoples verses is because they or something similiar was posted before and the verses dont say or infer that animated porn is wrong. They posted verses, but none of the verses showed these things to be sinful.

I already mentioned this...but they didn't have animated porn back then, that is why it is not mentioned. If you take those verses and put them in modern contex, than what do you think?

In conclusion, what you do in your private time is up to you. It is between you and God, and if it is wrong, than you will be held accountable for it.

 

[ninabina]

Shizzle....What I have to say to you brother is only this. Pray about it. If you do that, and are in communication with God in regards to this, and the Holy Spirit does not convict you in the matter, then go for it. It is your business. It appears to be healthy when not an addiction, I would just say no to porn. I am against porn and I relaly believe the Lord is too but as far as what your mind conjures up in fantasy, I do not believe you would be sinning.

*and I am a "conservative" Christian*

 

[Shizzle]

We do obey Him but we also have a responsibility to our country.

why do we have a responsibility to our country? Earthly things should not be on our priority list.

Just because we are Christians does that give us the right to disobey the laws of our country?

Yes, im serious, yes it does

Should we run red lights,

running redlights is not wrong because its against the law. Its wrong because it endangers peoples lives.

drink and drive,

drinking and driving is not wrong because its against the law. Its wrong because it endangers peoples lives.

use drugs,

using drugs is not wrong because its against the law. Its wrong because they are bad for us, and we need our physical body to serve God.

and drink even though we are underage?

drinking even though we are underage is not wrong because its against the law. I can think of no other reason why it would be wrong, studies have shown light drinking to have positive health affects.

How does that look to those who are non Christians? How are we to be a witness of Christ? If we do not obey the laws of our country than to the outside world we seem like stuck up hypocritics and no one will listen to our message.

As ive stated, we do obey the laws of our country, but not because their laws.

A little scriptural support (although I doubt you'll listen to this anyway):

why cant you people get it, whats your problem This doesnt support anything except not to hide our christianity, but to let it be known. This doesnt have consequence on rather to obey our countries laws or not!!!

Matthew 5:13-16

"You are the salt of the earth. But what good is salt if it has lost its flavor? Can you make it useful again? It will be thrown out and trampled underfoot as worthless. 14 You are the light of the world – like a city on a mountain, glowing in the night for all to see. 15 Don't hide your light under a basket! Instead, put it on a stand and let it shine for all. 16 In the same way, let your good deeds shine out for all to see, so that everyone will praise your heavenly Father."

The only time that we should not listen to the laws of man is when it conflicts with our morals...for example if we were living in the time of Hitler.

deuteronomy 5:32 So be careful to do what the LORD your God has commanded you; do not turn aside to the right or to the left.
Since God did not prohibit drinking alchohol, (it has positive affects on our health in light doses), And since he said not to turn aside to the right or the left, it is against christian morality not to drink alchohol just because the law prohibits it. We should drink it because its good for our health.

Look at it this way, you are caught drinking underage and you get in trouble with the law. Now how will your friends view you? Like I mentioned above....hypocritical.

No they wont, because A. I cant see myself getting caught B. My friends wouldnt care C. Ive never told them to obey the law or not to drink alchohol

Also, even Christ obeyed the law in many aspects, for example Jewish law.

Jesus healed on the sabbath, HE DISOBEYED THE LAW, he gave it no heed, he didnt care one bit.

Also, do your parents want you viewing porn

i dont look at porn

masturbating

not masturbating would mesh with my morals because it reduces the risk of prostate cancer, and i have to care for this earlthy body because i need it to preach to people.

drinking underage

drinking is good for you, why would it matter if i was underage, i pay no heed to the laws as jesus did.

and/or using illegal drugs?

if theyre bad for you, then it would mesh with my morals

I20 Children, obey your parents in all things: for this is well pleasing unto the Lord. (Colossians 3:19)

if my parents told me to kill myself, would i do it? The fact is that most parents care for their children, and by obeying them we are obeying a force that is trying to protect us. We can not take this verse literally, it is saying to obey our parents, i think it means not to be rude and inconsiderate towards them, and to heed their guidance.

I already mentioned this...but they didn't have animated porn back then, that is why it is not mentioned. If you take those verses and put them in modern contex, than what do you think?

I think that its not wrong, none of the verses in the bible even feintly INFER that to be inherently sinful

In conclusion, what you do in your private time is up to you. It is between you and God, and if it is wrong, than you will be held accountable for it.

And no one in this whole topic has given me a reason to why they could be wrong that i couldnt logically refute.

 

[ASLER86]

I'm really busy and stressed with finals...I will do this in brief...

why do we have a responsibility to our country? Earthly things should not be on our priority list.
Yes, im serious, yes it does

It is not on our priority list, our first and foremost responsibility is to God.

What about Romans 13:1-7
"1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor."

I think that spells it out pretty well....

using drugs is not wrong because its against the law. Its wrong because they are bad for us, and we need our physical body to serve God.

drinking even though we are underage is not wrong because its against the law. I can think of no other reason why it would be wrong, studies have shown light drinking to have positive health affects.

We do need our physical body, that is why we do not need drugs because they are bad for us. Therefore they are against the laws.

The reason why there is an age limit on drinking is to ensure that there is a level of maturity present amoung the users, and hopefully they will not pass it on to their underage friends (which many do anyway but..)

