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Why do YE Creationists insist on a simplistic literal reading of the bible?
- Thread starter Amora
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Split Rock
Conflation of Blathers
I have "faith" in them because they work.
That's because you don't mind mixing apples and oranges. Faith in a technique that produces measurable results is quite different from faith in what scripture calls "the unseen." I am very willing to drop my faith in radioisotope dating, if it is found to be inaccurate. Are you willing to drop yoru faith in the bible if it is found to be inaccurate?
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Evolutionists tend to fight among themselves more then they fight with non evolutionists. They put on a good face for the recruits. But for the troops there is not nearly as much agreement as they want people to believe there is.
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Can you show some examples of evolutionists 'fighting amongst themselves'? And why are you talking about evolutionists and nonevolutionists when you were just talking about Christians and nonChristians just a few posts ago? Those terms aren't even remotely synonymous.
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frogman2x
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Where does it tell us that?
Since both are part of God's plan to teach us what He wants, they should not contradict one another, and neither should "trump" the other. The Bible tells us that it is profitable for the teaching of righteousnes. It does not tell us that it is inerrant in science. [/QUOTE]
It doesn't have t. If God says it, it is true and where the Bible mentions science it is true. Gen 1:11, 21, 24 and 26 make evolution false, unless you think God looks like an ape.
Where is dyour evidence it is legend?
You will find the stories of king Arthur in the fiction section and the stories of Churchill and FDR in the non-fiction section.
There is more to indicate it is literal than that it is a legend. If after its kind is a fact, and it can be proven, what makes you think any other part is a legend? You just can't accept it is literal so you call it a legend with absolutely no proof.
kermit
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bhsmte
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The facts are it is not a reliable document and it was written by man who clearly only had the knowledge of that time.
More facts:
-no original copies of either the OT or NT are available
-we only have copies of the NT starting 200 years after Jesus lived
-Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were written 30-70 years after Jesus lived
-The four gospels above were not written by the same, but were penned by anonymous authors (no one knows who wrote them)
-No eye witness accounts in the gospels
-Stories were added to the NT, centuries later for effect
-at least half of the gospels attributed to Paul were not written by Paul, according to biblical scholars
-Boatloads of contradictions and errors are strife within the bible
Anyone who performs a review by reading the works of people who study the bible as a profession, would learn the same.
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frogman2x
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All raido-metric dating, with the possibility of carbon 14, is based on several assumtions, making the results unreliable
Can a process based on assumptions be accurate?
If it can't, you need to jump to the other side of the fence. You said you would but I doubt if you will.
kermit
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Oh? Several? And what are these several 'assumtions' that 'raido-metric' dating makes? And what about all the other forms of dating?
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KWCrazy
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What facts, exactly, are in the Bible? Let's look at a few. While I did not compile these, the reader is encouraged to use them. Also, I have seen the same evidences on different sites as well.
1. The earth free-floats in space (Job 26:7). While other religions declared the Earth sat on the back of an elephant, or was carried by a giant turtle, the Bible alone states what we now know to be true – “He hangs the earth on nothing.” How could ancient man have known this?....no other ancient culture stated this.
2. There are fountains/springs in the Oceans (Genesis 7:11, 8:2, Job 38:16, Proverbs 8:28). It would have been completely impossible for ancient man to have dove to the ocean floor.
3. Circumcision on the eighth day is ideal (Genesis 17:12; Leviticus 12:3; Luke 1:59). Medical science has discovered that on the eighth day, the blood clotting chemical prothrombin is elevated far above normal—and is the only day in the male’s life in which this will be the case under normal conditions. It also happens like clockwork in every normal healthy male baby. If surgery is to be performed, day eight is the safest day to do it, when Vitamin K and prothrombin levels are at their peak, as published by S.I. McMillen, M.D., in his book, None of These Diseases p.93, 1984.
4. Our bodies are made from the dust of the ground (Genesis 2:7; 3:19). Scientists have discovered that the human body is comprised of some 28 base and trace elements – all of which are found in the earth, namely, carbon.
5. Air has weight (Job 28:25). It was at one time not known that air has a weight to it Yet 3,000 years ago Job declared that there was "a weight for the wind.” In recent years, meteorologists have calculated that the average thunderstorm holds thousands of tons of rain. To carry this load, air must have mass. T
6. There are mountains on the bottom of the ocean (Jonah 2:5-6). It would have been completely impossible for ancient man to have known this as an absolute fact.
