Why do you defy Jesus' wishes by petitioning Him in prayer?

[Deadworm]

The NT encourages us to praise, thank, worship, and love Jesus. In those senses, we of course pray to Jesus. But all my life, my desire to commune with Christ has prompted me to offer up petitions to Him as well, and recently I have been asking myself why I do so in defiance of his expressed wishes. Consider these 3 NT texts:

(1) The Lord's Prayer is offered as our model prayer ("Pray then like this (Matthew 6:9)." Jesus teaches us to address our petitions to "our Father," not to Him.

(2) Similarly, for the post-Easter life of the church Jesus teaches us to pray to the Father in Jesus' name: "On that day you will ask nothing of me. Very truly I tell you, if you ask anything of the Father in my name, He will give it to you (John 16:23)." The time reference ("on that day") negates the validity of petitioning Jesus while He is still physically present (14:14). In any case, "me" in 14:14 is missing in some early Christian manscripts. Petitioning God in Jesus' name acknowledges Jesus' role as an indwelling empowering presence and as our mediator and intercessor.

(3) The petitionary prayer of Jerusalem church leaders in Acts 4:24-30 is addressed not to Jesus, but to God as "Lord." God as "Lord" is distinguished from Jesus in 4:27.

Some Christians wrongly cite 5 texts in support of offering petitions to Jesus:
(1) As Stephen is about to die by stoning, he has a vision of Jesus and calls out to Him (Acts 7:59). Stephen's cry is commonly cited as a mandate for petitioning Jesus. But this claim can be refuted by 2 points: (a) The fact that Stephen actually sees Jesus in a vision reduces his request to an oral communication with someone he sees and disqualifies its status as prayer. (b) The Greek verb used is not a verb for praying, but "keleomai", which means "call."

(2) Similarly, John's cry "Come, Lord Jesus" in Revelation 22:20 is responding to a direct word from Jesus in John's visionary state and therefore does not qualify as a model for praying to Jesus.

(3) But John's cry reflects a Greek translation of the Aramaic liturgical phrase "maranatha," which means "may the Lord come (1 Corinthians 16:22)." Liturgical phrases, like hymns, are analogous to poetry that express longings, not to prayer petitions. The early church knew that Jesus promised to return; so no petition for that is necessary; but expressing a longing for His return expresses a deep wish and therefore constitutes worship.

(4) The phrase "all those in every place who call upon the name of the Lord Jesus" in 1 Corinthians 1:2 refers to acclamation of Jesus in worship, not to petitionary prayer addressed to Jesus (so Hans Conzelmann, "1 Corinthians (Hermeneia), p. 23.).

(5) Paul addresses petitionary prayers to "the Lord (God)," not to Jesus. 2 Corinthians 12:8 is no exception: "Three times I appealed to the Lord about this ("thorn in the flesh"), that it would leave me, but He said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you; for power is made perfect in weakness." Paul uses "the Spirit of Christ" interchangeably with the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:9; Philippians 1:19; Galatians 4:6) to designate God's saving power in action. So when Paul follows up his petition by expressing his hope that "power of Christ may dwell in me (2 Corinthians 12:8b)," he is not implying that his petitions for healing were directed towards Christ.

 

[Archie the Preacher]

A somewhat 'new' Christian friend asked me about this essential question. So I have given it some thought.

Jesus is God. Jesus the Christ - for most of us the two words of 'name' and 'title' are interchangeable AND the Lord is smart enough to know that - is the Second Person of the God head. Talk to one of them, you've talked to them all.

God is NOT a legalist. If God were a legalist, He'd have most likely flushed us all down the Cosmic Commode years ago and raised dolphins. Or roses. God also possesses a better sense of humor than most of us.

God is not so stupid He doesn't understand our ignorance. God has even made provision for any errors in praying. Romans 8:26 and 27 shed some light on this.

Relax; the matter has already been addressed and 'fixed'.

 

[Deadworm]

Archie, you are just offering the standard unsatisfactory answer that prompted the thread. I repeat: the Risen Lord is our heavenly intercessor and mediator. Praying to the Father in Jesus' name acknowledges that fact and praying directly to Jesus trivializes it. Now I don't believe in praying to Mary or the saints, but I'm confident that God answers the faith reflected by these prayers anyway. You duck the question of why your simplistic grasp of the Trinity entitles you to defy Jesus' expressed wishes and the pattern of petitionary address modeled by the NT in general. I remind you that Jesus did say "The Father is greater than I."

