why do we have these threads?

[endure]

really...why?
becuase we know something?
becuase we are right? because weve learned the truth?
who cares about the truth, what about people?

how many people would join me in saying
"i posted so much not because i really cared for anyone, but becuase i was right and they were wrong?"

whats it all for anyway?
ive found out this place aint worth coming to if it isnt about serving and helping someone else, if being right about something is all its about...then i dont ever want to come here again, makes me sick.
wallowing in arrogance and self glorification.

why is it hard for me not to correct someone, becuase it wouldnt help them, even though i know there very wrong?
becuase either ive never cared enough them about to just be silent and see how to help them, rather than prove them wrong.
or im full of pride and consumed with myself and love to have people realise im smarter than they are.

who cares about the truth? what about people?
i mean who really cares, so what if your right.

im not saying forget the truth, but there comes a time in love for people, when you realise the truth can be told later, this person needs a diffrent kind of help.
and you realise that even if its true, it if isnt going to do any good for anyone then why do you have the right to waste their time?


i am very glad the purpose and vision of this place has always been PEOPLE though, and it is serving someone else, though i hope WE remember that.

like, its one thing to correct someone becuase they are wrong, and that sort of thing can last forever. those debates never end...

and another to correct someone out of a sorrow for that persons deception, and that wont last forever, becuase youll only say what matters, and if you see that it isnt changing anything and nothing can be done, then youll move on and not cause pointless problems with that person.
and if THE TRUTH....really is the point of your conversations. as soon as you see THE TRUTH wont come from it and isnt the other persons motive, you wont bother yourself with it.

i know this is my issue, anyone else feel this way?

 

[Apollo Rhetor]

I can't help but feel that you have me in mind with some of these words, because of what you said in another thread. You don't know me. My heart burns with sorrow for those deceived. I long to see them saved.

I come here to show others what I have learned, just as written words have persuaded men throughout all the ages (for example, the Bible). I also come here to test what I believe, so that if I am wrong, I have the widest spectrum of believers to correct me. What better way to test my beliefs than to voice them? If I remain silent, then I should always assume myself intelligent, because they will never be challenged. If I speak, and I am open to correction, then I will realise how little I know.

The only reason I speak so strongly against people like Benny Hinn is because I *personally* know others who trust him and are deceived by people like him. So I am very zealous, because I love them and hate to see them deceived. You may think this is a purely intellectual exercise, but it is not. I concern myself with understanding matters which are directly practical to my life.

 

[James Sez]

Thank you endure. I wish that ALL of us would reflect on our motives now and then. It seems that many of us (me included) are quick to post and slow to think.

One time I sent a PM a perosn who wrote a very harsh post and she said "I post so much that I forgot that I was posting to people rather then a computer".

God bless

 

[MariaRegina]

[Another poster said,] "I forgot that I was posting to people rather then a computer".

Is our world becoming less gentle and more unchristian because we cannot see the face behind the screen?

Is medicine becoming too impersonal because we have become numbers rather than unique persons who are scared of the medical procedures and the mistakes that doctors and nurses make?

Is that why, in these end times, the faith of many has grown cold?

 

[endure]

tyreth
i dont have YOU in mind, but yes speaking with you did stir this feeling in me.

you said your heart didnt burn for benny hinn, but for the people instead...
im not going to say much about how i doubt the truth of that, whether you realise you wrong or not.
but man, your heart should burn for him too.

im up for helping people with what i have been blessed to have, and entering fellowship with people so that i can learn.

what i am talking about though is that often times those 2 things become something very very diffrent.
helping people with what you know, becomes simply trying to show off what you know and prove that you know more.
and learning from peoples fellowship, becomes a heated and fiery debate.
we dont test what we know like we test swords agaisnt each others.
if it isnt meek gentle fellowship, its not Gods way.

its just that ive seen them turn to fights, people get mad, people get very emotional and override their thinking with emotion and an attempt to fight for their theology as if their theology was God. people refuse to let others have the last word... thats always pride.

fighting and contention is always pride anwyay.
people forget they are talking to people like one person said.
people think its a challenge, when it isnt... its not a fight, it ought to be sweet fellowship.
even our enemies, its not a fight, we lovingly instruct them and talk with them and boldly speak the truth with meekness, and if they dont heed, we dismiss them... but its not a fight.
becuase the man of God must never strive or fight.

if someone is wrong, you come with head low and wash their feet and do everything you can to make a diffrence in their life, you dont stand and simply declare to them their wrong when you know they wont receive it.
you have to bridle your tongue, if it doesnt bear fruit.... dont let it come out of your mouth.
no one has the right to waste the holy word.
and thats what people do when they insist on preaching to people that they know wont listen, they are preaching and causing anger not goodness, and doing it to please their own lusts, not to for the sake of the person.
there are people who the word of God will not convert.... but your love and way of life to them will.
1 peter 3.1

if none of that applied to you then thats awesome, but this is what im saying.