Light drinking is the key. Many teens do not practice light drinking.

As ive stated, we do obey the laws of our country, but not because their laws.

Once again I point out the above scripture.

why cant you people get it, whats your problem This doesnt support anything except not to hide our christianity, but to let it be known. This doesnt have consequence on rather to obey our countries laws or not!!!

Whew...cut the attitude boy I meant no offense.

Let me restate:
If we are disobeying the laws of our country how will non Christians view us? We (christians) are supposed to be set apart, holy, sanctified. It hurts our Christian witness if we disobey our parents and the laws of our country.

deuteronomy 5:32 So be careful to do what the LORD your God has commanded you; do not turn aside to the right or to the left.
Since God did not prohibit drinking alchohol, (it has positive affects on our health in light doses), And since he said not to turn aside to the right or the left, it is against christian morality not to drink alchohol just because the law prohibits it. We should drink it because its good for our health.

You read a lot into this. Read it in context: "32 So be careful to do what the LORD your God has commanded you; do not turn aside to the right or to the left. 33 Walk in all the way that the LORD your God has commanded you, so that you may live and prosper and prolong your days in the land that you will possess."

You must then take this and apply it to Christian principles (for example the verses in Romans).

i dont look at porn

I'm sorry I guess I was confused from your earlier post:

it seems like they would have a point, but i disagree with them because i havent looked at animated porn for awhile, nor felt the need to. It depends on your attitude at the time, how you look at it.

not masturbating would mesh with my morals because it reduces the risk of prostate cancer, and i have to care for this earlthy body because i need it to preach to people.

Okay, fine whatever. There are other things that you can do to help prevent prostate cancer...

I would advise you to talk to a Christian adult that you trust on this or your pastor, they might have some input that is beyond my expertise...especially since I don't know a guy's mind...

drinking is good for you, why would it matter if i was underage, i pay no heed to the laws as jesus did.

Christ was also going along with the exceptions to the law of the Sabbath, for example to save a life it is permitted. He applied this in the spiritual sense (he healed and forgave sins)

We can not take this verse literally, it is saying to obey our parents, i think it means not to be rude and inconsiderate towards them, and to heed their guidance.

Amazing how you read a lot into the deut verse but not this one...

"not to be rude and inconsiderate and to heed their guidance"...then if their guidance involved not wanting you to drink or not wanting you to touch. Adults have a lot of knowledge...we are supposed to listen to the advice of our elders.

I think that its not wrong, none of the verses in the bible even feintly INFER that to be inherently sinful

In your mind maybe. Try looking at them without preconcieved notions.

And no one in this whole topic has given me a reason to why they could be wrong that i couldnt logically refute.[/QUOTE]

Maybe according to your "logic"

A bit of advice...don't build your theology around one idea or one verse.

Do have any verses to support your ideas?

I will get back to this another time, I have to go to work.

 

[Paleoconservatarian]

Pray about it. If you do that, and are in communication with God in regards to this, and the Holy Spirit does not convict you in the matter, then go for it.

Dear Lord... and how, praytell, is the Spirit to convict him? How do you tell?

 

[Sam Gamgee]

Is there really such a thing as animated porn?
Why?

Who wants to see Bugs Bunny and Elmer Fudd doing it? Seems rather pointless to me.

 

[Shizzle]

Is there really such a thing as animated porn?
Why?

In japan, then anime industry is aimed at all ages, and the public doesnt have the stupid notion that anime is just for children. If you saw japanese anime, youd understand.

What about Romans 13:1-7
"1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor."

What if the law was unjust?
if it was just, what possible reason could we have to disobey it?

The reason why there is an age limit on drinking is to ensure that there is a level of maturity present amoung the users, and hopefully they will not pass it on to their underage friends (which many do anyway but..)

Light drinking is the key. Many teens do not practice light drinkin

No we dont, but 60% of twelth graders have tried marijuana, you cant generalize us all and thats what the law is doing that makes alchohol illegal under an age. That law is unjust, and doesnt even stop teens who want to get drunk from getting drunk.

"not to be rude and inconsiderate and to heed their guidance"...then if their guidance involved not wanting you to drink or not wanting you to touch. Adults have a lot of knowledge...we are supposed to listen to the advice of our elders.

I will not heed the advice of those who have accepted this american attitude about things. If any adults here could give me a reason for it to be wrong, i wouldnt do it. If i talk to my dad about it, and he says its wrong but doesnt and cannot give a reason, and the people here cannot give a reason, then im stuck with my dad being a nuisance and still not thinking its wrong.

Do have any verses to support your ideas?

Im saying their not wrong, neutral. Your saying they are, is the bible going to say "thats not wrong, its okay"? But it would say or infer something to be wrong, give me any verses to why these things could be wrong and i will show you why those verses dont show why these things are wrong.

 

[Homie]

touching yourself = wrong
it's in the Bible, why do I have to repeat myself.

Shizzle, in some cases you make a good point, but that touching yourself and drinking is "good for you" health wise, that is taking it too far. It may not be bad for you in moderate amounts, but it is definately not good for you. That is just something you keep telling yourself so that you can justify what you are doing. Some studies probably show that, but so what? Some studies say that women can get pregnant without being impregnated, that doesn't make it true.