Why do you all adore Paul Washer??

Nadiine · Nov 14, 2008

kellyc said:
i wasn't talking about you wade. something not of faith being sin is not referring to an ordinary activity (like fishing perhaps, or driving). i am not sure where the zeal in prosecuting a fellow christian for not agreeing with a small point comes from. human nature perhaps. that was not about anyone in particular, just the tone of this whole forum is sometimes so persecuting.

alot of it SEEMS persecutory becuz many in this forum are often so rebellious to truth of God.

I've said it many times here, in these sections, it's almost as if we're witnessing to the lost than being within a Christian congregation - so many here defy even the very basics of what Christianity is.

It's quite disturbing. Alot of what I read shouldn't even be topics in our sections, they belong in other sections - like outreach areas.

kellyc · Nov 14, 2008

i can agree with you there. my feeling is that the basics are very important, the other stuff is not.

Nadiine · Nov 14, 2008

kellyc said:
i can agree with you there. my feeling is that the basics are very important, the other stuff is not.

Ya,... this is the reason so many Christians have left this site.

In the supposed Christian sections, we've been having to defend basic Christianity that should already be an established fact here. The other sections were only worse.

kellyc · Nov 14, 2008

i used to visit the ethics forum but it was too frightening! a lot of christian hating going on in christian forums.

Nadiine · Nov 14, 2008

kellyc said:
i used to visit the ethics forum but it was too frightening! a lot of christian hating going on in christian forums.

As I read it, it wasn't Christian hating, it was orthodox vs. unorthodox
& many of the unorthodox persuasion reject the Trinity for starters....

kellyc · Nov 14, 2008

we might be talking about a different forum, i meant this one

http://christianforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=998

zerosaiyaman · Nov 14, 2008

People forget this too easily:

Titus 3:9-10 9But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless. 10Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him.

If someone won't listen to what's clearly stated in scripture, they sure aren't going to listen to me or anyone else. So, there is no point in this. The scripture leaves no room for argument, yet argument will not cease, so all that's going on is strife being built more and more, division increasing, and that is worthless.

Romans 14:13 (NIV) Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother’s way.

Ephesians 4:2-3 (NIV) 2Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. 3Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace.

So I'm out of this thread, for the sake of sanity, and to keep peace..

Titus 3:4-7 4But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, 5he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life.

Wade Smith · Nov 14, 2008

zerosaiyaman said:
People forget this too easily:

Titus 3:9-10 9But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless. 10Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him.

If someone won't listen to what's clearly stated in scripture, they sure aren't going to listen to me or anyone else. So, there is no point in this. The scripture leaves no room for argument, yet argument will not cease, so all that's going on is strife being built more and more, division increasing, and that is worthless.

Romans 14:13 (NIV) Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brothers way.

Ephesians 4:2-3 (NIV) 2Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. 3Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace.

So I'm out of this thread, for the sake of sanity, and to keep peace..

Titus 3:4-7 4But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, 5he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life.

But then if we never rebuke or correct anyone then aren't we also disobeying God anyway?

Even Jesus said that he came to bring division (which contradicts the ecumenical attitude.)

I mean, I get so tired of searching and quoting all the various scriptures that tell us to rebuke one another, I should just make a cut/paste with them all to save myself some trouble.

But seriously, if we are not to step in and say, "Wait a minute, that's not right. That's misleading, and this other is heresy, etc." then what's the point?

What do you do with Ezekiel 3:18-21, and other such passages?

The brand of Christianity that we are being spoonfed by all the "big name" PMA preachers today, and the majority of the people on this very forum and others like it, is "don't say anything negative about anyone or anything, etc." I should know, I got banned for it already.

Well friend, that is not the God of the Bible, and that is not the message of a Biblical preacher. Paul even called it, "Another Gospel, another spirit, and another Jesus..."

kellyc · Nov 15, 2008

are any of us in authority over the other? i agree that if someone says something outrageous we should mention it, but who of us in the position to offer rebukes, as though we were righteous over the other? and also, rebuking in a spirit of argumentativeness is not going to help anything. i am going to try harder to get along with everyone, and if someone for example, posts HAHAHAHA over and over to one of my posts they disagree with (because they are such a superior christian intellect) i shall just ignore it.

Nadiine · Nov 15, 2008

kellyc said:
are any of us in authority over the other? i agree that if someone says something outrageous we should mention it, but who of us in the position to offer rebukes, as though we were righteous over the other? and also, rebuking in a spirit of argumentativeness is not going to help anything. i am going to try harder to get along with everyone, and if someone for example, posts HAHAHAHA over and over to one of my posts they disagree with (because they are such a superior christian intellect) i shall just ignore it.

rebuke has nothing to do with authority OVER another - we're called to the SAME standards by God.

The issue today is that most refuse all correction given by other believers today.
When Wade spoke earlier of music & games, I didn't attack him for it, he's right about most of them & it calls me to careful about what I engage in.
IF someone doesn't feel convicted about it, then don't. But don't attack him for it either. (it makes them just as wrong for attacking a brother & accusing him of selfrighteousness & judgment).

In obvious things like people telling us to practice the Levitical laws we aren't under, then fine - let them think it's wrong & respect them for their convictions & hope they do know the Lord.

