Why Do We Get Onto the Rich About Taxes?

[jaybird88]

So because the people who lived beside you smoke and drink beer, that means the entire lower or lower middle class is blowing all of their paycheques.

And while I agree with you that smoking is a terrible choice both healthwise and financially, how sad is it that people can't afford to retire if they want to buy a pack of smokes or a case of beer? The idea would have been absurd a couple decades ago when a one decent income was typically enough to buy a house and retire at age 65 without much of a problem.

... and almost everyone smoked, and drinking was generally heavier than it is today.

i agree with you, just wanted to add that many dont think that these poor people that spend money on beer and smokes most likely didnt start that way. many of them have literally had to start over several times and each time have to start over with nothing. i can see how one could lose their mind and just not care anymore.

 

[Aldebaran]

And while I agree with you that smoking is a terrible choice both healthwise and financially, how sad is it that people can't afford to retire if they want to buy a pack of smokes or a case of beer? The idea would have been absurd a couple decades ago when a one decent income was typically enough to buy a house and retire at age 65 without much of a problem.

... and almost everyone smoked, and drinking was generally heavier than it is today.

I was simply referring to the fact that those on the lower end of the financial scale are the ones who are also making the worst choices. It seems that the two go hand in hand. Just think about it: A pack of cigarettes a day at $6 per pack. Every year, that's $1,825 every year. They could give themselves that much of a "tax break", plus improve their health and mood simply by quitting. Every 10 years, they'd have enough to buy a new car with that money, yet currently complain they don't even have enough for gas.
Like I said, it keeps coming back to being a matter of choices.

 

[Dave Ellis]

I was simply referring to the fact that those on the lower end of the financial scale are the ones who are also making the worst choices.

Nonsense. The fact you don't have a high disposable income doesn't mean you make the worst choices. There are some smart people who never had the money or opportunity to go to college. Or, they previously had good work, lost their jobs and there's no good paying available jobs in their area.

There are TONS of people who fit into that mould. The lower and lower middle class aren't all made up of deadbeat losers who don't want to work. A significant percentage of them are made up of people who work their butts off, but have low paying jobs, or are out of work through no fault of their own.

You're buying in to a stereotype that simply isn't real.

It seems that the two go hand in hand. Just think about it: A pack of cigarettes a day at $6 per pack. Every year, that's $1,825 every year. They could give themselves that much of a "tax break", plus improve their health and mood simply by quitting. Every 10 years, they'd have enough to buy a new car with that money, yet currently complain they don't even have enough for gas.
Like I said, it keeps coming back to being a matter of choices.

I acknowledge smoking is a waste of money. However, using your logic, why not live with 10 people in a single bedroom apartment and live off nothing but bread and water. Think about how much money you could save then!

It comes down to a quality of life. Poor people need some enjoyment in life as well, and if it means they get to enjoy a beer after work, what's the problem with that?

Again, if the ability to retire or not depends on expenses like that, there's something seriously wrong with wealth distribution in your country.

 

[Aldebaran]

Nonsense. The fact you don't have a high disposable income doesn't mean you make the worst choices. There are some smart people who never had the money or opportunity to go to college. Or, they previously had good work, lost their jobs and there's no good paying available jobs in their area.

There are TONS of people who fit into that mould. The lower and lower middle class aren't all made up of deadbeat losers who don't want to work. A significant percentage of them are made up of people who work their butts off, but have low paying jobs, or are out of work through no fault of their own.

You're buying in to a stereotype that simply isn't real.

Not the argument I was making. I was simply pointing out that it's mostly the lower class that make those choices while they are the least able to bear the burden of them.

I acknowledge smoking is a waste of money. However, using your logic, why not live with 10 people in a single bedroom apartment and live off nothing but bread and water. Think about how much money you could save then!

Some people would make that choice if their goal is to save money for a future need.

It comes down to a quality of life. Poor people need some enjoyment in life as well, and if it means they get to enjoy a beer after work, what's the problem with that?

They "get to" do that if they can afford it. If they can't, then they shouldn't. But to do it anyway and then sit at the bar with their beer and cigarette complaining that they don't have any money and that rich people need to pay more isn't going to solve their own financial issues.

For the record, I have low income. I figure out ways to save money, and therefore am able to get by on what most people would consider to be "poverty income". I've chosen to spend less on things that I don't need and focus on the things I do need.

 

[jaybird88]

interesting when we look at these choices the rich and poor make. the poor make bad choices and they hurt themselves, the rich make bad choices and they hurt the world. more than 100 million people died in wars in the 20th century, the choice to go to war is always made by the rich, the poor never have a say in it, all they do is fight the wars that get started by the rich. the rich get richer off the war and the best that a poor person can benefit is to come home alive.
another interesting observation is all these 3rd world "underdeveloped" countries. why are they so underdeveloped, they were actually developing just fine until the empire countries come along and then their progress stops. its pretty obvious we keep most of these countries dirt poor, but the thought of us keeping our own poor people poor, thats just crazy talk.

 

[Dave Ellis]

Not the argument I was making. I was simply pointing out that it's mostly the lower class that make those choices while they are the least able to bear the burden of them.

What's the difference between having little disposable income and being lower class? Sure, you could make an argument that a multimillionaire has so many bills that he can't afford a pack of smokes, but examples like that are incredibly small.

Some people would make that choice if their goal is to save money for a future need.

And if someone has smoked when they were employed and making a good living, then lost their job due to their business shutting down or relocating? Not many people can stop smoking at will, it takes some people a very long time even if they want to quit.

They "get to" do that if they can afford it. If they can't, then they shouldn't. But to do it anyway and then sit at the bar with their beer and cigarette complaining that they don't have any money and that rich people need to pay more isn't going to solve their own financial issues.

For the record, I have low income. I figure out ways to save money, and therefore am able to get by on what most people would consider to be "poverty income". I've chosen to spend less on things that I don't need and focus on the things I do need.

I once didn't have a lot of money on hand, however I'm now making enough that I'm essentially debt free and starting to save to buy a house or condo within the next couple years.

I don't disagree with you that those people that don't have much money should budget wisely, the problem is however that the lower class is not making enough money in general, when the money is there in the economy to provide them far better wages.