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Did Jesus Die for Future Sins Committed by People?

Carl Emerson

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1. We will find out when we are judged if we were a "true believer."
A true believer obeys God's commandments until he dies. 1 John 2:3, 1 John 5:2
A true believer masters his passions. He crucifies his fleshly desires. Galatians 5:24
A true believer loves his neighbor as himself. He does good to him; he does not harm his neighbor in any way. Romans 13:8-10​
2. Eternal life with God is the reward for a Christ-like life.

Acts 20:24 As for me, I do not regard my life as of any value, only that I finish the race and complete the mission that I received from the Lord Jesus—to bear witness to the gospel of God’s grace.

1 Corinthians 9:23-25 ou are well aware that while all the runners in the stadium compete in the race, only one wins the prize. Run in such a way as to win the prize. 25 Everyone who seeks a prize submits himself to rigorous self-discipline in every respect. They do so to win a perishable crown, while we seek an imperishable one. James 1:12
Galatians 5:7 You were running a good race. Who kept you from obeying the truth?

Shortly before Paul's martyrdom, he writes to Timothy:
2 Timothy 4:6-8 As for me, I am already being poured out as a libation, and the time has come for my departure. 7 I have fought the good fight; I have finished the race; I have kept the faith. 8 Now waiting for me is the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me on that Day—and not only to me, but to all those who have eagerly longed for his appearance.
3. The Bible.

Answer 1. avoids the clear message of Jer 32:40 - did Jeremiah get it wrong ??

Answer 2. denies that Jesus righteousness on the Cross saves us.

Answer 3. avoids admitting your learned theology came from a human source - I doubt it is mainstream Catholic they seem to centralise the Cross in the salvation story, not our works.
 
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Jan001

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Incorrect...

Romans 9:

NASB
23 And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles.

CEV
He did this by showing how glorious he is when he has pity on the people he has chosen to share in his glory.

NLT
He does this to make the riches of his glory shine even brighter on those to whom he shows mercy, who were prepared in advance for glory.
You need v. 22 for context. This was a supposition (hypothesis).

From the Greek:
Roman 9:22-23 (What if)




AI explanation:

Romans 9:22-23 Meaning

In Romans 9:22-23, the Greek text provides insight into the contrasting fates of individuals based on their relationship with God. The key Greek words used in these verses are "katartizo" and "proetoimazo".

In verse 22, the Greek word "katartizo" is used, which can be translated as "prepared" or "retrofitted". This word is in the middle voice, indicating that the individuals acted upon themselves to reject God, leading to their being fitted for destruction. This is illustrated by the example of Pharaoh, who chose to reject God, leading to his own destruction.

In verse 23, the Greek word "proetoimazo" is used, which means "prepared beforehand". This word emphasizes that God has prepared believers in advance for mercy and glory through faith in Jesus. This preparation is intended to demonstrate God's mercy and to make known the riches of His glory.

The verses highlight God's sovereignty and purpose in creation, which is to disclose His glory through both His wrath and His mercy.
 
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Jan001

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Answer 1. avoids the clear message of Jer 32:40 - did Jeremiah get it wrong ??

Answer 2. denies that Jesus righteousness on the Cross saves us.

Answer 3. avoids admitting your learned theology came from a human source - I doubt it is mainstream Catholic they seem to centralise the Cross in the salvation story, not our works.
1. No. Jeremiah did not get it wrong. Your understanding of what he wrote is not what Jeremiah meant.

A couple different versions:

Jer 32:40 I will make an everlasting covenant with them: I will never stop doing good to them, and I will inspire them to fear me, so that they will never turn away from me. NIV
40 I will make with them an everlasting covenant, that I will not turn away from doing good to them; and I will put the fear of me in their hearts, that they may not turn from me. RSV
God does not force all people to obey him. You seem to believe God does force all people to obey him.

2. Firstly, Jesus redeemed mankind by his death on the cross. After that, we must remain obedient to his gospel (commandments) until our death in order to be judged worthy to inherit eternal life.

3. Jesus saves us. We cannot save ourselves by ourselves.
Jesus judges all people. He has criteria (our works) that he uses to judge us worthy or unworthy to inherit eternal life.