james sez
wow...i am so blessed that you came forward and said that brother.
thats so true... peope get so caught up in something like battle and they have to win it...
Godbless you.

chanter
yes i beleive it is, we get distracted by the truth that we christian ought to stand for the truth, distracted from the truth that the only reason we are to do that is for people, ALL people, even the person opposing that truth. and if we began to care and love for that other person... we wouldnt reply in such a way or say such things.

i remember one man, giving saying he thought it was kinda like us standing on the banks of a river, and people are drowning but we are busy fighting over some petty matter.
id rather go and help someone, than let them die becuase i needed to spend time studying to perfect my theology.
or maybe a young christian feels so oppressed and scrutinised by the christians he knows that the only thing he knows how to do is fight back and turn away from Jesus and christianity of those christians.

but man i love the verse from jude 22.
...have compassion, making a diffrence.

compassion ruling your words is what will allow yours words to make a diffrence.

Thankyou for your replies.
Godbless you.

 

[theseed]

how many people would join me in saying "i posted so much not because i really cared for anyone, but becuase i was right and they were wrong?"

I've only been on this forum for 3 days, and I already feel like this is a waste of time. For several reasons:

1) I post to prove somebody wrong, but from social psych. research, agruing and debating only reinforces the opinions of others

2) Billy Graham turned down the opportunity to debate, his career as a mass envanglist took off after that.

3)The bible tellls us to avoid vain "bablings" or arguments

4)I can learn the opinions and facts from others from other websites much more quickly than in a forum

5)Time spent in this forum could better be spent with God or talking to someone else

6)There are plenty of ministry opportunities in the real world.

7) People look at your reputation more than your words, hence explaining Billy Graham.

8) From my counseling studies, I know that most human misery is caused by someone trying to change someone else--William Glasser, founder of Reality Therapy. All we change is what we do. I don't recall Jesus ever trying to change people. He let the rich young ruler walk away.


If you would like to read my devotions, then go to www.freewebs.com/theseed

 

[ananar23]

theseed:
you had so many good points how could i argue? i cant and im physically nauseas due to the inability to argue over such petty things. Seriously though, you struck a chord. I dont try to argue, maybe sometimes i debate. I guess i dont know why i post here. sometimes i try and spread a little love; other times its in vain. good thread, somtimes we get caught up in things and dont ask "why?".
p.s i just looked at your site and really enjoyed volume 1, especially the first installment
God bless!!!!

 

[theseed]

theseed:
you had so many good points how could i argue? i cant and im physically nauseas due to the inability to argue over such petty things. Seriously though, you struck a chord. I dont try to argue, maybe sometimes i debate. I guess i dont know why i post here. sometimes i try and spread a little love; other times its in vain. good thread, somtimes we get caught up in things and dont ask "why?".
p.s i just looked at your site and really enjoyed volume 1, especially the first installment
God bless!!!!

Thanks. I like to debate to, but often ends up in a vicious and repetitive cycle. You, odds are, this forum attracts higly opininated and knowledgible individuals, who have already decided where they stand on the issues.

One in Christ, Wayne

 

[Hands&Feet]

I have found that the best thing to do in a debate is to offer your insight if you have it and, if neccessary, explain it in a post or 2. If the people you are debating ar not at least considering what you are bringing to the table, it is time to move on.

Sometimes it is better to just ask questions regarding someone's position that differs from your own. That often helps them to draw the right conclusion better than debating can. It at least makes them think, which seldom happens in the heat of debate.

The best part of these forums is learning and helping. I don't mean helping someone to buy your theological viewpoints, but helping them by bringing comfort, prayers, and inspiration to them. There are plenty of searching people on here--people who are earnestly looking for hope. I am glad I've stumbled upon it.

 

[James Sez]

I've only been on this forum for 3 days, and I already feel like this is a waste of time. For several reasons:

1) I post to prove somebody wrong, but from social psych. research, agruing and debating only reinforces the opinions of others

2) Billy Graham turned down the opportunity to debate, his career as a mass envanglist took off after that.

3)The bible tellls us to avoid vain "bablings" or arguments

4)I can learn the opinions and facts from others from other websites much more quickly than in a forum

5)Time spent in this forum could better be spent with God or talking to someone else

6)There are plenty of ministry opportunities in the real world.

7) People look at your reputation more than your words, hence explaining Billy Graham.