7. The universe had a beginning (Genesis 1:1; Hebrews 1:10-12). Starting with the studies of Albert Einstein in the early 1900s and continuing today, science has confirmed the Biblical view that the universe had a beginning. Science was at one time dominated by the theory of uniformitarianism, which stated that the universe is eternal, it has no beginning and no end.
8. Ocean currents (Psalm 8:8). Three thousand years ago the Bible described the “paths of the seas.” The first solid oceanography was not done until Louis Antoine de Bougainville sailed the South Pacific between 1766-1769.
9. Incalculable number of stars (Jeremiah 33:22). At a time when less than 10,000 stars were visible at any moment (and countable) to the naked eye, God stated that the stars of heaven were in fact innumerable. This had to be taken entirely on faith until the 17th century when Galileo glimpsed at the immensity of our universe with his new telescope.
10. The number of stars, though vast, are finite (Isaiah 40:26). Although man is unable to calculate the exact number of stars, we now know their number is finite. Of course God knew this all along – “He counts the number of the stars; He calls them all by name” (Psalm 147:4).
11. The Bible compares the number of stars with the number of grains of sand on the seashore (Genesis 22:17; Hebrews 11:12). Amazingly, gross estimates of the number of sand grains are comparable to the estimated number of stars in the universe.
12. Incest laws established (Leviticus 18:6). To marry near of kin in the ancient world was common. Yet, beginning about 1500 B.C., God forbade this practice. The reason is simple – the genetic mutations (resulting from the curse) had a cumulative effect. Though Cain could safely marry his sister because the genetic pool was still relatively pure at that time, by Moses’ day the genetic errors had swelled.
13. Scripture proves a revolving earth (Luke 17:34-36). Jesus said that at His return some would be in bed, at night, while others would be working in the field, or in the mill. It is obviously talking about daytime, since back then, as in today, people do not work in fields at night, and they did not mill at night either. This is a clear indication of a revolving earth, with day and night occurring simultaneously.
14. The universe is expanding (Job 9:8; Isaiah 42:5; Jeremiah 51:15; Zechariah 12:1). Repeatedly God declares that He stretches out the heavens. During the early 20th century, most scientists (including Einstein) believed the universe was static. Others believed it should have collapsed due to gravity. Then in 1929, astronomer Edwin Hubble showed that distant galaxies were receding from the earth, and the further away they were, the faster they were moving.
15. The Earth is round (Isaiah 40:22). At a time when many (but not all) thought the earth was flat, the Bible told us that the earth is circular. Many skeptics quarrel over the word "circle" and try to establish that "The Earth is a sphere not a circle!". However, this is nothing more than nitpicking.
16. The stars are much different from each other (1 Corinthians 15:41). Centuries before the advent of the telescope, the Bible declared what could not be discerned by the naked eye. To the naked eye, most stars appear pretty much the same, they are each actually much different from each other in size, color, intensity, and distance from the Earth.
source
It's not the things that are unclear in the Scriptures that people reject, but the things that are quite clear. It doesn't take a great deal of intelligence to know that a man cannot be raised from the dead after three days. It does, however, take a great deal of faith to accept that it happened.
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frogman2x
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That is pure nonsense and I bet you can't give me an example of a sissy fit a Christian has thrown unless you call challanging non-provable statement a sissy fit.
Most secular historians are pretty good, but the liberal Biblical historians are so biased their works is pathetic. If you doubt what I say, take a look at the "Jesus Seminar." They concluded that only 18% of what the Bible says Jesus said, Jesus actually said and they did not offer one shread of evidence.
The originantor made some rules for detemining if Jesus said it but he staqcked the deck to make it come out like he wanted.
That's right but that does not mean what they wrote is not true. God inspired the Bible and He told the writers what to write.
That is a cheap shot and you should be ashamed of yourself for malinging the integrity of conservative Bible scholars that you do not even know. That comment shows they have more integrity than you do.
FYI, they would give up their paycheck if they did not do an honest job in their exposition of the Bib le.
Do you have any evidence that the Bible is not God's inspired, inerrant and infallable word? No! You just like to insult people you disagree with. How sad.
kermit
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bhsmte
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I am not the one making the claim the bible is God's inspired, infallible word.
Those that do, don't want to hear about the; contradictions, errors, lost originals, unknown authors, added stories centuries later etc. etc. If God is who the bible explains him to be and he inspired a book that was directly attributed to him and was inerrant, than I understand the push back when these glaring issues are pointed out.