James 2:20-26 Do you want to be shown, you shallow man, that faith apart from works is barren? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar? 22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by works, 23 and the scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness”; and he was called the friend of God. 24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25 And in the same way was not also Rahab the harlot justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way? 26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so faith apart from works is dead.
John 5:28-29 Do not be astonished at this, for the hour is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and will come out: those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of condemnation.
I am quitting this discussion. Perhaps someone else will continue with you.
:wave:
 
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Carl Emerson

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God does not force all people to obey him. You seem to believe God does force all people to obey him.

1. Really !!! - quote me where I said that.

I guess it is getting too hot in the kitchen...

Jeremiah clearly says what I have been saying even your quote from the NIV confirms that.

2. Salvation by works is in clear contradiction to Scripture...

Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

3. WRONG AGAIN...

1 Cor 13:

2 If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.

Works without the Love of Jesus inside you motivating them count for nothing.

That comes back to your heart relationship with Him and your obedience to His Spirit within.
 
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Jan001

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The Great Christian Race

The prize: eternal life.

The entry fee is paid for us: Jesus Christ's sacrificial death on the cross pays our entry fee.
Genesis 3:24, Romans 5:12

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God— 9 not because of works, lest any man should boast. (Jesus saves us as his gift to us.) 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. (Now that we are saved, we must do the good works that God has prepared for us to do in order to be judged "worthy" to inherit eternal life.) Matthew 7:21, Matthew 12:50, Matthew 10:37-39, Luke 20:35, Colossians 1:9-10

Our entry is confirmed by our repentance (Acts 3:19, Acts 2:38) and our baptism as commanded by Jesus in Matthew 28:18-20.

Now, we begin our race. We must finish our race in order to win the prize—eternal life with God in heaven.


1 Corinthians 9:24-27 Do you not know that in a race the runners all compete, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win it. 25 Athletes exercise self-control in all things; they do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable one. 26 So I do not run aimlessly, nor do I box as though beating the air, 27 but I punish my body and enslave it, so that after proclaiming to others I myself should not be disqualified.

Hebrews 12:1-2 Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight and the sin that clings so closely, and let us run with perseverance the race that is set before us, 2 looking to Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith, who for the sake of the joy that was set before him endured the cross, disregarding its shame, and has taken his seat at the right hand of the throne of God.

Galatians 5:5-8
For through the Spirit, by faith, we eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything; the only thing that counts is faith working through love. 7 You were running well; who prevented you from obeying the truth? 8 Such persuasion does not come from the one who calls you.


Egregious sin causes us to stumble and fall. (Hebrews 10:26-27, 1 John 5:15-17) We must repent and confess these sins in order to continue our race. 1 John 1:9

2 Peter 1:4-11 Thus he has given us, through these things, his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may escape from the corruption that is in the world because of lust and may become participants of the divine nature. 5 For this very reason, you must make every effort to support your faith with excellence, and excellence with knowledge, 6 and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with endurance, and endurance with godliness, 7 and godliness with mutual affection, and mutual affection with love. 8 For if these things are yours and are increasing among you, they keep you from being ineffective and unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For anyone who lacks these things is blind, suffering from eye disease, forgetful of the cleansing of past sins. 10 Therefore, brothers and sisters, be all the more eager to confirm your call and election, for if you do this, you will never stumble. 11 For in this way, entry into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be richly provided for you.


We must love God with our whole being and love our neighbors as ourselves in order to finish our race well.

Luke 10:25-28 And behold, a lawyer stood up to put him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 26 He said to him, “What is written in the law? How do you read?” 27 And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.” 28 And he said to him, “You have answered right; do this, and you will live.”


Our death ends our race. Hebrews 9:27, Revelation 2:10


2 Timothy 4:5-8 As for you, be sober in everything, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, carry out your ministry fully. 6 As for me, I am already being poured out as a libation, and the time of my departure has come. 7 I have fought the good fight; I have finished the race; I have kept the faith. 8 From now on there is reserved for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will give me on that day, and not only to me but also to all who have longed for his appearing.

Matthew 25:21 His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you have been faithful over a little, I will set you over much; enter into the joy of your master.’
 
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Carl Emerson

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All good - the problem is that good theology must correctly represent God's character accurately.