8) From my counseling studies, I know that most human misery is caused by someone trying to change someone else--William Glasser, founder of Reality Therapy. All we change is what we do. I don't recall Jesus ever trying to change people. He let the rich young ruler walk away.

CF is not for everybody. I have leaned a lot here and I could care less about my reputation or that of others. CF is more than debate. There are areas where folks support, encourage, and pray for each other. I have met some cool friends here. BTW, people do change opinions and attitudes-some do grow more stubborn but others soften up a bit. Great things can happen when you have an open heart. Great things don't happen when you feel you are superior to everyone else.

 

[Preachers12]

Theseed, Peace be with you.

Welcome to CF.

If you came here to "debate," then you may consider seeking someone with whom to do so in IDD in the proper forum (which you may have done - I did not look). Debate does serve a wonderful purpose, so long as the hearts are open and the prides are closed.

Many come here not to debate, but to learn. To ask questions and evaluate responses. Others come to share, to pray together, to socialize, etc.... The point is, there is a place for everyone. I personally dislike the term "debate" as I think it puts more emphasis on the players than the message. I prefer discussion. True discussion. Which is done in love, respect, prayerfully and with an open heart. Unfortunately, this is not something easily done and rarely seen.

I have learned much about other faiths through this board. I have also learned much about my own faith and have grown in my faith. I can't speak to the other religions represented here, but you are welcome to bring up issues on OBOB that you may seek to understand better. You can't "debate" there, but you can surely learn.

God Bless,
P12

 

[ananar23]

I come here for positive reasons, but it seems i find debate. Everywhere I look there is debating, and it is not restricted to the debating forum. It is really hard not to get sucked into that mindset. I guess we just have to tell ourselves to not strive to please men, but Jesus. State your case and move on i guess. Anyway, i do like these forums because i like to interact with Christians and hey, i like to let the non believers know that i love all people. but when i did that i was scolded....bigtime. im putting my sign up again

 

[theseed]

I come here for positive reasons, but it seems i find debate. Everywhere I look there is debating, and it is not restricted to the debating forum. It is really hard not to get sucked into that mindset. I guess we just have to tell ourselves to not strive to please men, but Jesus. State your case and move on i guess. Anyway, i do like these forums because i like to interact with Christians and hey, i like to let the non believers know that i love all people. but when i did that i was scolded....bigtime. im putting my sign up again

One way to avoid agruing, is to say something along the lines of "I see you feel very strong about that", especially if they are sidetracking you, off the main discussion. It works in counseling sessions when a client whats to change the subject and argue. Counselors never produce change in people by arguing. They simply have to wait until the client wants it. Or in my case the student. I'm studying to be a school counselor (pre-k through 12), and plan to work with elementary kids.

 

[ananar23]

Hmmm, I see the logic behind that seed. i shall attempt it next time....maybe, if my futile mind allows it that is.
so you dont think the "i love you all, dont be angry" bit works? you may be right, that is when the hand lashing came.
hmmm

God bless!!!

 

[theseed]

Thanks for the Blessings. Now, I can have my own Avatar (thats a wierd word lol). As for the "love you all bit", its hard to predict what people will doe somethimes. That's why there is so much research and so many theries in psychology. I think its best to show your love, by complimenting others, affirming others, and validiting others before disagring with them. That way you capture your audiance, then with gentleness, explain why you disagree. This, I think, will work best in the long run. What you do will bring others to Christ faster than what you say.

"And now I show you the most excellant way...love" 1 Corinthians 13.

 

[endure]

good to see so much talking going on here.
thanks for replying to my post.

i think the heart of it is that people are constantly seeking out oppurtunities to be looked at and watched, like a person who feels insecure if they sit in a group conversation and never say anything themselves. i know it may seem like a self esteem problem, but its truely pride.

thats what it is, its just pride.
like solomon said that only from pride comes contention.
if we were a humble people, there would be no fighting amoungst ourselves or any of that.

 

[Ken]

hi all... great thread...

to seed in particular, you said

From my counseling studies, I know that most human misery is caused by someone trying to change someone else--William Glasser, founder of Reality Therapy. All we change is what we do. I don't recall Jesus ever trying to change people. He let the rich young ruler walk away.

I really do not think that this is true, or rather and more important, biblical. Jesus worked long and hard to evoke change in His disciples, and perhaps less so, in the lives of those around Him. He wanted them to change their lives, and He did this by changing their beliefs, about who He was, and about how to live a life that is pleasing to God. Jesus did try to change people, that is what His ministry was and is all about, for people to not remain in their sins, rather, He wanted people to change their belief, to not believing in God or Himself, to saving belief, and to live lives pleasing to God.