It's come down to anytime anyone claims something is wrong or sinful, they're attacked and that's just as wrong too.
This works both ways.
(& people wouldn't HAVE to correct others if they'de just admit what the Bible teaches is true about it clearly). Alot of people end up forcing us to sound like negative, hostile people in constant correction - but if we didn't read posts promoting open nudity, drunkenness, porn, street drugs, homosexuality, fornication, paganism etc. we wouldn't sound like this.

Floatingaxe · Nov 15, 2008

Nadiine said:
rebuke has nothing to do with authority OVER another - we're called to the SAME standards by God.

The issue today is that most refuse all correction given by other believers today.
When Wade spoke earlier of music & games, I didn't attack him for it, he's right about most of them & it calls me to careful about what I engage in.
IF someone doesn't feel convicted about it, then don't. But don't attack him for it either. (it makes them just as wrong for attacking a brother & accusing him of selfrighteousness & judgment).

In obvious things like people telling us to practice the Levitical laws we aren't under, then fine - let them think it's wrong & respect them for their convictions & hope they do know the Lord.

It's come down to anytime anyone claims something is wrong or sinful, they're attacked and that's just as wrong too.
This works both ways.
(& people wouldn't HAVE to correct others if they'de just admit what the Bible teaches is true about it clearly). Alot of people end up forcing us to sound like negative, hostile people in constant correction - but if we didn't read posts promoting open nudity, drunkenness, porn, street drugs, homosexuality, fornication, paganism etc. we wouldn't sound like this.

What Nadiine said...

kellyc · Nov 15, 2008

rebuke has nothing to do with authority OVER another - we're called to the SAME standards by God.

it SHOULDN'T have anything to do with taking authority.

Floatingaxe · Nov 15, 2008

We do take authority over spiritual error. You bet we do, in Christ. We know where it comes from and we have authority over it, especially when it resists.

Titus 2:15
You must teach these things and encourage the believers to do them. You have the authority to correct them when necessary, so don’t let anyone disregard what you say.

kellyc · Nov 15, 2008

honestly, i don't think this is the case in this forum usually. i would like to imagine (and maybe it is wishful thinking) that authority taken over spiritual error of a fellow christian would be done with humility and love, not a sense of triumph.

Floatingaxe · Nov 15, 2008

kellyc said:
honestly, i don't think this is the case in this forum usually. i would like to imagine (and maybe it is wishful thinking) that authority taken over spiritual error of a fellow christian would be done with humility and love, not a sense of triumph.

I doubt there is much call for triumph in this place, kelly. Most correction is rejected soundly. People aren't here to learn, mostly. They are here to opine and when countered, they dig in and stand firm in their error.

The only triumph a Spirit-filled and Spirit-led believer in this place would ever experience is when a fellow bliever posts this:

...sorry to say. Wouldn't you agree?

kellyc · Nov 15, 2008

yes, and in what i am describing i think the correction doesn't usually come from a spirit filled place. i am not going to say someone is not a christian just because they act like a horses rear end online (and of course sometimes the written word doesn't come across as it's intended) but some of the most strident correctors seem- well, crazy, to me.

edited to say i am getting way ot! sorry

Floatingaxe · Nov 15, 2008

kellyc said:
yes, and in what i am describing i think the correction doesn't usually come from a spirit filled place. i am not going to say someone is not a christian just because they act like a horses rear end online (and of course sometimes the written word doesn't come across as it's intended) but some of the most strident correctors seem- well, crazy, to me.

edited to say i am getting way ot! sorry

BlackSabb · Nov 15, 2008

Wade Smith said:
BlackSabb has demanded that I no longer post on this thread and has reported me ot the mods to be banned again, so I may as well respond again before I get banned, since I am here being accused of being a false teacher.

This is not true and a distortion of the pm that I sent to Wade Smith. I never "demanded" that he refrain from posting in this (my) thread. I respectfully asked him to voluntarily refrain from posting in this thread.

And I never called him a "false teacher". I believe for the record, that he is sincere, but simply legalistic and harsh in his judgements.

Floatingaxe · Nov 15, 2008

At least he is judging rightly, and for that he must stay.

BlackSabb · Nov 15, 2008

Floatingaxe said:
At least he is judging rightly, and for that he must stay.

Yeah, judging eveyone else that dares to disagree with him or have a mere difference of opinion (as you do too by implication and assocation) as "hypocrites" and "false workers" and of "the Devil" etc.

Yeah, that's so charming, ain't it? It makes for a great conversation. I hope you're proud and smug.

Nice one.

Thanks to this attitude, this thread has turned into a slanging match, has been derailed and has generally gone down the toilet, with people judging others, flaming, slandering, defaming and generally being anything than Christian like.

Like I say, "nice one". I hope your proud and smug.

The attitudes of various posters around here confirm what I have known all my life: that hard core, fundamentalist extremist Christians are unable to have a civil debate with anyone that doesn't agree with them. It's a case of "my way or the highway". Or more accurately, "my interpretation of the Bible or the highyway"-to Hell.

Is this what is considered good Christian "fruit?"

Why do you all adore Paul Washer??

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