Why couldn't God assure his own book did not have so many errors, contradictions and doubts? Why couldn't he assure the originals were preserved, if the book was his word?
I never pointed out the Jesus seminar, you did and the historians and scholars I have studied were not involved in that seminar. In fact the scholars I have read have criticized the Jesus seminar and their methods.
Even conservative scholars have come around to admit the authors of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were unknown and they were written decades after Jesus lived. Even conservative scholars admit stories were added to the NT centuries later (women taken into adultery) and they were likely simply made up to add to Jesus' reputation.
I understand you don't care for an objective critique of the book, but it is what it is, when historical method and objective scholarship is applied to it.
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- Jan 10, 2010
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What groups claim to use no exegeses at all?
Does the translation process for the International Standard version (2011) involve any interpretation?
God is Spirit.
Though Jesus had hands.
Given that there is believed to be one writer, then the two chapters are not likely be " in disagreement!".
Can you show that the two chapters in the codified and translated text are from two different sources?
How many authors does the Bible have and over what time period was the Bible written?
Which miracles in the bible require high flying hoops to confirm them, and which ones are easy as pie to confirm without any hoops?
- Creation of the universe, including plants, animals and humans (Genesis 1-2)
- The destruction of the entire world by a divine Flood and the preservation of 8 righteous people and animals in the Ark. (Gen. 7, 8)
- View Flood and Babel movie sequence from The HOPE
- Confusion of languages (tongues) at Babel (Gen. 11:1-9)
- Destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah (Gen. 19:24)
- Lot's wife turned into a pillar of salt (Gen. 19:26)
- Birth of Isaac to 100 year old Abraham at Gerar (Gen. 21:1) / The elderly mother Sarah was also able to naturally nurse the baby. (Genesis 21:7)
- The burning bush not consumed (Ex. 3:3)
- Aaron's rod changed into a serpent (Ex. 7:10-12)
- The ten plagues of Egypt (Ex. 7:20-12:30)
- Water everywhere became BLOOD. The fish died, and the river stank. (Exodus 7:14-25
- God suddenly covered the land of Egypt with FROGS, and later supernaturally killed them, leaving them to make Egypt stink (Ex. 8:2-14; Ps. 78:45; 105:30)
- All the dust of the land became LICE throughout all the land of Egypt. (Exodus 8:17-18)
- God sent grievous swarms of FLIES upon all the people and houses of Egypt, covering even the ground, except in the land of Goshen (where the Israelites dwelled fly-free). (Exodus 8:20-24)
- MURRAIN suddenly killed Egypts cattle (Exodus 9:3-6)
- BOILS AND BLAINSThe sixth plague, of boils and blains, like the third, was sent without warning (Ex.9:8-12). It is called (Deut. 28:27) the botch of Egypt, King James Version; but in Revised Version, the boil of Egypt. The magicians could not stand before Moses because of it.
- HAIL WITH FIRE AND THUNDER (Ex. 9:13-33). Warning was given of its coming. (Compare Ps. 18:13; 105:32-33).
- LOCUSTSThe plague of locusts, which covered all of Egypt, so that the land was darkened with them (Ex. 10:12-15). The Hebrew name of this insect, arbeh, points to the multitudinous character of this visitation. Warning was given before this plague came. Again, the nearby land of Goshen was spared.
- LOCALIZED DEEP DARKNESSThe plague (the ninth) of darkness in Egypt (Ex. 10:21) is described as darkness which may be felt. It covered all the land of Egypt, so that they saw not one another. It did not extend to the land of Goshen (verse 23).
- DEATH of all first-bornstruck by an angel of death in a single night / Israelite first-borns spared, if blood was painted around their door.
- RED SEA DIVIDED at just the right moment; the nation of Israel passes through on DRY GROUND. The sea then violently consumes the Egyptian army. (See: Passage of Red Sea) (Ex. 14:21-31)
- Bitter waters of Marah sweetened (Ex. 15:23-25)
- MANNA sent daily to feed the Israelites, except on the Sabbath (Ex. 16:14-35)
- WATER from the rock at Rephidim (Ex. 17:5-7)
- Nadab and Abihu consumed for offering strange fire (Lev. 10:1-2)
- Complainers consumed by FIRE at Taberah / the destruction stopped in response to Moses prayer (Num. 11:1-3)
- The EARTH OPENS AND SWALLOWS Korah and his company. (Num. 16:32-34)
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