 

[FireDragon76]

It's OK to pray to Jesus. Certainly we can address God the Father as well, but there is a long history speaking directly to Jesus Christ in prayer, going back to ancient times.

There are even prayers to the Holy Spirit, in fact I can think of several off the top of my head.

Distinguishing between prayer and liturgy is a scholastic distinction without merit. Liturgy is prayer. As Augustine said, when you sing, you pray twice.

 

[Archie the Preacher]

Archie, you are just offering the standard unsatisfactory answer that prompted the thread.

So I wasted my time. No, it's actually God's time, I just use it.

 

[Deadworm]

It's OK to pray to Jesus. Certainly we can address God the Father as well, but there is a long history speaking directly to Jesus Christ in prayer, going back to ancient times.

There are even prayers to the Holy Spirit, in fact I can think of several off the top of my head.

Distinguishing between prayer and liturgy is a scholastic distinction without merit. Liturgy is prayer. As Augustine said, when you sing, you pray twice.

To me, you are merely confessing that there is a long and lamentable tradition of defying Jesus' express wishes. I guess my two responders care about their own and patristic wishes, and not Jesus' will as expressed in His teaching,

 

[FireDragon76]

I don't see how its illicit to pray to Jesus merely because he says we should pray to the Father. the two kinds of prayer are not mutually exclusive.

Prayer is very much about desire. If something is not explicitly prohibited, it is a matter of Christian liberty.

 

[Deadworm]

FireDragon: "I don't see how its illicit to pray to Jesus merely because he says we should pray to the Father. the two kinds of prayer are not mutually exclusive."

Jesus twice makes it clear that prayer is to be addressed to the Father, and
the OP documents the NT pattern. We pray in Jesus' name in recognition of His role of providing us access to the Father. He is our advocate, intercessor, and mediator. Why do you feel entitled to trivialize those roles in petitionary prayer?

"If something is not explicitly prohibited, it is a matter of Christian liberty."

Jesus does not merely twice specify the Father as the addressee of our petitions; He adds the command: "On that day (after the Resurrection), you will ask nothing of me."

 

[Propianotuner]

Sharing our worldly concerns with God is perfectly scriptural. Just look at the petitioning Psalms. God understands our struggles, and not only sympathizes with them but wishes to relieve us of the anxiety of being not of the world.

It is worshipful to tell the Lord about what troubles us, because it is a form of prayer that acknowledges how God is magnanimously benevolent. Prayer given in the spirit of the petitioning Psalms is not done with the attitude that God has any compunction to act however a mere creature of His might see fitting. The petition is given because we aren't expected to handle life in an ungodly world without the solace of the Lord.

Prayer in general is not so much of an "I'll say this or that to God and wait for a response". God already knows and His countenance towards everything is anything but unclear. He's essentially waiting for your response, He made the world in which both your joys and griefs happen, so He wants to know what you think about it. If you aren't open with God about what you think then He can't perfect your nature, and seep more and more of His love into your life.

Psalm 86 here is not a whining session but a beautiful example of candor and intimacy with the Lord:

1 Bow down thine ear, O LORD, hear me: for I am poor and needy.

2 Preserve my soul; for I am holy: O thou my God, save thy servant that trusteth in thee.

3 Be merciful unto me, O Lord: for I cry unto thee daily.

4 Rejoice the soul of thy servant: for unto thee, O Lord, do I lift up my soul.

5 For thou, Lord, art good, and ready to forgive; and plenteous in mercy unto all them that call upon thee.

6 Give ear, O LORD, unto my prayer; and attend to the voice of my supplications.

7 In the day of my trouble I will call upon thee: for thou wilt answer me.

8 Among the gods there is none like unto thee, O Lord; neither are there any works like unto thy works.

9 All nations whom thou hast made shall come and worship before thee, O Lord; and shall glorify thy name.

10 For thou art great, and doest wondrous things: thou art God alone.

11 Teach me thy way, O LORD; I will walk in thy truth: unite my heart to fear thy name.

12 I will praise thee, O Lord my God, with all my heart: and I will glorify thy name for evermore.

13 For great is thy mercy toward me: and thou hast delivered my soul from the lowest hell.

14 O God, the proud are risen against me, and the assemblies of violent men have sought after my soul; and have not set thee before them.

15 But thou, O Lord, art a God full of compassion, and gracious, longsuffering, and plenteous in mercy and truth.

16 O turn unto me, and have mercy upon me; give thy strength unto thy servant, and save the son of thine handmaid.

17 Shew me a token for good; that they which hate me may see it, and be ashamed: because thou, LORD, hast holpen me, and comforted me.