You suggest God watches over you at you last breath and throws you into Hell if you haven't confessed and repented of every sin.

My God calls me a friend and adopts me into His eternal family and we know each other.
 
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Jan001

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Egregious sins must be confessed and repented in order for us to be judged worthy to inherit eternal life.


Our own egregious sin
( Ephesians 5:5-7, 1 Corinthians 6:8-10, Colossians 3:5-6, Galatians 5:19-21, Revelation 21:8) separates us from God. (Genesis 3:24, Hebrews 10:26-27, 1 John 5:15-17) We must repent and confess these sins before we die. 1 John 1:9


Non-egregious sins do not need to be confessed in order for us to be judged worthy to inherit eternal life.

We all sin non-egregious sins every day. Examples:
Matthew 12:36, being grumpy to others, yelling at your children or grandchildren, wasting time when you should be doing something constructive, etc.
 
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Dan Perez

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1 Peter 2:24 says that Jesus “himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed.” Based on this and other Passages in the Bible, there is at present prevailing assertions that ‘Jesus died for our sins,’ and ‘Through Jesus, our sins were nailed to the cross he was on.’ There is no doubt of Jesus’ intent to die for the sins of people that were committed up to Jesus’ being nailed to the cross. But what of sins committed by people after Jesus’ resurrection, up to the present time? Has all sin been eradicated for all time?

Consider 1 John 1:9 “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” That at least suggests that after Jesus’ resurrection, sin still exists. Consider Romans 6:23 which says “For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” If Jesus took the punishment for sins for all time, then why is the subject of sin brought up by Passages like these? It appears that sin is still around. In fact, long after Jesus’ resurrection, people were punished by Christians for sins committed which rose to heresy and sacrilege. So, there is little doubt that sin is still among us.

How do we deal with this sin? Seems that two paths have been established. One path, which is followed by the Jews, is to abide by Leviticus 23:27...31 which says, “Now on the tenth day of this seventh month is the Day of Atonement....It is a statute forever throughout your generations in all your dwelling places. ...” The second path, which is upheld by the Christian faith, is to confess your sins without requiring a time frame; that is, it appears that no mention is made of acknowledging our sins in a certain day and month like the Day of Atonement.

How is it that Christianity, which is linked to Judaism at least in regard to the same God, chose a way to deal with sins that’s different from the way Jews deal with it? In other ways, Christianity has linked itself to Judaism. For one thing, it claims the same inheritance left for the Jews by Abraham, as stated in Galatians 3:28-29. An argument might be made that Abraham existed before the Jews were freed from bondage in Egypt by God and in exchange were bound by the Laws that God gave Moses.

There is no doubt that Jesus came to us as a Jew. Matthew 1:1 Links Jesus to the genealogy that includes the son of David. Well, David’s Genealogy is linked to the Twelve Tribes of Israel, who were the ones held in bondage in Egypt whom God freed, and who were thus bound to the Law, including the Day of Atonement.

What does Jesus say about the Law? According to Matthew 5:17–20, Jesus says he did not come to change the Law, but to fulfill it. How did we get from Jesus’ fulfilling the Law to dealing with our sins by merely confessing them in the time of our choosing instead of what the Law says about when to acknowledge our sins? Colossians 2:14, which appears to imply that the Law is basically a framework for dealing with a record of debts which were incurred as a result of the sins that were committed, and such record was nailed to the cross along with Jesus. Well, the sins of the people were nailed to the cross also, yet sins still exist to this day. And Jesus in Matthew 5:18 says “not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.” Has all been accomplished, when people still sin, and Christianity infers we should confess our sins toward asking for forgiveness?

Taking all this into consideration, considering Christianity has linked itself to Judaism by way of the inheritance of Abraham, and that sin still exists, doesn’t it have a ways to go to delink itself from the Law of Judaism that deals with sin, if Christians worship the same God as Jews and has accepted God’s Son as their own?
And Revelation 13:8 says that Jesus was SLAIN before the foundation of the world !!

dan p
 
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Carl Emerson

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And Revelation 13:8 says that Jesus was SLAIN before the foundation of the world !!

dan p

That is because the event of the Cross while anchored in chronology is timeless in nature.

If Jesus didn't die for future sins there would be no one saved post Cross.
 
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