(Luke 8:21 NNAS) But He answered and said to them, "My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it."

(John 10:37-38 NNAS) "If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; {38} but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father."


An even better, and perhaps clearer example, is the great Apostle to the Gentiles, Paul often spent a lot of time with people, trying to change their minds. Here are some examples.

(Acts 17:1-4 NNAS) Now when they had traveled through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue of the Jews. {2} And according to Paul's custom, he went to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures, {3} explaining and giving evidence that the Christ had to suffer and rise again from the dead, and saying, "This Jesus whom I am proclaiming to you is the Christ." {4} And some of them were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, along with a large number of the God-fearing Greeks and a number of the leading women.

(Acts 17:17 NNAS) So he was reasoning in the synagogue with the Jews and the God-fearing Gentiles, and in the market place every day with those who happened to be present.

(Acts 18:8-11 NNAS) Crispus, the leader of the synagogue, believed in the Lord with all his household, and many of the Corinthians when they heard were believing and being baptized. {9} And the Lord said to Paul in the night by a vision, "Do not be afraid any longer, but go on speaking and do not be silent; {10} for I am with you, and no man will attack you in order to harm you, for I have many people in this city." {11} And he settled there a year and six months, teaching the word of God among them.

(Col 1:28 NNAS) We proclaim Him, admonishing every man and teaching every man with all wisdom, so that we may present every man complete in Christ.

(1 Th 2:13 NNAS) For this reason we also constantly thank God that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men, but for what it really is, the word of God, which also performs its work in you who believe.

etc etc

so no offence, but I encourage you to not get your method or reasons to evangelize from Glasser, or any secular sources for that matter...... unless these sources happen to agree with the Bible, or, at the very least, do not directly go against the Bible's message. You see, the Bible itself claims to be, along with the power of the Holy Spirit, an awesome instrument to evoke change in behavior and belief.

(Heb 4:12 NNAS) For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

(Heb 13:7 NNAS) Remember those who led you, who spoke the word of God to you; and considering the result of their conduct, imitate their faith.

(1 Pet 1:22-23 NNAS) Since you have in obedience to the truth purified your souls for a sincere love of the brethren, fervently love one another from the heart, {23} for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God.

In fact, the Word of God itself comes to us, and indeed the whole world, in order to change it, by the power of the Holy Spirit. This is not to say that in some cases we ought not simply proclaim the Word of God, and, if it is not received, to shake the sand from our Nike's, and walk away, so as to not cast pearls before swine. But certainly, as is shown above, this is not something we do in each and every case. There is a time and a place for a sustained reasoned defense of the Gospel message. This is why Peter could write:

(1 Pet 3:15 NNAS) but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence; This is what Apologetics is all about, and engaging in this activity we accomplish numerous things; one is to positively convince the unbeliever of the reasonableness and truthfulness of belief in God, second is to negatively remove excuses from the unbelievers arsenal of self deception, third is to actually harden those who reject the message, and fourth, to encourage and strengthen the faith of the believer.... PS, I say all this aware of the world and jargon of Counseling and Psychology, having a degree in Counseling, and am just short of a Master’s Degree…. In all this I have found that the counseling style of Larry Crabb or Jay Adams are much more in line with the teachings of the Bible….. Blessings

 

[endure]

yeah
its just theres only so much that you can do, ya know?
and some people, keep talking even when it is evident that the person is not going to change and it is also evident people are just getting angry.
and i think that is very wrong, its like taking the holy word of God and wasting it.
some people continue to talk, when their is no purpose to be found except their own approval and glory, and that is very wrong.

but like solomon said, only a fool rebukes a fool lest he hate you, and we ought to not desire anyone to hate us becuase that brings up walls, and then the man may never be changed. but when we are ok with that and continue to talk to them and strive with them, its only for our own selfish glory and lust.

and it think its like paul said, that one man sows and another man reaps, BUT GOD BRINGS THE INCREASE.
WE, DONT CHANGE PEOPLE..... only God's blessing on what we do and causing it to bear fruit allows us to even have a hand in people being changed and born again.

and like Jesus said not to cast your pearls before swine, their are some people who you really need to not try to change. i think there are some people you really just need to distance yourself from, lest you become too involved and become corrupted yourself, whether that corruption is anger or whatever.
i know in the books of the minor prophets, i think it was in micah, but in one place God told the prophets to not speak.

oh... it went like this sorry.
micah 2.6
prophsey ye not, say they to them that prophesy: they shall not prophesy to them, that they shall not take shame.

ya know, sometimes when a person doesnt want to you speak to them and pushes you away, it will come to your own shame if you speak anyway.

i know we dont really disagree, but ya know what im saying?