 

[Propianotuner]

The NT encourages us to praise, thank, worship, and love Jesus. In those senses, we of course pray to Jesus. But all my life, my desire to commune with Christ has prompted me to offer up petitions to Him as well, and recently I have been asking myself why I do so in defiance of his expressed wishes. Consider these 3 NT texts:

(1) The Lord's Prayer is offered as our model prayer ("Pray then like this (Matthew 6:9)." Jesus teaches us to address our petitions to "our Father," not to Him.

(2) Similarly, for the post-Easter life of the church Jesus teaches us to pray to the Father in Jesus' name: "On that day you will ask nothing of me. Very truly I tell you, if you ask anything of the Father in my name, He will give it to you (John 16:23)." The time reference ("on that day") negates the validity of petitioning Jesus while He is still physically present (14:14). In any case, "me" in 14:14 is missing in some early Christian manscripts. Petitioning God in Jesus' name acknowledges Jesus' role as an indwelling empowering presence and as our mediator and intercessor.

(3) The petitionary prayer of Jerusalem church leaders in Acts 4:24-30 is addressed not to Jesus, but to God as "Lord." God as "Lord" is distinguished from Jesus in 4:27.

Some Christians wrongly cite 5 texts in support of offering petitions to Jesus:
(1) As Stephen is about to die by stoning, he has a vision of Jesus and calls out to Him (Acts 7:59). Stephen's cry is commonly cited as a mandate for petitioning Jesus. But this claim can be refuted by 2 points: (a) The fact that Stephen actually sees Jesus in a vision reduces his request to an oral communication with someone he sees and disqualifies its status as prayer. (b) The Greek verb used is not a verb for praying, but "keleomai", which means "call."

(2) Similarly, John's cry "Come, Lord Jesus" in Revelation 22:20 is responding to a direct word from Jesus in John's visionary state and therefore does not qualify as a model for praying to Jesus.

(3) But John's cry reflects a Greek translation of the Aramaic liturgical phrase "maranatha," which means "may the Lord come (1 Corinthians 16:22)." Liturgical phrases, like hymns, are analogous to poetry that express longings, not to prayer petitions. The early church knew that Jesus promised to return; so no petition for that is necessary; but expressing a longing for His return expresses a deep wish and therefore constitutes worship.

(4) The phrase "all those in every place who call upon the name of the Lord Jesus" in 1 Corinthians 1:2 refers to acclamation of Jesus in worship, not to petitionary prayer addressed to Jesus (so Hans Conzelmann, "1 Corinthians (Hermeneia), p. 23.).

(5) Paul addresses petitionary prayers to "the Lord (God)," not to Jesus. 2 Corinthians 12:8 is no exception: "Three times I appealed to the Lord about this ("thorn in the flesh"), that it would leave me, but He said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you; for power is made perfect in weakness." Paul uses "the Spirit of Christ" interchangeably with the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:9; Philippians 1:19; Galatians 4:6) to designate God's saving power in action. So when Paul follows up his petition by expressing his hope that "power of Christ may dwell in me (2 Corinthians 12:8b)," he is not implying that his petitions for healing were directed towards Christ.

God will never despise a prayer because of superfluous semantic issues or intellectual mistakes on our part. Prayer is a response to God's wish for regular community with individual believers. If it is given in a worshipful spirit and draws His beloved closer to Him, surely that is what pleases God.

 

[Linet Kihonge]

If the prayers don't evoke God's name why should he interfere with whoever you want to talk to,
"In that day you will no longer ask me anything. Very truly I tell you, my Father will give you whatever you ask in my name."

So when people make petitions they ask in whose name? and please, Do I pray, "Sacred Heart, bless this day, in "his name". Who is granting who what request and in whose name? You end up confusing the instructions of prayer. Better still, St. Paul pray for the deliverance from evil in Jesus name?" Continue praying, you will have all requests taken care of!!!

 

[hedrick]

In the Reformed tradition we have this view that when it comes to how we deal with God, we should only do what we are specifically authorized to do. I agree that God will surely accept the prayers of people who pray to Jesus, but I feel more comfortable doing as Jesus taught.

Saying that Jesus is God doesn't help, since the question is not whether to pray to God, but how to pray to God, and in that context Jesus did differentiate between himself and the Father, as you say. (It is perfectly consistent with the Trinity to differentiate between Father and Son. It had better be, or Jesus is a heretic.)